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Author Topic: KARPEN PILE  (Read 164233 times)

Offline pomodoro

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #375 on: August 07, 2014, 01:05:44 PM »
Don't think I have any pyro.  Anyway I better concentrate just on this hydro karpen for now, before I throw in the towel from stress.

The current idea I have for a sealed version is to use a cleaned out fluorescent light tube. The glass to metal seals are already there, I just need to  cut the tube close enough to the end so I can work on the electrodes . It wont be that easy but worth a shot. 

Gonna keep this karpen going for a week if it behaves,  if theres constant deterioration I wont bother with a sealed version.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #375 on: August 07, 2014, 01:05:44 PM »

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #376 on: August 07, 2014, 03:01:23 PM »
Ok pomodoro.this type research involving hydrogen encapsulisation is really for the multimillion dollar funded labs with all the necessary containment equipment eg cold fusion labs or NiMH/fuel cell research labs but you can do the basics at least.focus entirely on the Pd/Ag,Pd/Cu systems now.if we can get any of those two stable in sodium hydroxide we make history here.

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #377 on: August 07, 2014, 04:03:47 PM »
I also want to suggest long see-through polyethylene tubes that are easily shaped and sealed by melting shut over single-strand copper wires like in my straw-v-cell picture.you seal one side at a time and simply electrolyse for h2 encapsulization

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #377 on: August 07, 2014, 04:03:47 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #378 on: August 07, 2014, 04:31:12 PM »
I know for a fact that the H2 karpens can be permanently stabilized if done right,why? Because the O2 karpens are all permanently stable.

Offline mscoffman

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #379 on: August 07, 2014, 07:37:06 PM »
I have "invented" a depolarizer device as I suspect the energy source you are chasing shows
up in unconnected piezo-crystals as well. Over 24 hours a standard piezo crystal sounder will
charge up and can then be shorted to get a small pulse of free electricy. I was going to use 12
of these piezo sounders in a circle, then discharge each one sequentially every two hours to
power the microwatt motor of a mechanical digital wrist watch used as an inverse electrical
distributor. So this construct is in effect a perpetual motion clock.

There are two types of devices; one runs on it's own battery for the laboratory use. And the
other can be self powered from it's battery cell for if you want to try for Karpen's record. I'm
telling you this so you don't have to worry that such a device exists. If you need them rapidly,
one could put effort into building them. It takes advantage of the fact that a mechanical
wristwatch with a plastic face watch-crystal runs on microwatts of energy.

---

I favor building this depolarizer in two parts one that does the depolization and a display
"header" circuit which can do the user display. The header can consist of a capacitor, a resistor ,
a flashing LED, and a LCD wristwatch with no battery.
resistor = dummy load to indicates that the battery cell power has not decreased significantly over time
flashing LED = that the device is producing power right now
LCD wristwatch = if the wristwatch has not reset then power has never been lost.

Karpen's electromagnetic depolarizer doesn't do each one of these well and would be complicated and
expensive to manufacture today. Other another hand production cells should use the somewhat more
inefficient semiconductor approach.

---

I will leave my battery cell chracterizer machine idea for a future post.

---

This power pulse effect creates a very narrow PWM window, if that could be eliminated
it would result in significantly higher average cell power. Pomodoro should not
become so enamoured with the slam-dunk-effect so that he then misinterprets
the meter pointer "sticking up there" as a bad thing.

:S:MarkSCorffman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #379 on: August 07, 2014, 07:37:06 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #380 on: August 08, 2014, 12:41:58 AM »
Nice @markscoffman.I've seen those piezospeakers self-charge and read a thread on here ages ago about somebody finding the best piezo that they could find giving quite a few micro-amps every few minutes.your idea of putting them in sequence is exactly what karpen himself did with his museam piece,two in sequence for his pulse motor.the thing about karpens is you can stretch their discharge curves wider simply by cramming more surface area into electrodes.they can infact begin to look like a normal battery's or supercapacitors discharge curve theoreticaly.the more surface area,the less time inbetween pulses would be required.

Offline pomodoro

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #381 on: August 08, 2014, 06:38:52 AM »
Well guys, its been fun, but I must now admit that I'm about to call it quits.

18 hrs ago, I made the same cell that worked very well about a week or more ago. It was discharging rapidly, recharging to about 800mV within a minute. I short circuited it for 18 hours. When I allowed it to recharge, it only reached 30mV in 3 hours. 

The only difference is that this time I forked out for an ultra high purity hydrogen gas bottle. I was using industrial hydrogen before.  I also used sodium hydroxide instead of potassium hydroxide, but this should have no bearing on the result.

My suspicion was that the reason why the other cell worked was that oxygen was getting reduced at the cathode. So to prove this, I removed the cathode out of the flask for 2 seconds, put it back, and abracadabra, the cell is once again working perfectly.

I'm giving  this one final shot, with the graphite rod.

So to properly prepare it profitis do I dewax it by heating in in hot caustic soda soln, an then cathodize it for a few hours to remove any contaminants?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #381 on: August 08, 2014, 06:38:52 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #382 on: August 08, 2014, 07:28:16 AM »
pomodoro thanks for all the work that you have put into testing the concept.

Offline d3x0r

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #383 on: August 08, 2014, 08:30:29 AM »
Quote
pomodoro thanks for all the work that you have put into testing the concept.
+1

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #383 on: August 08, 2014, 08:30:29 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #384 on: August 08, 2014, 10:06:49 AM »
Lol.remember when I thought pomodoro was markE or sarkeizen...just 3 days ago pomodoro was jumping around asking about pulse motors and how to build one,why was he doing this?

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #385 on: August 08, 2014, 10:08:30 AM »
It looks like I will have to put up a demo myself

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #385 on: August 08, 2014, 10:08:30 AM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline pomodoro

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #386 on: August 08, 2014, 10:49:13 AM »
+1

Thanks Guys, I enjoyed the research, although it cost me a few dollars too many.  A few more tests to be done before I pack up, but I am totally convinced that complete removal of oxygen and any oxides from the cathode surface render these hydrogen karpens useless.  Absolutely for certain for the silver cathode. 

Electrochemically it makes sense,  the voltage of the inert silver initially shows that of the oxygen-OH/Water couple.  The kinetics of this is slow on silver  and takes a long time to be fully discharged.  Once all traces of oxygen have gone, the next dominant couple is hydrogen- protons/water, this voltage is that of the Pd/Pt , with some differences due to the slower kinetics on the silver, hence the low equilibrium voltage. 

Exactly why the other metals I tried were not as good as silver I don't know, but perhaps the oxygen doesn't adsorb on their surface as well or the hydrogen/proton couple is more active on their surface, reducing the dominance of the oxygen/OH- couple.

In all cases, once the oxygen is gone, power is gone too.  Any brown black coatings on the cathode should be avoided in tests as these could be slow reacting oxides that could power devices for weeks on end.

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #387 on: August 08, 2014, 11:17:12 AM »
In direct contradiction to the research of chinese government laboratories @pomodoro.totaly stable Pt/Au,Pt(shiny)/Pt(black).

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #388 on: August 08, 2014, 11:24:57 AM »
In direct contradiction to common sense too:all oxygen karpens eg. Ni/MnO2,Pt/Au,Ag/Ni,Ni/C,Pt/Pd,Ag/MnO2 etc totaly stable permanently

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #389 on: August 08, 2014, 11:29:38 AM »
In direct contradiction to the textbooks too: silver hydrogen electrodes have a complete different voltage to platinum hydrogen electrodes according to your posted pdf on silver overpotentials

 

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