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Solid States Devices => Kapanadze devices and replications => Topic started by: hartiberlin on May 13, 2014, 05:01:18 AM

Title: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: hartiberlin on May 13, 2014, 05:01:18 AM
Hi Guys,
here are the 2 drawings and circuit diagram my friend has tried.
Cause he uses the load between these coils thereis no DC current flowing in the output load,
just only resonance  currents.

Here is the video to it;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j3b7jVnQYKU

More to come...

Regards, Stefan.
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: Vortex1 on May 13, 2014, 05:20:29 AM
Many thanks to Stefan and his friend and special thanks for meticulously documented drawings, photo's and data.

It is work like this that makes accurate replication possible.

Kind Regards, Vortex1
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: NoDrawBack on May 13, 2014, 10:01:33 AM
@ Vortex: Thanks, goes down like oil, but takes some time, so always be patient...

@All: Summarized additional information here:
http://prezi.com/anxy2qlmgx7l/nodrawback/ (http://prezi.com/anxy2qlmgx7l/nodrawback/)
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: Collapsingfield on May 13, 2014, 10:44:56 AM
Hello, I tested this after seeing the video. Yes, the effect exists without the cooper rod as well. You can use two different layer (coil) connected by a wire or load at one end. The circuit will be closed by the capacitance between the two coil. The resonance freq highly depend on the inner capacitance of the coils as well.   It is an LC resonance, like resonance of the Tesla coil. The resonance exists and uses energy when you can not see. Using load you can get from this energy, but there is "no feedback to source" virtually. There is a feedback, and it depends on the tuning. For example you can achieve decreasing at input side, when you close the circuit by wire or small load and tune correctly.
Regards
Collapsingfield
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: Hoppy on May 13, 2014, 10:55:28 AM
Like Vortex1 has commented, excellent documentation and thanks Stefan for posting this.

Hoppy
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: Free.Energy on May 13, 2014, 04:19:25 PM
Try:

1. Apply DC from your power supply of at least 15v to coil L3 (vary voltage and current and see if any effect on output)

2. In a separate test, disconnect the copper rod from the other coils.  Apply DC of at least 15v to the copper rod with and without the ferrites to see if there is any effect on the output.  (vary voltage and current and see if any effect on output)
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: NoDrawBack on May 13, 2014, 05:40:43 PM
Thanks, i will give that DC suggestion on L3 a try but:

>Apply DC of at least 15v to the copper rod

will result in approx 2400 Ampere   :-[
(such a DC supply i do not own)

What do you mean?
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: Free.Energy on May 13, 2014, 06:41:59 PM
Sorry.
Limit the current to about 1 ampere.  Ideally you want to be able to adjust it if applying it makes a difference.
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: NoDrawBack on May 14, 2014, 09:18:40 AM
you wrote:
>1. Apply DC from your power supply of at least 15v to coil L3
Results:
- With increasing DC current the output drops down to ZERO at 3A
- By varying frequency i was not able to find another useful resonance point with high output
- The resistance of the input coil increased significantly  (Current raised from 0.5A to 3.0A (power supply maximum))

>2. In a separate test, disconnect the copper rod from the other coils. 
>Apply DC of at least 1 Ampere to the copper rod
Result: No difference could be detected, no influence for DC currents (tested 0.1 up to 3A)

Thanks for your suggestions
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: Vortex1 on May 14, 2014, 01:41:15 PM
Dear Nodrawback

Thank you for your excellent work.

I would suggest replacing the thin coil L1, L2 assembly with a copper cylinder to see if it still works. The copper cylinder should have a slot  on it's length, or use copper foil formed to a cylinder but do not allow a complete turn or touching of the edges, as this would act as a single turn shorted winding and absorb all the energy. Leave a few mm between the edges. Then test the potential between the copper rod and slotted cylinder while driving the heavier coil normally.

If it does not work the same, then possibly the induced high voltage due to large number of turns is forming a closed path through the small amount of capacitive coupling between the copper rod and the thin coil L1, L2.

It would be nice to see a video where both bulbs are observed, or the first bulb is eliminated and only the second bulb is energized while observing the amp meters, to be sure there is no energy re-balancing (like squeezing a balloon at one end).

Could it be that RF radiation loss from the thin L1, L2 coil harmonic high frequency energy (ringing) is being shifted to the second bulb instead of radiated to the environment ? What is the frequency of the ringing energy?

Is there any change in the scope waveform or power supply meter current ( not meaning the pointer D'Arsonval meter) when the second bulb is touched?

Thank you in advance for any testing on my request.
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: NoDrawBack on May 14, 2014, 03:06:25 PM
You wrote:
>I would suggest replacing the thin coil L1, L2 assembly with a copper cylinder
>to see if it still works. The copper cylinder should have a vertical slot 
I prepared such a coil already but unwinding/rewindiing has to be done.... time lacks....

Will reply to your suggestion tomorrow  (travelling right now)

Meanwhile some results from yesterday to think about:
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: NickZ on May 14, 2014, 03:57:51 PM
  This circuit looks to me as if the main coils are very inefficient and can't even light the small 7 watt bulb to close to full brightness. And the addition of the copper tube adds inductance which enables the bulb to light brighter, and also causing a higher draw.
 I don't see anything special about this though. Not self running, and still draining it's source. It's also possible that the meter does read accurately what's really going on, and the additional draw is not showing up on the meter. 
  More light also normally means a higher draw, which will also drain the battery quicker. The test is to see how long it takes to drain a battery, with or without the copper rod.  I suspect the battery will drain much quicker with the rod in place. Unlike what is being shown by the meter.
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: Vortex1 on May 14, 2014, 04:54:13 PM
You wrote:
>I would suggest replacing the thin coil L1, L2 assembly with a copper cylinder
>to see if it still works. The copper cylinder should have a vertical slot 
I prepared such a coil already but unwinding/rewindiing has to be done.... time lacks....

Will reply to your suggestion tomorrow  (travelling right now)

Meanwhile some results from yesterday to think about:

I'm not suggesting that you unwind or rewind, L1, L2, rather remove the entire tube containing L1, L2 and replace it with the slotted copper cylinder.

I will think about your new results.

Enjoy your travel, no hurry.

Regards, Vortex1
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: Free.Energy on May 14, 2014, 08:03:50 PM
you wrote:
>1. Apply DC from your power supply of at least 15v to coil L3
Results:
- With increasing DC current the output drops down to ZERO at 3A
- By varying frequency i was not able to find another useful resonance point with high output
- The resistance of the input coil increased significantly  (Current raised from 0.5A to 3.0A (power supply maximum))

thanks for your test

Can you repeat this test with the polarity reversed?  Does the output drop to ZERO regardless of the polarity of DC to L3?

thanks much
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: magpwr on May 15, 2014, 12:27:20 AM
  This circuit looks to me as if the main coils are very inefficient and can't even light the small 7 watt bulb to close to full brightness. And the addition of the copper tube adds inductance which enables the bulb to light brighter, and also causing a higher draw.
 I don't see anything special about this though. Not self running, and still draining it's source. It's also possible that the meter does read accurately what's really going on, and the additional draw is not showing up on the meter. 
  More light also normally means a higher draw, which will also drain the battery quicker. The test is to see how long it takes to drain a battery, with or without the copper rod.  I suspect the battery will drain much quicker with the rod in place. Unlike what is being shown by the meter.

hi NickZ,

The suspicion on high current draw which doesn't allow the meter to reveal the current spikes can be quelled easily by using a large capacitor around 1000uf...4700uf at the circuit input.
I have previously created a youtube "HV to current convertor 2.0" where current draw do not surge upon shorting 5 turns windings.There isn't any increase in current drawn via 1000uf capacitor at input.


The above experiment for this topic is valid.Quite similar concept to the "E-stress" device

Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: magpwr on May 15, 2014, 12:31:13 AM


hi NickZ,

The suspicion on high current draw which doesn't allow the meter to reveal the current spikes can be quelled easily by using a large capacitor around 1000uf...4700uf at the circuit input.
I have previously created a youtube "HV to current convertor 2.0" where current draw do not surge upon shorting 5 turns windings.There isn't any increase in current drawn via 1000uf capacitor at input.


The above experiment for this topic is valid.Quite similar concept to the "E-stress" device.

This is a good link with all the related replication videos-(The last video is always the best one capacitor in series with bulb)
http://realstrannik.ru/forum/19-svobodnaya-energiya/229-transformator-zaczarinina.html
 (http://realstrannik.ru/forum/19-svobodnaya-energiya/229-transformator-zaczarinina.html)
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: NoDrawBack on May 15, 2014, 08:44:00 AM
Hi!

you wrote:
>The suspicion on high current draw which doesn't allow the meter to reveal the current spikes
>can be quelled easily by using a large capacitor around 1000uf...4700uf at the circuit input.

In fact i have such a big CAP (1000uF) between the circuit and the supply which is just not been shown in the drawings and
video to not complicate this thing.

The cap is connected to the power supply via two diodes (now feedback possible) and a 50 watt Shunt of 0.1 Ohm for measuring the current via scope.
On the scope one could see just very little ripple (< 100mV) on DC voltage / current over shunt.

I do HF measurement since 20 years now and do not cheat myself....

Anyway - thanks to point this out - even I may overlook something someday  ;)

BTW: Yesterday i tried to use a cap on the output L1 and L2 to get DC from the "standing wave" mentioned - that thought was way to short - no DC as expected.
Afterwards obvious..... ::)

BUT: When connecting a CAP (10uF) on the OUTPUT L1, the INPUT drops from  500mA to 1mA !!!! Efficiency increased from 80% to 99% !!! Circuit runs on 1000uF CAP alone for several seconds !!
There is no feedback path to the CAP yet (remember i am using a diode in front of FET)- do not know how power is feed back?

Interesting! I have to take a closer look on this - just had a crude quick and dirty test yesterday and ran out of time - weekend can come....

Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: gyulasun on May 15, 2014, 12:30:42 PM

...
BUT: When connecting a CAP (10uF) on the OUTPUT L1, the INPUT drops from  500mA to 1mA !!!! Efficiency increased from 80% to 99% !!! Circuit runs on 1000uF CAP alone for several seconds !!
...

Hi NoDrawBack,

Please tell where exactly did you connect the 10uF cap?  Stefan shows a schematic on Page 1, first post of this thread, where the bifilar L1 is shown: with wire ends labeled as I and C and J and B
It is possible that the addition of the 10uF increases the AC impedance of the L1 by tuning it towards a parallel resonance, question is whether the brightness of the light bulb (indicated in the schematic as 220V/10W) changes by the 10uF addition or not?

Regarding the observation of member magpwr on the "masking" effect of using a large puffer capacitor:  it is okay that the sudden high current loads are taken from the puffer cap but once we take out charge from the puffer, the supply voltage feeding the cap should start to charge up the cap again, this would mean an increased current draw between the supply output and the cap for during the time the charge is restored in the cap, obviously this supply current would be much less than the sudden high current value. This could be seen across a (second) series current sense resistor placed between the output of the supply and the puffer cap. 
(This process would be analog to a flywheel when you take out mechanical energy from it suddenly and for a short time: the flywheel continues to spin but with a reduced speed, unless you supply the energy to the wheel to increase its rpm to the original one.)

Thanks for the great job you have been doing.
Gyula
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: Vortex1 on May 15, 2014, 05:21:13 PM
The reason the output goes to zero when DC is applied to L3:

Applying DC from a low impedance source such as a battery or well regulated power supply is effectively the same as shorting L3 as far as high frequencies are concerned. A suitable isolating (blocking) RF choke (inductor) must be added between the source of current and the L3 winding to prevent the effective short circuit.

The effective shorted L3 soaks all the power from the primary coil and dissipates it as heat.
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: NickZ on May 15, 2014, 06:14:27 PM
   It would still be a good to idea to test this circuit using a battery, first without the ferrite/copper rod inserted, and also, with the copper rod inside the air core. And do run time tests this way. Also to show a similar bulb running on the grid source, placed next to the test device.
  We really need to determine if the extra bulb brightness is also causing a higher draw, or not. Using higher wattage bulbs, like a 100 watt bulb would also help to displace further doubts.  Big claims need big proof. (1mA ???)
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: NoDrawBack on May 15, 2014, 10:03:51 PM
Sorry guys, was an accident. During the 1mA draw test i accidently changed the
DC offset of the function generator which caused the MOSFET not being switched - sorry for the hype....
(as mentioned it was just a crude test)

Anyway - i just made another test using a 220V, 75 Watt light bulb
I am able to get half the brightness, letz assume 30 Watts output.
The input is then 30V@3A equals approx. 90 Watt  whis represents power supply maximum.
(cannot rise voltage  due to MOSFET maximum, must increase duty to inrease power)

Connecting/Disconnecting the bulb does not influence the 3A input current
(used digital-meter, analog-meter and shunt+scope - all the same result - no change on input current/voltage)

The efficiency DOES drop with PWM duty  - that was known already - the lower, the better, but at least 5us for this coil!

sorry, have to cut here now - private issues - more at the weekend
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: NickZ on May 16, 2014, 01:12:16 AM
  Ok then, 90 watts input, and 30 watts approximate brightness from the 75 watt bulb.
This I can believe... if I understand it correctly. If not, please correct me.

Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: NoDrawBack on May 16, 2014, 10:11:56 AM
NickZ wrote:
>This I can believe... if I understand it correctly. If not, please correct me.

To clarify: During this 1mA test the light bulb was not connected to the curcuit. I just replaced the bulb by the 10uF cap - so i had no visual observation, just saw the 1mA on the input and then measured the input cap voltage when diconnecting the power supply. The voltage dropped slowly over a few seconds - of course due to no load.
(Accidently activated DC Offset at MOSFET Gate caused the MOSFET not to switch)

Back to topic:
Noone is claiming OU on this device/topic!
This thread should just and only concentrate on the fact that the INPUT does now drop, when a load is attached.
I still do not know/could not imagine how this is possible, how the (electro-)magnetic field here works and what exactly it does?

This device will newer become OU in this constellation, but we need to understand what is going on to built another device
which is able to gain from this effect in a different combination/layout/order/ratio.

We need a device which operates as some kind of regular transformer and uses this additional third NoDrawBack coil from it´s own "waste" somehow.
Remember: All KAPA´s have at least three coils....


Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: NickZ on May 16, 2014, 06:58:01 PM
  quote:
  "Noone is claiming OU on this device/topic!
This thread should just and only concentrate on the fact that the INPUT does now drop"
           end quote.


  So, does the input drop, now, or not?

  Possibly, the third coil can be connected back to the input, using a rectifier/capacitor, to see if it effects the 3 amp input draw. Otherwise the circuit is just an inverter.
  None of the Kapagen devices are self runners, but they can output several times the input source value.  That in itself is a good starting point.

   Below is a picture of what I'm working on now. Input source is an old 12v, 4aH battery. Output is partially lighting 500 to 700 watts worth of incandescent bulbs, drawing something like 35 to 48 watts.  I have also connected a feed back loop, from the smaller yoke back to the input side. The circuit is not self running, as is, yet.
 
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: magpwr on May 17, 2014, 03:55:04 AM
  quote:
  "Noone is claiming OU on this device/topic!
This thread should just and only concentrate on the fact that the INPUT does now drop"
           end quote.


  So, does the input drop, now, or not?

  Possibly, the third coil can be connected back to the input, using a rectifier/capacitor, to see if it effects the 3 amp input draw. Otherwise the circuit is just an inverter.
  None of the Kapagen devices are self runners, but they can output several times the input source value.  That in itself is a good starting point.

   Below is a picture of what I'm working on now. Input source is an old 12v, 4aH battery. Output is partially lighting 500 to 700 watts worth of incandescent bulbs, drawing something like 35 to 48 watts.  I have also connected a feed back loop, from the smaller yoke back to the input side. The circuit is not self running, as is, yet.

hi Nickz,

Please do take note full bridge rectifier are not designed for high frequency.Although it seems like a easy way.At high frequency these rectifiers won't able to provide the similar current handling capability due to recovery delay in ns or us in it's diodes.If you take a look at the datasheet near to the bottom of the pdf.There is something like frequency to current handling curve.

Do try assembling a full bridge rectifier which is able to support higher frequency using 200 or 400volts ultra fast diodes.
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: NickZ on May 17, 2014, 05:14:09 AM
  I asked Igor what diodes he uses on his home made full wave bridge rectifier. He mentioned any higher voltage ones, but was not specific about it. He uses the diodes that look just like mosfets. When drawing 2kw loads his diodes get hot, also.
  My Mazilli/yoke circuit is not really dealing with HV, I try to keep the volts around 120 to 160v, or so. Higher amps, yes, but it's non shocking current as well, and not the regular hot electricity or normal household wattage. 
  I probably have all the components to make a heftier bridge rectifier set up, and will do so, sometime soon.
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: Hoppy on May 17, 2014, 11:38:47 AM
  I asked Igor what diodes he uses on his home made full wave bridge rectifier. He mentioned any higher voltage ones, but was not specific about it. He uses the diodes that look just like mosfets. When drawing 2kw loads his diodes get hot, also.
  My Mazilli/yoke circuit is not really dealing with HV, I try to keep the volts around 120 to 160v, or so. Higher amps, yes, but it's non shocking current as well, and not the regular hot electricity or normal household wattage. 
  I probably have all the components to make a heftier bridge rectifier set up, and will do so, sometime soon.

The suggestion to use fast diodes for your FWBR is good advice. The ones that look like mosfets are in a TO220 package. A rating around 20A rating should be fine. Make sure you put then on a heat-sink and insulate if necessary.
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: NickZ on May 17, 2014, 07:57:44 PM
  Hoppy:
  I made this today, but I'm not sure what they are, if diodes or not. As I couldn't find any info on them.  Trying to make a bridge rectifier bank with them.
  Can you help...  The value written on them is:
   f   DH47AD
   FDP
   8896

Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: Hoppy on May 17, 2014, 08:42:48 PM
  Hoppy:
  I made this today, but I'm not sure what they are, if diodes or not. As I couldn't find any info on them.  Trying to make a bridge rectifier bank with them.
  Can you help...  The value written on them is:
   f   DH47AD
   FDP
   8896

Nick.

Those are N channel mosfets.

https://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/FD/FDP8896.pdf (https://www.fairchildsemi.com/ds/FD/FDP8896.pdf)
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: gyulasun on May 17, 2014, 10:02:34 PM
Hi NickZ,

I collected some ultra fast diode types at Digikey so that you could see the part numbers for them from 600V to 1200V breakdown voltages and from 8A to 15A forward current ratings.  (I do not mean to buy from Digikey of course.)  Here is the link:

http://tinyurl.com/fastdiodes (http://tinyurl.com/fastdiodes)

Perhaps you have a chance to find any of those types (or similar) near to your location.  MUR860G or MUR880EG are mainly used in switchmode power supplies and should be available at several places.  (There is the MURF860G type too which has a full plastic case insulation on its back and the through-hole, so no need for additional insulation when mounting on a heat sink.)

Gyula
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: NickZ on May 17, 2014, 11:28:00 PM
Thanks, I will look to see what I ha ve on hand first.
And will continue on the Daly thread.
Title: Re: KapaNoDrawBack circuit from a German friend
Post by: Farmhand on May 18, 2014, 03:20:37 AM
Lot's of resonant systems either see a reduction of input power or no change in input power when more loads are added, the effect is that when there is no load or part load a portion of the input is wasted as losses, then when more loads are added the efficiency improves. I see it quite often.

What matters is the useful output compared to the input provided by us. Without accurate in out power measurements claims mean very little.

..