I just had an idea for a non-nanotech battery.
Sorry, I don't immediately visualize these ion systems / leakage systems.

Use semiconductor silicon slabs cut from a boule as the base metal for a battery.
Could use either acidic or basic electrolyte.

a) deposit anode and cathode material as slightly overlaping stripes all the way across
the silicon slabs. This will form the series cell voltage area.

b) manufacturer can form a silicon dioxide layer = glass insulator and electrolyte rejection.
     (Semiconductor industry uses Fluoric acid to etch silicon dioxide off.)

c) manufacturer could also "radiate-inject" dopant metal ions into the silicon slab to turn areas
into N and P diode regions if you need to bias the base metal silicon on or off, if that will protect
it from corrossion. (You could artificially bias it with a voltage doubler if more is required.)
 
d) attach to a radial support structure as shown in the original Karpens Cell.

e) shove the above structure into a glass tube add electrolyte and seal.

....One may be able to do a glass-mat battery with above, glass proof of product
them move to available poly- plastic containers. If one needs to do depolarization
electronics for cell one could use use modified "lithium battery" like top compartments.

Interested in plating cost per square area, power per 1/2 square area.
Cautions about 2Lot thermal energy generators apply.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Thank you mscoffman.


Here is an update, this morning I found the silver electrode behaving sluggishly.  It was not recovering to the 800mv mark in the 60 seconds any more, but more around the 600 mark, and the discharge was reading a lot lower, about 400uA.  The electrolyte had floating bits and was darker.  Even bubbling hydrogen had little effect.

The Pt/Pd still behaved well so it is the silver that is playing up.

I cleaned up the cell with fresh KOH, cathodized the Pd/Pt and anodized/cathodized the silver but still results are not the best. It looks like the silver needs to be cleaned up in nitric acid for it to work well again...  While we ponder on this problem I set up the cell with the graphite electrode instead, anodized and cathodized as before. Now it works well, check out the constant 400uA and 40mV across the 100 ohm +15 of the meter, no need to pulse discharge this one!.  Whats going on, surely the graphite must have a metal oxide contamination on the surface, but then again, the hydrogen gas in the solution should reduce it ?  Check the link..

http://youtu.be/ezOAP8Ady78

The graphite behavior is interesting.  Is it possible to leave it running for an extended period of time to see if it is decaying albeit slowly?

Quite a few possibilities here pomodoro.you said electrolyte was darkish,means palladium particles expanded and dislodged or silver particles dislodged.electroplating must be tight-tight. It could also mean air was creeping in from a leak and discharged the cell.

The graphite anomaly has been solved.  I wonder if anyone here can solve it too, it has to do with the apparatus I set up not being perfect. its actually a big problem when studying this hydrogen powered  karpen, especially because the hydrogen on the Pd/Pt will reduce anything it can over at the cathode electrode, and it means I have to run the silver again.

When you went to the graphite did you start with a fresh batch of KOH?

Is your graphite dewaxed??

Is that pure hydrogen.traces of H2S will fuck things up.

The gas bubbler is a little too long and touches the bottom of the flask, hence the fit around the neck is not quite tight. I assumed that since the flow of hydrogen was quite high for the graphite, that no way anything would sneak in, after all when nitrogen is used nothing does. But the tiniest amount of oxygen does sneak in, hence the continuous current.  Even the smallest trace gives a current!  This is not all that obvious with silver but graphite loves to attract oxygen somehow.

The overnight silver problem may not be the same because I used a different attachment that just passed hydrogen on top of the solution. Flow was low but I'm not sure if O2 could have snuck in.  The silver didn't look like it had any of the dark sulfide coating. Most of the floaters were white in color.

And the hydrogen is not UHP but industrial. It was going to cost me too much for the UHP. So it might have traces of oxygen.  Even the UHP can sometimes have impurities as I found out years ago.


So the next cell will need to be different. Much,,much smaller,  with hydrogen generated by electrolysis in situ, the oxygen generated elsewhere, and high vacuum silicone grease with ground glass joints used. No permanent melted glass for now as I need to take it apart for further tests.

I dont consider the week a waste, but it shows how many amateur scientists can screw up very, very easily, especially when just a trace of a substance can have a massive impact.