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Author Topic: Selfcharging cap circuit from Larskro fake or real ?  (Read 60794 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Selfcharging cap circuit from Larskro fake or real ?
« Reply #45 on: May 26, 2014, 01:25:43 AM »
Hi Hoppy,

But it is much younger, only 35 years old because the first number you see as 1 in the 1942 is in fact 7, so it is 7942.  And this means that the first two numbers, 79, represent the last two numbers of the manufacture year i.e. 1979 and the 42 means the week number in that year.

So this reed relay may have many years to live unless Tinsel abuses it which is not likely...    8)

By the way, Larskro uploaded another video, stating there is no battery: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UI_EfWRepIQ

Gyula

Heh...this service is by definition "abuse" for that little relay. It's wired as a vibrator/bell ringer kind of thing and "sings" at 8kHz or something ridiculous, a highpitched whine, and louder than any JT I have. It is already starting to fail, I think. Each second of operation opens and closes the contacts 8 thousand times!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline conradelektro

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Re: Selfcharging cap circuit from Larskro fake or real ?
« Reply #46 on: May 26, 2014, 10:52:02 AM »
I do not understand how the rotor can turn?

The rotor is in parallel with the coil (not in front of it)?

Greetings, Conrad

Offline Hoppy

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Re: Selfcharging cap circuit from Larskro fake or real ?
« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2014, 10:56:09 AM »
I do not understand how the rotor can turn?

The rotor is in parallel with the coil (not in front of it)?

Greetings, Conrad

Through gears?

Edit: On second thoughts, the motor is centrally aligned with the coils, so no gears. It could be working on the Newman Motor principle? Thus extremely low current working with split high turn coils.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2014, 01:02:29 PM by Hoppy »

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Re: Selfcharging cap circuit from Larskro fake or real ?
« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2014, 10:56:09 AM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Selfcharging cap circuit from Larskro fake or real ?
« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2014, 02:53:01 PM »
I do not understand how the rotor can turn?

The rotor is in parallel with the coil (not in front of it)?

Greetings, Conrad

Hi Conrad,

Larskro wrote under his first video text ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ln3YVVZbpNo ) that he uses a "motor/gen from a tap-water led light unit".
You surely heard about LED showers where a micro generator is built into the head of a bathroom shower and when using the shower the water pressure rotates the rotor of the generator and there are several LEDs with different colors illuminating the water beams etc.

I found a very similar looking such micro/mini generator at this link:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/water-glow-mini-generator-for-led_361359743.html   

EDIT: I found a mini wind turbine version too: http://easy-taobao.com/taobao/view/id/7844125183

I think the rotor includes permanent magnets only and water pressure turns this rotor, so the induced power in the stator windings can feed the LEDs. Most such mini generators are specified (as I read elsewhere) to give about 5V and 30mA to 100mA current (here is another type: http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/micro-generator-for-led-shower_361352069.html )

So it is very possible that such generator can work as a motor too, when the stator coils are fed with AC current, in this case pulsed AC due to the reed switch.

So to answer your 2nd question, the coil is the stator coil, and the rotor I think consists of permanent magnet(s) only. He charges up the 0.47F supercap to 1.6V first, then he starts rotating the rotor by his finger and the reed switch starts its ON/OFF sequence and the Schottky diode is supposed to raise the voltage level of the supercap above 3.4V and higher...

Because Groundloop and TinselKoala schematics seems correct, it means that the diode rectifies the AC voltage generated in the stator coils by the normal rotation of the rotor magnets (and not the spikes from the collapsing fields), this AC voltage is chopped of course but its level seems to be enough for continuously charging the supercap and increase its voltage level...

There is this notice under his video from Larskro: "...the little capacitor is a multilayer nanocrystal 0,47uF 25volt, very important."

Why it is important?  Only he knows... but Stefan figured that it may convert ambient heat to electricity as Stefan wrote in the previous page.  Larskro measured the multilayer cap temperature 1°C lower than the ambient, I guess it is a very small temperature difference to give the needed amount of energy for the selfrunning operation, it would be really amazing to be true.  Unless this whole setup is faked, the operation of the ceramic multilayer chip capacitor could be the source of some extra energy...

Gyula

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Selfcharging cap circuit from Larskro fake or real ?
« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2014, 04:08:39 PM »
Hi Gyula,
well done summary.

The temperature dependance from Z5U and Y5V ceramic caps and how the voltage can be raised has already been here presented. I did this test a few years ago in 2011:
http://www.overunity.com/9878/captret-capacitor-and-electret/msg271991/#msg271991
 New would be to get a constant charge via voltage pulsing, as these caps are pretty nonlinear I guess there could be an absorption from environmental heat to electrcity inside the dielektrikum due to these pulsing and thus convert heat to electrical energy....

You can see there also in this old thread a picture of my caps and my scope with the voltage it produced when heated up...
and also a chart of the differentcapacitor dielektrikum temperature parameters..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Selfcharging cap circuit from Larskro fake or real ?
« Reply #49 on: May 26, 2014, 04:08:39 PM »
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Offline conradelektro

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Re: Selfcharging cap circuit from Larskro fake or real ?
« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2014, 04:22:49 PM »
@Gyula: thank you for the explanation. I did not know these little generators, nice toys.

My mistake was to see the little turning bar or cross as the magnet. But the magnet is inside the coil and the turning thing on the outside has no function besides indicating the position of the magnet inside the coil.

This little generator can be driven as a motor, I agree.

The multilayer nanocrystal 0,47uF 25volt capacitor could be faster than the super cap when absorbing the back EMF spikes. Then the current is more slowly dissipating into the super cap.

The strange fact in the video is that Larskro is not showing how high the super cap would charge. It should eventually self destruct. If it really was an OU machine it would need a Zener diode to syphon off the over charge from the super cap (e.g. at 4 Volt).

Or it is genuine miracle? Larskro is radiating energy into the circuit by his will power. May be he is blowing a little air jet at the rotor to make it move?

Greetings, Conrad

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Re: Selfcharging cap circuit from Larskro fake or real ?
« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2014, 04:22:49 PM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Selfcharging cap circuit from Larskro fake or real ?
« Reply #52 on: May 26, 2014, 04:23:59 PM »
You should also study Dielectric Absorption
and nonlinear Permittivity

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_absorption

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permittivity

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Selfcharging cap circuit from Larskro fake or real ?
« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2014, 04:48:23 PM »
Larskro just published Video 4 :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jmG-MaijNv0


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Re: Selfcharging cap circuit from Larskro fake or real ?
« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2014, 04:48:23 PM »
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Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Selfcharging cap circuit from Larskro fake or real ?
« Reply #54 on: May 26, 2014, 04:56:05 PM »
Seems to be a demonstration of the water faucet generator he is using.  He left a comment saying that he will be uploading parts 5,6,7 soon so maybe we can tell something from them?

Bill

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Selfcharging cap circuit from Larskro fake or real ?
« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2014, 05:35:46 PM »
Hi Conrad,

Quote
But the magnet is inside the coil and the turning thing on the outside has no function besides indicating the position of the magnet inside the coil.


The "turning thing on the outside" may hold small timing magnets (not shown) to control the reed switch I would guess but maybe there are no such magnets and in this case the main rotor magnets inside the generator should be able to control the reed.

Quote
The strange fact in the video is that Larskro is not showing how high the super cap would charge. It should eventually self destruct.

Yes I agree and when Stefan asked how long the setup would run, Larskro answered: 

"Until I stop it with my finger. Yes, it slowly get faster when the voltage climbs." 

Also, at the end of his 1st part video, the LED started to emit a very, very tiny amount of light as the voltage went up to 3.66V or so. LEDs can behave as good voltage limiters like Zeners.

Whether his will power or a hidden battery or air jet runs the setup, probably will turn out in a few days if he discloses further details and videos.

Gyula

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Re: Selfcharging cap circuit from Larskro fake or real ?
« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2014, 05:35:46 PM »
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Offline Hoppy

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Re: Selfcharging cap circuit from Larskro fake or real ?
« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2014, 06:58:51 PM »
The key factors here IMO are dielectric absorption as highlighted by Stefan and demonstrated by TK and a very low current pulse motor / generator of the Newman type.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Selfcharging cap circuit from Larskro fake or real ?
« Reply #57 on: May 26, 2014, 10:35:28 PM »
The diode is reverse-biased to the DC voltage from the capacitor and keeps DC current out of the motor coil. In the "loop on" switch position, when the reed switch closes it shorts this diode and allows power to reach the coil. When the reed opens the diode is unshorted and this turns the coil off.
In the "loop off" switch position, the reed switch is just switching the DC input power to the coil directly and caps/LEDs thru the now-fwd biased diode, and the diode is in the right polarity to send the motor coil's collapse spike into the capacitor/LED stack.

Offline gyulasun

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Re: Selfcharging cap circuit from Larskro fake or real ?
« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2014, 12:42:12 AM »
Hi TinselKoala,

Thanks for explaining the operation, I wrote this to Conrad a bit differently, I did not consider that the reed switch shorts out the diode in the "loop on" position.
Do you think that when the reed switch is off (still in the "loop on" switch position), then the diode does not (half-wave) rectify the AC voltage induced in the coil by the moving rotor magnet(s), provided the induced positive peak amplitude is higher than the DC level in the supercapacitor (plus the diode forward voltage of course)?
Because in these instances current could flow from the coil via the diode to charge the supercapacitor. Of course the timing of the reed switch is critical even if the induced AC voltage could not be higher (by whatever reason) during the off time of the reed than the DC level of the supercapacitor (plus the forward diode drop).

In the "loop off" switch position I 'blindly' accepted someone's remark that the diode blocks the coil's collapse spike from the supercapacitor... my bad.

Nevertheless, It would be good to see some scope shots on Larskro's setup for sure.

Thanks, Gyula

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Selfcharging cap circuit from Larskro fake or real ?
« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2014, 04:51:27 AM »
I'm not sure but I think that the thing probably never actually sees AC from the motor coils, except in the sense of the inductive ringing. I think it's operating as a quasi-synchronous pulse motor. So the coil is pulsed once, briefly, during one half of the rotation and coasts the rest of the time. There will be some generator effect during the coasting probably but I can't quite wrap my head around it without actually having a working apparatus in front of me.

I tried another micro relay, had it all wired in, only to discover that it, too, has a diode across the coil. So I'm going to have to build my own little motor I guess. And dig up a plain reed switch from somewhere. Although I have been playing around with a Hall effect sensor; maybe I can get that to substitute for a reed switch.



 

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