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Author Topic: KARPEN PILE  (Read 164236 times)

Offline pomodoro

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #390 on: August 08, 2014, 02:30:34 PM »
Not true, the rest potential of silver in alkaline solution in a hydrogen atmosphere was found to be only 4.6mv different to a pt   in the same solution.

http://eprints.lib.hokudai.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/2115/24795/1/13(2)_P77-101.pdf

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #390 on: August 08, 2014, 02:30:34 PM »

Offline MarkE

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #391 on: August 08, 2014, 03:44:57 PM »
It looks like I will have to put up a demo myself
Attempting to back your own claims has always been a good idea.

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #392 on: August 08, 2014, 09:51:23 PM »
Pomodoro,I'm going to ask if you can do us(all) one last favour.can you please measure the potential difference between palladium and the legendry MERCURY,king of overpotentials(O.8v +)under hydrogen gas in 1M caustic soda and report your result here for us.

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #392 on: August 08, 2014, 09:51:23 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline pomodoro

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #393 on: August 09, 2014, 02:57:19 AM »
I've already done that when I dipped the copper electrode in mercury and painted it till it was shiny with hg. It was not high.  I have to look at the book at work and  will also do it again on a video next week instead of doing graphite again. Then I'm packing up. Thing is profitis the hydrogen overpotential in books is what is required in electrolysis mode to generate hydrogen on that metal compared to a Pt in same solution.  It doesn't predict the electrode rest potential one bit.
I'm disappointed the experiment failed for me but it shouldn't stop other keen discoverers doing their own tinkering.

Offline MarkE

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #394 on: August 09, 2014, 04:14:05 AM »
Pomodoro thanks again for all the time and money you have put into testing out Profitis' ideas.  I think that you have gone above and beyond with your efforts.  Despite the negative results, well conducted experiments like yours are useful demonstrations of the care that it takes to conduct a good experiment.

If Profitis wishes to challenge your results, then I think he is going to have to come up with those text book references that he has long claimed back his contentions, and/or conduct defensible experiments such as you have, but which generate results consistent with rather than contradictory to his claims.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #394 on: August 09, 2014, 04:14:05 AM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #395 on: August 09, 2014, 06:12:39 AM »
Thanks pomodoro.you want to literally try liquid mercury in a pool at bottom of flask,one strand thin mercurized(by dipping in Hg(NO3)2 aq.) copper wire in contact with it.mercury has such a high overpotential for H2 that even at current densities of less than 0.0001A its voltage is around 0.6-0.9 according to textbooks so it looks a highly promising candidate.graphiteis a must-try too for 2 reasons,it has also quite a monster overpotential at minute current densities and according to wikipedias list a very large ACTIVATION OVERPOTENTIAL.graphite is also infact more chemically inert than our metal counterparts.

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #396 on: August 09, 2014, 06:36:46 AM »
I find it impossible for every single known inert material to register the same voltage as the standard hydrogen electrode,otherwise they wouldve used any material as opposed to platinum(black) for all standard reference measurements.many labs around the world have already measured the classic platinum black vs platinum shiny hydrogen rest potential and it is absolutely not the same,and that's both made of the same material(!)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #396 on: August 09, 2014, 06:36:46 AM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #397 on: August 09, 2014, 06:53:58 AM »
The details of karpens hydrogen experiments seem to be very hard to track down on the net and I would appreciate it if anybody can locate those papers.piles a hydrogene empruntant leur energie au milieu ambiant.Acad de Sci,paris 1948 t.218 p.228.  Also piles a oxygene empruntant leur energie au milieu ambiant.Acad de sci,paris 1944 t.226 p.1273

Offline pomodoro

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #398 on: August 09, 2014, 06:43:53 PM »
Pomodoro thanks again for all the time and money you have put into testing out Profitis' ideas.  I think that you have gone above and beyond with your efforts.  Despite the negative results, well conducted experiments like yours are useful demonstrations of the care that it takes to conduct a good experiment.

If Profitis wishes to challenge your results, then I think he is going to have to come up with those text book references that he has long claimed back his contentions, and/or conduct defensible experiments such as you have, but which generate results consistent with rather than contradictory to his claims.

Thanks for your kind words MarkE.
I've worked as a chemist for 24 years but I am not an expert electrochemist.  Now let me admit that electrochemistry upto 3rd year university level is about where it stops for me.  Any more , such as some of the heavy stuff in the paper I posted is above my level of understanding. It would take a person with a phD in electrochemistry to really understand every aspect of such research.

Although a scientist I do occasionally look an non conventional theories with an open mind. The Karpen pile popped up on some random google search and I took a liking to it, simply beacuse it involves electrochemistry and I was able to gather the required gear.

I understand that there are occasionally massive egos and other obstacles in this field, but I focussed on the task at hand, nothing more.

I seem to detect that  in this Karpen field of study, on this site, there have possibly been heated discussions, but I have not at all bothered to search or read any other posts, except for this thread, so I still don't know what exactly Profitis or others has said and I dont feel like bothering to read. 

So, as you have  seen, there were some goofs, some great initial results and finally some not so great ones. 
I however am completely satisfied with myself, that I learned from the initial mistakes and the last unsuccesful experiments were indeed correct.

In electrochemistry, dioxygen is a real problem.  Any dihydrogen really needs to be passed over  very hot copper turnings or powder before being introduced in a constant pressure, constant flow system such as what I used. 

I was too afraid to use this system of purification and dioxygen from the industrial hydrogen kept getting into the flask.   Ultra high purity dihydrogen solved this problem.

My suggestion to any replicators is to use a small volume sealed system right from the beginning.  Fuse all wires to the cell material  and when filled with solution and dihydrogen, fuse  openings, do not rely on glues and other material. And please, remove all dioxygen possible, and do not anodise the cathodes for the early experiments. Keep the cathode pure metal.  Use your intellect to generate dihydrogen separately with Al/HaOH to fill a balloon and use this to dilute the small volume of air in your cell. Then seal it permanently.

Profitis gave me lots to work with and I am thankful of that as I would not have got to this stage as quickly.  Unfortunately I presently cant agree with him as far as the cells I tried are concerned.  I cant at all comment  on the oxygen karpens as I have not looked into these and don't really want to in the near future.

All I can say to investors in this technology is good luck!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #398 on: August 09, 2014, 06:43:53 PM »
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Offline pomodoro

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #399 on: August 09, 2014, 06:46:33 PM »
Profitus, here is what I found, its in french and have no idea of what it says. 

Please translate it and if its interesting I might give it a go.

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #400 on: August 09, 2014, 11:40:43 PM »
Ok pomodoro I'm going to put a cork on the paranoia bottle from now on and act like a scientist is supposed to act,cool,relaxed and purely analytical,regardless of your results.I've found all of karpens documented work from 1900-1962 http://www.vasilescu-karpen.ro/ro/03inscrisuri/autor-r.html but they won't let me into the important 1948 document.they did however let me into the 1926 no.231 pp.70-72 document 'phenomenes semblant contredire la second de la thermodynamique,all about oxygen potentials there.they also surprisingly let me into the 1956 t.VI no.1 pp.29-33  document titled 'pila electrica cu hidrogen'.according to this last document karpen got a permanently stable 0.3v Pt(black)/Au under h2 in dil H2SO4. Interestingly enough that's exactly what the chinese got in H2SO4,0.3v. I can't open your file on my phone,it says 'unsupported'

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #400 on: August 09, 2014, 11:40:43 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline MarkE

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #401 on: August 10, 2014, 12:07:55 AM »
Thanks for your kind words MarkE.
I've worked as a chemist for 24 years but I am not an expert electrochemist.  Now let me admit that electrochemistry upto 3rd year university level is about where it stops for me.  Any more , such as some of the heavy stuff in the paper I posted is above my level of understanding. It would take a person with a phD in electrochemistry to really understand every aspect of such research.

Although a scientist I do occasionally look an non conventional theories with an open mind. The Karpen pile popped up on some random google search and I took a liking to it, simply beacuse it involves electrochemistry and I was able to gather the required gear.

I understand that there are occasionally massive egos and other obstacles in this field, but I focussed on the task at hand, nothing more.

I seem to detect that  in this Karpen field of study, on this site, there have possibly been heated discussions, but I have not at all bothered to search or read any other posts, except for this thread, so I still don't know what exactly Profitis or others has said and I dont feel like bothering to read. 

So, as you have  seen, there were some goofs, some great initial results and finally some not so great ones. 
I however am completely satisfied with myself, that I learned from the initial mistakes and the last unsuccesful experiments were indeed correct.

In electrochemistry, dioxygen is a real problem.  Any dihydrogen really needs to be passed over  very hot copper turnings or powder before being introduced in a constant pressure, constant flow system such as what I used. 

I was too afraid to use this system of purification and dioxygen from the industrial hydrogen kept getting into the flask.   Ultra high purity dihydrogen solved this problem.

My suggestion to any replicators is to use a small volume sealed system right from the beginning.  Fuse all wires to the cell material  and when filled with solution and dihydrogen, fuse  openings, do not rely on glues and other material. And please, remove all dioxygen possible, and do not anodise the cathodes for the early experiments. Keep the cathode pure metal.  Use your intellect to generate dihydrogen separately with Al/HaOH to fill a balloon and use this to dilute the small volume of air in your cell. Then seal it permanently.

Profitis gave me lots to work with and I am thankful of that as I would not have got to this stage as quickly.  Unfortunately I presently cant agree with him as far as the cells I tried are concerned.  I cant at all comment  on the oxygen karpens as I have not looked into these and don't really want to in the near future.

All I can say to investors in this technology is good luck!
Pomodoro thanks for all the work and information.  It is always possible, although often extremely unlikely that something exceptional will be discovered.  I have no problem with people checking out seemingly crazy ideas.  Ultimately carefully conducted experiments reveal the truth bit by bit.  Profitis ideas are no different.  There is always the possibility that he is onto something real.  The big problem with his ideas so far is that he has often claimed that his ideas are solidly supported by established text books, but has routinely failed to cite any specific such references, or other evidence that support his ideas.  Your experiments are a negative that adds to the weight against his ideas.  It doesn't mean that he ultimately is wrong, but he now has more to account for than ever.

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #402 on: August 10, 2014, 12:20:34 AM »
What metals/combinations are mentioned in your document pomodoro

Offline pomodoro

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #403 on: August 10, 2014, 08:19:37 AM »
Can't open rar archives?  Man you need a real PC!

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #404 on: August 10, 2014, 11:04:15 AM »
Or a phone upgrade.do you have any gold foil or wire lying around the lab pomodoro

 

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