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Author Topic: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%  (Read 320299 times)

Offline i_ron

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #375 on: July 05, 2014, 10:27:00 PM »
Ya I agree, but was only this morning that I noticed the secondary pivot point.
I see... the rod extends all the way from the rotating square plate to a circular path gear at the top even... so it's circular entirely.


Well yes, that is what the video evidence seems to indicate.


Mind you it is not quite as simple as I present above... taking it from a standing start... if one moves the top of the rod say 10 degrees in a clockwise direction, inertia momentarily keeps the weigh in position, thus forming a small inclination angle. This allows gravity to allow the weight to reposition itself.


When running with no load this inclination angle will be very small. With a load the inclination angle will increase thus allowing gravity to do more work... but never more that the load!


Under load the drive plate will rotate CCW. This has the effect of making the drive radius smaller and making the weight rise to a higher position...fascinating...


Thanks for the positive comeback,


Ron   






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Offline i_ron

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #376 on: July 05, 2014, 10:39:37 PM »


The output load is an input force to the system that makes the system respond and change the internal relationships.




A good observation!


I like your clever build.


Ron

Offline d3x0r

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #377 on: July 05, 2014, 10:40:35 PM »
:) So this can all be done with rigid blocks... was trying to figure out how to model a pivot... I dunno it almost works... think my lower most pivot needs to be redone....
actually the bottom pivot is off center.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvBFqjvWfjo


Was wondering where the give point was... so the top weight keeps the plate flat.
Added mass to it but... it's not right...

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #377 on: July 05, 2014, 10:40:35 PM »
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Offline ARMCORTEX

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #378 on: July 05, 2014, 11:44:12 PM »
Ok then those who support the Skinner cultist claims should pool their ressources together and have built by somebody trained a large well made device rather than multiple shitty toy devices, so that we can stop the endless cycle of this.

Let the big boys make big toys, with the big machine tools.






Offline d3x0r

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #379 on: July 06, 2014, 12:25:57 AM »
Ok then those who support the Skinner cultist claims should pool their ressources together and have built by somebody trained a large well made device rather than multiple shitty toy devices, so that we can stop the endless cycle of this.

Let the big boys make big toys, with the big machine tools.
like this guy :)  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRfKQswJT54


several of the demos have a linear drive... could definatly advantage the gimbal
like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n27XU9jXgxU  (Eltimple)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCOctgVIR6Q (David Quirey)


So probably should get a good plan together first...


I see viable arguments that the top weight compensates for the load to change the tilt of the lower shaft... but if it were to work 'the david device' simplifies it to a single rigid body with a wheel at the top within a circular drive track... although he goes through and adds more weight in balance, which reduces the actual amount that's accelerating (moving the COG more towards the center and up) and essentially ends up just adding flywheel mass... should be one mass on an arm... ( ya know, this guy... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-KVo4lxHgE )




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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #379 on: July 06, 2014, 12:25:57 AM »
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Offline ARMCORTEX

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #380 on: July 06, 2014, 04:00:52 AM »
No, there has been enough direction.

Simply a matter of planning well and anticipate modification and way to adapt mechanism to test many situation.

To see really if there is OU or not.

Now it is the realm of big boys to decide is its worth the risk, so I ask if the Skinner cultists will pool together or continue the non OU builds individually.

Offline d3x0r

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #381 on: July 06, 2014, 05:18:14 AM »

This isn't entirely skinner, and may appear to be entirely off topic, but in my considerations I see one leading to the other a little


 Ermola Andrei ... unfortunately he's ukrainian so there's some language issues...
http://www.overunity.com/14746/ermola-andrei/msg408658/#new  (summary thread I started)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0g0FcY-7Fw0 (inventor himself demonstrating.  Just a vertical force ends up causing a perpetual rotation)





I somehow think these two ideas are linked, in that if I had something like TheJohnDevice(.com) (modern, simpler idea section) that if I attached the rotation of the shaft to a slip-ring at the top that had a spring that pulled the rotating axis offset, that it could be self-running... somehow there is probably an equilibrium that will end up with the weight just bound to a higher point instead of allowing it to fall continuously...


Actually got linked to skinner and john's device from recent posts on realstraanik thread about ermola andrei... so that might be part of my bias of linking them.


Translated page of Ermola describing the principle

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #381 on: July 06, 2014, 05:18:14 AM »
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Offline ARMCORTEX

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #382 on: July 06, 2014, 05:48:44 AM »
I like Skinner more than that thing. And I like Dimitriev more than Skinner. Bigger smoother more durable=better.

It has super annoying durability issues that he is trying to diminish.


Offline d3x0r

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #383 on: July 06, 2014, 07:13:10 AM »
I like Skinner more than that thing. And I like Dimitriev more than Skinner. Bigger smoother more durable=better.

It has super annoying durability issues that he is trying to diminish.
Dimitreiv is that big wheel in france right?  Problem with that is size to power ratio.... I tried a sim of that too... and maybe adding more arms will work.... just hard to do in a square grid.


The perpetual motion device noone disputes is that ball on a track in a circle with a pendulum...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E9GucVwc36Q (Finsrud GMD)
http://youtu.be/Yqk283c5zBo?t=2m11s

I'll stop straying from topic.  (although this is less of a reach than Ermola)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #383 on: July 06, 2014, 07:13:10 AM »
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Offline ARMCORTEX

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #384 on: July 06, 2014, 08:14:41 AM »
Somebody named matze simmed it well.

All these devices give 4x OU.

So I see that ermola actually is making good papers, this is goood.

You can take design with grain of salt, whats important it overall principle.


Offline d3x0r

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #385 on: July 06, 2014, 09:53:19 AM »
One more rough sim, then I'll do a better job...


http://youtu.be/GdlT35EZqd0


Really sorry it's so long (5 minutes something)... was a lot of time thinking about where the faults were...
My original sims still had some of the rotor on, so they weren't going so well.
I had more of a skinner device with plate and lower rotors etc... but I captured it at 1 fps, and when I went to fix the framerate option it ate itself.


Need to adjust where the pivot on the arm is also, it ended up being a offset circle from the center of the drive too... but that also means the length between the drive and the gimbal changes, which requires much more force to overcome... the motors are somewhat forgiving and can be forced to torque the tops angular...
The forces are in kN and MN(newton)... because the mass blocks are like 55,000kg... the scale is really quite large in this...

But ya, still think there's merit.

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #385 on: July 06, 2014, 09:53:19 AM »
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Offline i_ron

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #386 on: July 06, 2014, 04:39:31 PM »
One more rough sim, then I'll do a better job...



But ya, still think there's merit.


With the gimbal you are sim'ing the top drive rod... you have the weight on the wrong side.



Ron

Offline ARMCORTEX

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #387 on: July 06, 2014, 06:48:44 PM »
There is strange things in the EF threads.

Incompetent people are arguing about a piece of metal again with accusations of ''misleading''...

Elliptical vs circular, make it so that its easily switched of driving mode and let that be that.

I'd start out with Dave Q, 2 big arrays. A good 500$ build.

Thats why I say to the untalented fucks who claim to be, put your $ in a hat and have it done right, kill the skinner right now.

Because people never learned to build shit with screwable modules thy think both cannot co exist ? Strange **** going on.

 

Offline d3x0r

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #388 on: July 06, 2014, 07:55:48 PM »
Just adding image here so I can post it on EF....


I asked my question about the math here...
http://physicshelpforum.com/showthread.php?p=26402#post26402
they're no help.


Added more technical image of drive mechanism... (Valnor or is it Artoj to thank)
Edit: replaced picture with a more (in my opinion) accurate one...

Offline ARMCORTEX

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #389 on: July 06, 2014, 08:48:51 PM »
Some may have built to make an easy transition between many modalities and many may have built that are reading and not posting.

A starting assumption must be made, then tested for and then the starting assumption must be changed to match the empirical results.

If YOU are so inclined, then why don't YOU fund a builder.. say like TK,, he has all the skills and knowledge needed to follow YOUR directions,, he is very talented.

Somehow I do not think that you will do that and I do not think TK would take your money unless you can convince him that there is something more than what is evident in the video.

Do you have an input as to the possible relationships that are in play?

I have mine and I am testing towards those,, I share with whom I choose and I can ignore those that I choose,, just like you can choose to ignore all of us "fill in the blank" but keep it in your own head.

my input is that your input is not proving anything, thus any input you make is worthless. And I dont share real input with non initiates.

There is no more input to give, its ''interresting'' and worth a real build.

I chip in 20$, go ahead find the machinist, get a bunch of cultists, 50 of em, I am not popular like Aaron I cant do it.





 

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