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Author Topic: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%  (Read 303340 times)

Offline iflewmyown

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #105 on: June 01, 2014, 06:09:32 PM »
Thank you very much for all your drawings they are most helpful.
Garry

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Offline ARMCORTEX

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #106 on: June 01, 2014, 06:42:15 PM »
Ramset you rat, now I have an excuse to hate your guts.

I will remember this. 8)


Offline ramset

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #107 on: June 02, 2014, 01:41:39 AM »
ArmChair

live long and prosper ......


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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #107 on: June 02, 2014, 01:41:39 AM »
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Offline noonespecial

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #108 on: June 02, 2014, 04:31:31 AM »
From description:
"Miami, Florida, United States of America.
Various shots of inventor William Skinner in his workshop as he demonstrates a model of his gravity power machine. It has weights that spin round and multiply the power of an 1/8 horsepower motor by 1200 % - enough energy to power a town of 3,500 at a cost of £1 a month. William uses the power of the model to work a 12 foot lathe that cuts ribbons of steel."


Well actually it says that if you use a 1 HP motor you could supply a town of 3500 with power.


I realize that the consumer electrical demand in 1939 was considerably less than today, however the numbers don't add up.
If you multiply a 1 HP motor by 1200% you get 12 HP. Do you really think 12 HP will provide enough electrical power for 3500 people?


Just asking.....





Offline havuhung

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #109 on: June 02, 2014, 08:04:06 AM »
Hi noonespecial,
Yeah, thought the same thing, right from the beginning I read it. I also have a little doubt and I was trying to calculate the electric power supply to a number of people in the ward, as the article refers to is not possible!!!  But my personal thought, there is a misunderstanding in the statement of the inventor, or the error due to who wrote the article, this causes an exaggerated too high for real power of this machine?. .   But if everyone thoroughly review the video, then this machine can be OU.

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #109 on: June 02, 2014, 08:04:06 AM »
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Offline qiman

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #110 on: June 02, 2014, 08:34:29 AM »
Hi noonespecial,
Yeah, thought the same thing, right from the beginning I read it. I also have a little doubt and I was trying to calculate the electric power supply to a number of people in the ward, as the article refers to is not possible!!!  But my personal thought, there is a misunderstanding in the statement of the inventor, or the error due to who wrote the article, this causes an exaggerated too high for real power of this machine?. .   But if everyone thoroughly review the video, then this machine can be OU.

I pretty much agree with this that there is something being erroneously stated here.

However, 1/8 of a HP is 93.25 watts at 100% efficiency (being that 746 watts is 1 hp ideally).

93.25 x 12 times = 1119 watts output from the machine at 1200% if we're starting with 1/8 hp so with real losses, let's say that is 1000 watts worth of power he is producing, which is about 1.34 HP. Can he do all that work with the lathe, back and forth saw, etc... all for 1.34 hp of mechanical work or 1000 watts continuous?

That lathe is a lot beefier than my 9x19 lathe from Grizzly.  At fully loaded, it draws 1276 watts and I can't cut 1/4" ribbons of steel with that much power.

Because of the real work demonstration Skinner is showing, he may be grossly understating what his machine is really producing. It may be 5000% of COP 50.0 for example. By observing what he is doing with the output of the machine, it certainly would require much much more than 1200% of 1/8 HP input.

If his 1/8 hp input with losses gives him 1000 watts of work at 1200% but it is really 4.2 times that, that would be 4200 watts continuous and if we multiple that by 8 times, that is 33.33 hp worth of work, which is about 23k watts.

At 23k watts / 3500 people = 6.5 watts continuous for each person. Obviously not everyone will be using it at the same time but it still doesn't seem enough. What electrical loads would they have? A radio and some lights? Hot water would be steam plant heated for many places at that time, etc... it's a good question what someone in 1939 in America would be drawing on average.

In any case, I think he is actually producing much more than 1200% of 1/8 hp to do the work he is demonstrating.


Offline turbogt16v

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #111 on: June 02, 2014, 12:44:45 PM »
I really don't know why you people argue how much amount of power does it bring,
it is overunity and that is it.
It will always give more power ,
If you want a few wats more yous wait a few sec more.

Its is not good to argue about meanles facts

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #111 on: June 02, 2014, 12:44:45 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #112 on: June 02, 2014, 07:49:58 PM »
Thanks havuhung, I drew the 1st version so Luc could see why he had used many pulleys. I do have a lot of material on old motors, the one I found is approximate in design, and was very popular in the 30's. My working sizes are now much closer to the original Skinner machine. Regards Arto.

Great research work Arto!

Thank you for taking the time to work this out and share

Luc

Offline noonespecial

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #113 on: June 02, 2014, 10:28:39 PM »
I pretty much agree with this that there is something being erroneously stated here.

However, 1/8 of a HP is 93.25 watts at 100% efficiency (being that 746 watts is 1 hp ideally).

93.25 x 12 times = 1119 watts output from the machine at 1200% if we're starting with 1/8 hp so with real losses, let's say that is 1000 watts worth of power he is producing, which is about 1.34 HP. Can he do all that work with the lathe, back and forth saw, etc... all for 1.34 hp of mechanical work or 1000 watts continuous?

That lathe is a lot beefier than my 9x19 lathe from Grizzly.  At fully loaded, it draws 1276 watts and I can't cut 1/4" ribbons of steel with that much power.

Because of the real work demonstration Skinner is showing, he may be grossly understating what his machine is really producing. It may be 5000% of COP 50.0 for example. By observing what he is doing with the output of the machine, it certainly would require much much more than 1200% of 1/8 HP input.

If his 1/8 hp input with losses gives him 1000 watts of work at 1200% but it is really 4.2 times that, that would be 4200 watts continuous and if we multiple that by 8 times, that is 33.33 hp worth of work, which is about 23k watts.

At 23k watts / 3500 people = 6.5 watts continuous for each person. Obviously not everyone will be using it at the same time but it still doesn't seem enough. What electrical loads would they have? A radio and some lights? Hot water would be steam plant heated for many places at that time, etc... it's a good question what someone in 1939 in America would be drawing on average.

In any case, I think he is actually producing much more than 1200% of 1/8 hp to do the work he is demonstrating.


There is a possible alternate explanation I think.


If we take the initial 1/8 HP motor and drop the motor speed (and consequently increase the applied torque) through the gearing of the pulleys down to the assumed 60 RPM being applied to the upper section with the long lever arms, then, multiply this by the leverage of the long arms through the pivot to the 'translation plate', the force being applied to each of the 4 rotating assemblies could be the equivalent of 1200% or 1.5 HP to each (not including transmission losses). Hmm sorry for the run-on sentence.  :)


If this were true, and we then had approximately 6 HP (before losses) that would seem to square with the power being demonstrated to run the lathe, drill press and industrial sized hack saw.


Just a thought.

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #113 on: June 02, 2014, 10:28:39 PM »
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Offline havuhung

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #114 on: June 04, 2014, 07:44:01 AM »
Hi All,
Received from snapshot screen, there is an arc, can be as a steel cable that runs continuously reversal, synchronization with the top of the lever bar. I do not understand, they have contributed to the need for activities this place? . .
« Last Edit: June 04, 2014, 01:12:02 PM by havuhung »

Offline Artoj

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #115 on: June 04, 2014, 03:21:13 PM »
Here is an update on the top mechanism. Regards Arto.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #115 on: June 04, 2014, 03:21:13 PM »
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Offline gotoluc

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #116 on: June 04, 2014, 04:12:43 PM »
Hi All,
Received from snapshot screen, there is an arc, can be as a steel cable that runs continuously reversal, synchronization with the top of the lever bar. I do not understand, they have contributed to the need for activities this place? . .

At first I also thought there was an arc mechanism of some kind at that location. This is one of the reasons I made the looped video, to better observe it.
I finally concluded it's the same as the other 3 visible upper bars moving in a rotation but it's mostly not visible because the film is overexposed by the light from the window, so it's hiding most of that bars activity but movement is detectable when the bar edges line up with the frame posts and causing a visible arc because it's rotating in a circle.

Luc

Offline havuhung

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #117 on: June 04, 2014, 05:26:22 PM »
Hi gotoluc,
Thanks

Offline rc4

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #118 on: June 04, 2014, 10:32:37 PM »
Hi all,

It's not a gravity machine, it uses gravity for change torque on axis. Gravity can be changed by anything else. Take 2 objects in rotation 2D (free is better or at least axis more free), if a torque is applied to one object other receive the same in other direction, but like moments of inertia are not the same, each torque don't move same angle. Energy from torque is torque by angle, angle depend of moment of inertia.

Offline gotoluc

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Re: 1939 Gravity Power - multiply power by 1200%
« Reply #119 on: June 04, 2014, 11:14:50 PM »
Hi all,

It's not a gravity machine, it uses gravity for change torque on axis. Gravity can be changed by anything else. Take 2 objects in rotation 2D (free is better or at least axis more free), if a torque is applied to one object other receive the same in other direction, but like moments of inertia are not the same, each torque don't move same angle. Energy from torque is torque by angle, angle depend of moment of inertia.

So if gravity doesn't makes the weight turn then it should work in space right?... can you visualize it working because I can't

Luc

 

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