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Author Topic: KARPEN PILE  (Read 180010 times)

Offline pomodoro

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #270 on: July 25, 2014, 08:57:08 AM »
There was none as I did not leave any gas space.

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #270 on: July 25, 2014, 08:57:08 AM »

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #271 on: July 25, 2014, 09:05:02 AM »
.mustve burned.I'm also beginning to think that direct exposure of the palladium to H2 is important for rapid voltage climb.certainly from perspective of rate-limited diffusion but we'l see with this new test.

Offline pomodoro

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #272 on: July 25, 2014, 10:39:09 AM »
Got the graphite going over the weekend. Check out the current, 400 uA for 10 mins , is it really oxygen seeping in? It is dropping slowly .Kicks butt compared to the silver. Let's see what it looks like in 2 days.

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #272 on: July 25, 2014, 10:39:09 AM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #273 on: July 25, 2014, 11:02:39 AM »
The graphite setup is highly likely to fail for two reasons:1) air will undoubtedly creep straight through pores if it is a dewaxed rod.2)air will likely creep through side pores if it is a waxed rod. Wax will also saponify with KOH and may or may not cause problems at the anode.all graphite rods have to be dewaxed on a hotplate,wholly immersed in container with lead wire attatched.only the wire may emerge.

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #274 on: July 25, 2014, 12:06:51 PM »
Pomodoro,image number 20140724102633 is a discharging H2/Ag2O cell am I correct.look how limiting the diffusion of H2 gas through electrolyte is on a normal galvanic cell!! A few microamps, my god.

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #274 on: July 25, 2014, 12:06:51 PM »
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Offline pomodoro

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #275 on: July 25, 2014, 01:23:50 PM »
Sorry but after 5 minutes I still cant locate the file,  but probably not Ag2O as the discharge is in the order of milliamps when its black.

The graphite is probably not waxed. Its smooth. If waxed the KOH wont saponify it as it would be parrafin wax.  I did the graphite so as not to waste the second  cell over the weekend. I'm thinking that the graphite, which is not smooth any more where its been used as an electode, has absorbed some air over time and is now reducing this absorbed oxygen.  If I really wanted to test it I would have to snap a piece and wrap it around the silver electrode, then stick it in the cell, because I also agree that the current setup is not too secure.

 I'd love to test copper soon because I can fuse that in glass.   Still lots to learn at the moment, but in a few months some real truth will come out of this.

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #276 on: July 25, 2014, 02:57:45 PM »
I'm talking about your photo on page 17 pomodoro.what's going on in this pic,what is that bubble in the middle composed of. All graphite is waxed all the way through as binder and causes 2 problems: the fatty acid content definitely saponifies with KOH to some degree.the wax also drasticly reduces clean electrode surface area.alkaline zinc batteries use stainless steel rods instead of graphite nowadays.all graphite must be dewaxed then wholly contained in the system,there must be absolutely no possibility of air leaks.I've done tons of tests with carbon and it works beautiful in these cells except it takes much longer than silver to let go of atomic hydrogen.about 3 times longer.

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #276 on: July 25, 2014, 02:57:45 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #277 on: July 25, 2014, 03:08:11 PM »
Copper..mmm (-: I don't want to let go of too many secrets here but yes it will be nice to try it.

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #278 on: July 25, 2014, 03:34:31 PM »
The only batteries that you will find with exposed-to-air graphite cathodes are zinc-air or indeed H2/air fuel cells

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #278 on: July 25, 2014, 03:34:31 PM »
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Offline pomodoro

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #279 on: July 25, 2014, 03:42:23 PM »
That pic was after discharging the oxide.  It always remains brown but the pic made it look black. The shorted current was very low, but the yellow clip was not in the correct place and when I moved the cell air came in and the volts went up. So I refilled the cell with koh and saturated with hydrogen but left no bubble to make sure no air snuck in

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #280 on: July 25, 2014, 03:55:54 PM »
Are you sure that when you moved the clip that it didn't just make better electrical contact? Happens a lot,with everybody.I'm worried when you say brown because Ag2O is pitchblack and reduced Ag20 is grey-black.I hope no sulfur compounds are in that epoxy because it will cause a browny-black colour if H2S gets in.the Ag2S layer tends to drift off the cathode and darken the whole solution if this happens.in future we must throw a small shiny piece silver into the bottom of container just to check if it goes black.if it goes black then we have to avoid wetting epoxy.I still think a gadget1 type device is best option pomodoro

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #280 on: July 25, 2014, 03:55:54 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #281 on: July 25, 2014, 04:01:08 PM »
That pic that I posted of me holding up a piece jewellery silver was brownish due to being left exposed to atmosphere for months.it got a coat of Ag2S.

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #282 on: July 25, 2014, 04:14:05 PM »
You must always have excess visible H2 gas in these systems that you can see with the naked eye otherwise you can never know if you've sprung a leak or have limited re-uptake of H2 due to hampered diffusion or depressurized the cell from H2+O2 recombination.

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #283 on: July 25, 2014, 04:48:04 PM »
Here's the advantages of a properly sealed and exhaust-piped gadget1: 1) adequate exposure of anode to H2 eliminates rate-diffusion problem.2) any tiny O2 contamination will not depressurize and puncture cell and is quikly diluted.3)electrodes can be easily replaced or disassembled and modified to get desired result.4)electrolyte is far away from interwire joints and rubber stoppers.5) H2 flow can be increased/decreased at will.6) everything in the cell is clearly visible.

Offline pomodoro

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #284 on: July 26, 2014, 02:54:15 AM »
I still prefer type 3, but with some pressure sensor simply because constant bubbling introduces other contaminants from the bottle. When I ran gas chromatography labs we needed oxygen traps on the uhp hydrogen because it still contained traces of oxygen and wrecked columns after months of usage.  When I dismantle this gadget 3 I will place a hose on the tap with the open end under water to check for a vacuum or positive pressure.  Another run can have the pressure regulator apply a small positive pressure throughout the run.   Regarding the treated silver, it is definitely a brown color, not grey.

 

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