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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: tru168 on May 21, 2014, 04:22:10 AM

Title: Akula 1W PNP biasing
Post by: tru168 on May 21, 2014, 04:22:10 AM
Hi all,


 Just saw Wesley's translate here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVTKRLWAo_c
by carefully look at the circuit, here's my opinion about the design:
1)transistors need to be extremely high gain to oscillate by using a opened coil as feedback antenna.
2)The circuit need another capacitor around 100pF - 470pf to oscillate if using normal lower gain transistor.
3)The PNP transistor bias seems wrong. 


if PNP transistor bias corrected and capacitor added, although it can oscillate but not sure if it will give OU, I watched the video clip and found something weird at 1:31 , the LED blinks before the 3V battery touching the solder point.



Title: Re: Akula 1W PNP biasing
Post by: Marsing on May 21, 2014, 06:43:52 AM

hi, where can i find the schematic ? 
Title: Re: Akula 1W PNP biasing
Post by: tru168 on May 21, 2014, 10:25:56 AM
Hi,


 Here's the schematic, which already mentioned in others post quite sometime ago. Some one replicate it, but can't get it oscillate. I check on the schematic and found bias error for pnp  transistor. 
Title: Re: Akula 1W PNP biasing
Post by: Marsing on May 21, 2014, 04:45:12 PM
Hi all,

 Just saw Wesley's translate here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jVTKRLWAo_c
by carefully look at the circuit, here's my opinion about the design:
1)transistors need to be extremely high gain to oscillate by using a opened coil as feedback antenna.
2)The circuit need another capacitor around 100pF - 470pf to oscillate if using normal lower gain transistor.
3)The PNP transistor bias seems wrong. 


if PNP transistor bias corrected and capacitor added, although it can oscillate but not sure if it will give OU, I watched the video clip and found something weird at 1:31 , the LED blinks before the 3V battery touching the solder point.

thanks for the schematic. I will try to replicate it, can you explain point 2 about another capacitor  and point 3 about pnp bias.

IMO, from the schematic, (T1, T2, T3 = hfe is unknown and if L3 acts as usual winding)

T1 is always ON, except L3 pull all the current from the base of T1, it will oscillate, R1 values may have to be changed.

"although it can oscillate but not sure if it will give OU ".
agree with you for the moment.
Title: Re: Akula 1W PNP biasing
Post by: tru168 on May 22, 2014, 03:22:14 AM
Hi Marsingļ¼Œ




 The T1 will bias from L3 and start oscillate, if hfe is high enough, or L3 pickup a lot of "signal" from other coils. I found that T3 don't have any bias unless it start to oscillate, I agree to tune some other resistors value to make it work nicely. I saw another version says the R1 value need to reduced to 100ohm. I will suggest to remove R3, and connect a 100K resistor from T3's B to -Ve, that will provide bias to T3 and will oscillate more easier.
as for feedback capacitor , If the circuit build correctly with enough gain, feedback capacitor actually not necessary , if poor coil is used, feedback capacitor of around 220pf need to be in between T1' C and T3's B. I will suggest to tune until it oscillate nicely without the feedback capacitor.


The design looks simple and fun to build, I will try to build it by this coming week end, just for fun.









Title: Re: Akula 1W PNP biasing
Post by: TinselKoala on May 22, 2014, 03:45:44 AM
Cool! A three-transistor, three LED, three coil Joule Thief that runs on three volts!











Do you think you'll be able to get more than three minutes run time out of it once the 3V battery is disconnected?


If you make changes in the wiring and the component values, and you fail to make a self-runner, although it oscillates and lights the LEDs... what then? Will you be able to say that Akula is again faking it? But you didn't use the right circuit! You changed values, you changed geometry, you changed core material, you changed the color of the insulation. You biased the PNP "correctly" when everyone knows that the secret to OU is _improper use_ of off the shelf components!  And so forth.








Title: Re: Akula 1W PNP biasing
Post by: Marsing on May 22, 2014, 06:25:24 AM
tru168,

first sight, i saw it just another version of jt. and with understanding L3 on how it work we can remove many component from circuit, and make a simple one, T2,D2,D1,R4,led2 are the electron trap, yes build  this just for fun.
 
Tk,

Not sure how you can conclude it will run no longer than 3 minutes, probably because C1 values 1000/4000 uf, and yes i will change everything what i need, and......... you seems to talk to someone else. this thread is still baby.
Title: Re: Akula 1W PNP biasing
Post by: tru168 on May 22, 2014, 07:24:56 AM
Yes, I build it just for fun, I'm not go for OU in any way.  So I change the value a little, and maybe another new joule ringer. No harm experimenting a small circuit like this, I might learn something new too,  25 years in electronics circuit design, I still need to keep learning from others.
Let me know how it goes Marsing, I will share the result after I built it.



Title: Re: Akula 1W PNP biasing
Post by: scratchrobot on May 22, 2014, 08:10:48 AM
Yes, I build it just for fun, I'm not go for OU in any way.  So I change the value a little, and maybe another new joule ringer. No harm experimenting a small circuit like this, I might learn something new too,  25 years in electronics circuit design, I still need to keep learning from others.
Let me know how it goes Marsing, I will share the result after I built it.


Exactly my motivation on trying these kind of circuits, just for fun and learning from others like TinselKoala  ;)


Regards
Title: Re: Akula 1W PNP biasing
Post by: Marsing on May 22, 2014, 09:19:49 AM
Yes, I build it just for fun, I'm not go for OU in any way.  So I change the value a little, and maybe another new joule ringer. No harm experimenting a small circuit like this, I might learn something new too,  25 years in electronics circuit design, I still need to keep learning from others.
Let me know how it goes Marsing, I will share the result after I built it.

Oh, well you have more experience than me, i need to learn from you, forgive me, LoL.

the interesting thing from akula circuit is there are always feedback to primary coils or reverse, it's hard  to formulate its basic concept, maybe you can. vid below shows a weird effect, i think the missing part / not shown from the vid is a synchronization.

Plasma Spark Mod by Aaron Murakami & Peter Lindemann,
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oyrzLmyxeQ
Title: Re: Akula 1W PNP biasing
Post by: TinselKoala on May 22, 2014, 12:09:17 PM
Oh, well you have more experience than me, i need to learn from you, forgive me, LoL.

the interesting thing from akula circuit is there are always feedback to primary coils or reverse, it's hard  to formulate its basic concept, maybe you can. vid below shows a weird effect, i think the missing part / not shown from the vid is a synchronization.

Plasma Spark Mod by Aaron Murakami & Peter Lindemann,
www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oyrzLmyxeQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oyrzLmyxeQ)

What "weird effect"? The effect of having the same stuff repeated over and over in a video? The "weird effect" of showing sparks from a capacitor discharge? Or the "weird effect" of people actually falling for the BS that Lindemann and Err-on dish out?

Here, these are better "weird effect" videos for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XRwlNCF1PU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5I_BM4E00E

Title: Re: Akula 1W PNP biasing
Post by: Marsing on May 22, 2014, 05:14:33 PM
What "weird effect"? The effect of having the same stuff repeated over and over in a video? The "weird effect" of showing sparks from a capacitor discharge? Or the "weird effect" of people actually falling for the BS that Lindemann and Err-on dish out?

Here, these are better "weird effect" videos for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XRwlNCF1PU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5I_BM4E00E

"The effect of having the same stuff repeated over and over in a video", almost, Guess if you can !! 

first vid "Extreme High Voltage: Flyback Demo, Jacob's Ladder, Added Capacitance" is not weird at all.
it would become "weird effect" if you share schematic for that.

second vid: http://analogouslyspeaking.blogspot.com/2009/06/neon-oscillators.html
Title: Re: Akula 1W PNP biasing
Post by: Vortex1 on May 22, 2014, 08:13:48 PM
What "weird effect"? The effect of having the same stuff repeated over and over in a video? The "weird effect" of showing sparks from a capacitor discharge? Or the "weird effect" of people actually falling for the BS that Lindemann and Err-on dish out?

Here, these are better "weird effect" videos for you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XRwlNCF1PU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XRwlNCF1PU)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5I_BM4E00E (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5I_BM4E00E)

Where the heck is IGOR when you need him?.......turn up the voltage!
Title: Re: Akula 1W PNP biasing
Post by: Jeg on May 23, 2014, 01:04:58 PM
Yes, I build it just for fun, I'm not go for OU in any way.  So I change the value a little, and maybe another new joule ringer. No harm experimenting a small circuit like this, I might learn something new too,  25 years in electronics circuit design, I still need to keep learning from others.
Let me know how it goes Marsing, I will share the result after I built it.

@True168
Do you have some more info on this circuit please? Any video of akula showing this?
What i would like to know is what transistors you use, and more details for the coils.
The coil length plays significant role and i wonder if there are any more instructions for their implementation.

Before some months i had some good results on a self oscillator circuit like this, and you should know that you can make it oscillate at a surprisingly high voltage and frequency.
Check the waveforms on this thread... http://www.overunity.com/14197/sstc-changing-frequency-issue/msg402194/#msg402194

I have improve it even more and now it oscillates at 200V pk-pk at about 50MHz.
If OU can be extracted from circuits like that, then at my opinion this is the way.
If you also like we can synchronize our tries so to help each other.
Thanks

Title: Re: Akula 1W PNP biasing
Post by: tru168 on May 23, 2014, 06:10:36 PM
Hi Jeg,




Thanks for sharing with me the interesting circuit you built.  Yes, oscillator with high frequency can generate high voltage, I always play with similar circuit when I'm in high school, especially when I passed my Ham Radio exam and start building transmitters.


  So far, I'm just studying the Akula schematic and not yet building it. I already gather a bunch of parts from my junk box, and will build it by this coming Sunday. I will share result and also parts I'm using. I have some transistors in my junk box,  SS8550 and SS8050 both NPN and PNP which can withstand around 1A current, and with decent gain. I will try also 2SD772, 2SB882, both are low saturation type of transistors , but with slightly lower gain than 8850/8050 . I will try 2SD966,  and normal 2SC1815/ 2SC1015.
 A for the coil , I will try the air core as shown in video , and also make my own ferrite coil to experiment.


Here's another video I found in Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYx-9WI8TNo


I attached the circuit diagram which shown in the video as well.











Title: Re: Akula 1W PNP biasing
Post by: Jeg on May 24, 2014, 02:48:36 PM
Hi Jeg,




Thanks for sharing with me the interesting circuit you built.  Yes, oscillator with high frequency can generate high voltage, I always play with similar circuit when I'm in high school, especially when I passed my Ham Radio exam and start building transmitters.


  So far, I'm just studying the Akula schematic and not yet building it. I already gather a bunch of parts from my junk box, and will build it by this coming Sunday. I will share result and also parts I'm using. I have some transistors in my junk box,  SS8550 and SS8050 both NPN and PNP which can withstand around 1A current, and with decent gain. I will try also 2SD772, 2SB882, both are low saturation type of transistors , but with slightly lower gain than 8850/8050 . I will try 2SD966,  and normal 2SC1815/ 2SC1015.
 A for the coil , I will try the air core as shown in video , and also make my own ferrite coil to experiment.


Here's another video I found in Youtube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CYx-9WI8TNo


I attached the circuit diagram which shown in the video as well.

Thanks tru168
When you have time it would be appreciated if you could make the changes in the circuit even by hand.
I am not sure about changing R1. Normally the pick up with so many turns would be very high if you manage to make it oscillate at this MHz range frequency..

ps. In this new drawing there are two floating coils???