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Author Topic: KARPEN PILE  (Read 178462 times)

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #255 on: July 24, 2014, 11:51:02 AM »
So the the h2 was burned up by Ag2O in this preliminary correct pomodoro?this just to prepare cathode right?

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #255 on: July 24, 2014, 11:51:02 AM »

Offline pomodoro

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #256 on: July 24, 2014, 01:47:41 PM »
Correct.  This test is for a few days only. To see how it compares to the other cell. Later cell will be used to test out other cathodes.

It is discharging at the moment.  Earlier  today, after a few hours of discharging ,I allowed it to charge up. After a few hours it never went higher than 395mV and hovered around the 391-395 mark.  Tomrrow I will allow it to charge up again. Anything near 900mV will mean that oxygen has crept in again.

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #257 on: July 24, 2014, 02:26:57 PM »
Going up as high as 1.1v doesn't necessarily mean air is getting in pomodoro I've done this hundreds of times with nickel/Ag/NaOH.if the anode is totaly saturated with H2 and the whole thing sealed off properly voltage can climb pretty high.I used to discharge overnight,rest the whole afternoon,measure in the evening,discharge overnight,rest whole day,measure in evening.you must give the thing ample rest after long run discharges in order to auto-resaturate.

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #257 on: July 24, 2014, 02:26:57 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #258 on: July 24, 2014, 02:40:43 PM »
You must make sure that you have a visible large hydrogen bubble in the gadget2 test so that we can see if it shrinks in size over time.that will mean air is creeping in.

Offline pomodoro

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #259 on: July 24, 2014, 03:34:10 PM »
Going up as high as 1.1v doesn't necessarily mean air is getting in pomodoro I've done this hundreds of times with nickel/Ag/NaOH.if the anode is totaly saturated with H2 and the whole thing sealed off properly voltage can climb pretty high.I used to discharge overnight,rest the whole afternoon,measure in the evening,discharge overnight,rest whole day,measure in evening.you must give the thing ample rest after long run discharges in order to auto-resaturate.

1.1 v is for nickel though.  This is different animal.  I'm positive that the pd electrode surface and H2 will reduce any oxygen given time, but if it was up to the cell to do simply by discharge, it could take a very long time. A mg of stray O2 requires 12 coulombs to reduce.  At a typical 12 uA, diffusion limited current that's a million seconds.

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #259 on: July 24, 2014, 03:34:10 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #260 on: July 24, 2014, 05:33:55 PM »
No pomodoro.a nickel electrode and a silver electrode in KOH under air will discharge all way down to,wait for it,0.1 volt,20micro-amps/cm2(bursts!) and stay there lol.so you know that if it stays up at 0.6-1 volt after repeated dischrge cycles it is definitely hydrogen giving that potential.nickel and silver under air infact makes a weak O2 karpen cell lol.once that Ni(OH)2 layer forms it goes totaly inert.
« Last Edit: July 24, 2014, 11:40:49 PM by profitis »

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #261 on: July 24, 2014, 05:46:32 PM »
A mg of O2 contamination is one hell of a volume of air(a few mls?).if we can cut out contamination to a few micrograms/minute then air will reduce at a faster rate than it can be supplied and cut its voltage contribution to negligible.its a very difficult task getting H2 contained without a leak which is why I was all for the flow-through method of gadget1.if we can repeat gadget1 but carefully making sure no leaks then it would be a good reading.the outlet pipe should be dunked in a beaker water so outlet H2 can bubble out without possibility of significant air backwashing in.

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #261 on: July 24, 2014, 05:46:32 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #262 on: July 24, 2014, 05:51:36 PM »
I would think that a small positive pressure should be enough to prevent intrusion and / or make up for H2 leakage.  I don't think you need to have a measurable continuous flow to overcome glass / metal seal leaks.

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #263 on: July 24, 2014, 05:55:33 PM »
Your palladium electrode and silver electrode once totaly discharged under pure air should come down to roughly 0.1v and a few tens of microamps/cm2 in other words another O2 karpen.

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #263 on: July 24, 2014, 05:55:33 PM »
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Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #264 on: July 24, 2014, 06:00:57 PM »
True @mark E.but you'd need to see that the pressure is maintained in order to know that pressure is maintained.a valve on the gadget1 gas exhaust pipe is one way to do this.

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #265 on: July 24, 2014, 08:56:59 PM »
Pomodoro,you don't even have to short a sealed device to rid it of O2 traces.self-discharge of H2+O2 happens at surfaces of both catalysts spontaneously and completely within 2days.the problem is it causes massive vaccuum if too much air was in there,then that punctures a leak in the device.

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #265 on: July 24, 2014, 08:56:59 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #266 on: July 25, 2014, 06:21:15 AM »
True @mark E.but you'd need to see that the pressure is maintained in order to know that pressure is maintained.a valve on the gadget1 gas exhaust pipe is one way to do this.
Or a pressure sensor should do.  A small fraction of a PSI over ambient should cover things.  There are lots of very nice analog and digital pressure sensors around that cover gauge pressures well below 1 PSI.  A simple voltage limit alarm can be devised easily enough to trip and hold an alarm if the gauge pressure gets too low.

Offline pomodoro

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #267 on: July 25, 2014, 08:12:43 AM »
Overnight experiment did not give positive results. After shorting out all night, the cell voltage sluggishly crawled to 192 mv after one hour and stayed there. Discharge was weak. So another gadget has been constructed. This is similar to gadget 1 but has a lower volume and can be evacuated. Currently it has been evacuated till the water boiled, filled with hydrogen with a slight pressure and is now shorted out.

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #268 on: July 25, 2014, 08:17:30 AM »
Or he could just lead the exhaust pipe under beaker water of a fixed level and slowly bubble out,one at a time..

Offline profitis

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Re: KARPEN PILE
« Reply #269 on: July 25, 2014, 08:19:45 AM »
Pomodoro,how much H2 was visible in the overnight test.

 

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