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Author Topic: Current ridicule  (Read 40523 times)

Offline raburgeson

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Re: Current ridicule
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2014, 06:05:36 AM »
The simple definition of a gasoline engine is a (heat pump). As the piston is moving and both valves are open, even without the vacuum in the intake considered, the piston is not moving air in it's entire stroke. This limits the compression of the engine, there is literally less fuel/air mixture to compress. Removing valve overlap can quickly result in compression so high you can't start the engine. Add to this the vacuum of the intake manifold and you have less than one atmosphere of pressure for the compression stroke. As the intake valve is still open at a crucial time the vacuum lowers the chamber pressure and sucks heated exhaust into the chamber which is expanded already. This makes the power stroke far weaker.

Best situation is to suck in all the fuel/air mixture you can and and ignite the charge. Gasoline engines perform best around 15 to 1 compression. They have dropped the compression from 10 to 12 to 1 down to what you have today. It was common to have a horse power per cubic inch of displacement when I was young. In other words a hi proformance engine 350 had 335 HP and a 427 had 435 HP. You can still get hi proformance engines today but not from the factory. Example:

http://www.proformanceunlimited.com/

Of course they will not have factory cams and will be higher compression. Gasohol probably does not have a high enough octane to start these engines. I had a 1962 Jetstar convertible that required 104 octane to start, the label under the hood told you this fact. Lower octane fuel causes detonation damage in an engine with compression that high.

If you don't believe me grab a 2 1/2 or 3 1/2 horse power used lawnmower engine and grind the valve overlap out with a hand grinder. You will not be able to turn it over.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Current ridicule
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2014, 06:05:36 AM »

Offline MarkE

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Re: Current ridicule
« Reply #16 on: May 30, 2014, 07:19:22 AM »
The simple definition of a gasoline engine is a (heat pump). As the piston is moving and both valves are open, even without the vacuum in the intake considered, the piston is not moving air in it's entire stroke. This limits the compression of the engine, there is literally less fuel/air mixture to compress. Removing valve overlap can quickly result in compression so high you can't start the engine. Add to this the vacuum of the intake manifold and you have less than one atmosphere of pressure for the compression stroke. As the intake valve is still open at a crucial time the vacuum lowers the chamber pressure and sucks heated exhaust into the chamber which is expanded already. This makes the power stroke far weaker.

Best situation is to suck in all the fuel/air mixture you can and and ignite the charge. Gasoline engines perform best around 15 to 1 compression. They have dropped the compression from 10 to 12 to 1 down to what you have today. It was common to have a horse power per cubic inch of displacement when I was young. In other words a hi proformance engine 350 had 335 HP and a 427 had 435 HP. You can still get hi proformance engines today but not from the factory. Example:

http://www.proformanceunlimited.com/

Of course they will not have factory cams and will be higher compression. Gasohol probably does not have a high enough octane to start these engines. I had a 1962 Jetstar convertible that required 104 octane to start, the label under the hood told you this fact. Lower octane fuel causes detonation damage in an engine with compression that high.

If you don't believe me grab a 2 1/2 or 3 1/2 horse power used lawnmower engine and grind the valve overlap out with a hand grinder. You will not be able to turn it over.
What are you talking about?  Engines are routinely available in cars and trucks that have much higher power density than 1HP/in3.  Many of the engines offered by Honda, the world's largest manufacturer of ICEs, feature greater than 1.6HP/in3 burning today's gas, including with its HP robbing ethanol, and when measured using the SAE 2005 certification standards that are far more conservative than the standards used in the 1960's and 1970's. 4 cyl: K20Z3 1.61 HP/in3, K20Z4 1.64 HP/in3, K23A1 1.71 HP/in3... Honda's 6 cylinder engines tend more to 1.3HP/in3.  GM's supercharged Northstar engines came in around 1.7HP/in3

Offline raburgeson

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Re: Current ridicule
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2014, 02:16:20 AM »
All HP and no torque. I noticed that they must be using those 1 foot tall dinosaur horses now days too. Look a 383 magnum would flip a charger right on it's back if you let it when I was a kid. That 62 Jetstar with the 400 Rocket Olds ran like this! First gear terrible screaming of the tires. Shift. Tires slowing down and catch. You can't miss second when car jumps ahead. Engine slows and car jerks slower. You bounce ahead and floor the accelerator. There is a brief squeal from the rear tires and you hear the countershaft of the transmission ricochet off the pavement and hope it doesn't hit anything expensive. The Hurst Olds transmission couldn't take half the beating a super T could. I tell you that from experience. These new cars don't have it. They have had a lot of time to figure out how to improve engines.

Take 150 inch engines. 4 cylinder, six cylinder, 8 cylinder, 12 cylinder as the number of cylinders go up so does the horsepower. The reason why is the higher the number of cylinders the more power overlap you have. Power overlap is more than one cylinder in the power stoke at one time. 4 cylinders have no power overlap unless they are 2 cycle. I think there was one tried in the past (4 cylinder) that fired on both sides of the piston. It didn't pan out and was never developed. Brickland Turners joint effort developed an engine that was very interesting, check that one out. It was all horsepower and torque. It could have been scaled down to 300 HP and used. It wasn't to bad on gas either. The test engine had a single barrel carburetor and had around 700 HP, to much for a factory car.

One more time, what happened to the guy building ford V8s that was well over 200 MPG and fighting to get 300. He has disappeared from the net completely. Some one in here must remember.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Current ridicule
« Reply #17 on: June 06, 2014, 02:16:20 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline CuriousChris

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Re: Current ridicule
« Reply #18 on: June 06, 2014, 10:52:23 AM »
The ridicule leveled at some here is not current.

It is persistent and long standing.

Unlike overunity believers who swing to and fro in the prevailing winds, those that see fault in the false claims remain steadfast and consistent.

Criticism usually comes with an explanation as to why the claim is incorrect or off the mark or just a straight fabrication. That is the difference between believers who "want to believe" and skeptics who while they may want to believe as well, don't allow that desire cloud their judgement.

While every person on these forums is seeking to find cheaper, more efficient sources of energy. Not every person on this forum is prepared to be taken by fools, fakes and frauds.

Offline bugler

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Re: Current ridicule
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2014, 11:11:32 AM »
Things are not going to improve cause most people behave like kids uncapable of learning new things and, more difficult, changing concepts.
Until we identify the enemy things will get worse and worse.


The enemy is described clearly in this book: [size=78%]http://vho.org/aaargh/fran/livres/reeedcontrov.pdf[/size]


But most people cannot face the truth. Most attack the informer after a whole life being manipulated by the system.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Current ridicule
« Reply #19 on: June 06, 2014, 11:11:32 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline eatenbyagrue

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Re: Current ridicule
« Reply #20 on: June 06, 2014, 01:46:05 PM »
.

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: Current ridicule
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2014, 05:29:53 PM »
Things are not going to improve cause most people behave like kids uncapable of learning new things and, more difficult, changing concepts.
I agree.  People need to stop acting like kids.  Like that complex problems (How do we best use the raw materials we have? How do we best treat disease?) have ideological simple solutions (The government is suppressing the electric car, the pharmaceutical companies are suppressing natural remedies). 

That's what it really means to act like a kid:  To be ideologically driven.   To sort things into a simple "good guy/bad guy" dichotomy.  Many important questions are rarely that simple.
Quote
Until we identify the enemy things will get worse and worse.
We are the problem.
(http://abearsrant.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/pogo-we-have-met-the-enemy.jpg)


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Current ridicule
« Reply #21 on: June 06, 2014, 05:29:53 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline raburgeson

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Re: Current ridicule
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2014, 08:32:05 AM »
All right, check out the top stock holders in oil and auto and compare the lists. You will find the lists for railroads and others are about the same too. Bottom line is we pay monopoly prices for everything plus hidden taxes on all services rendered in between. We do not need a car that is hard to handle because it is over powered. We need cheap transportation until we can move to overunity. It can be done, the government has done it, killed for it, and stolen it. It's up to us to figure it out. They do not want us to have it. That would give people freedom. If you want to know their view on that watch this.

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/175971/Obama_Briefly_Explains_New_World_Order__2014/

They feel you are allowed to do what they allow you to do. They do not want you off the grid or traveling freely period.

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: Current ridicule
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2014, 04:42:09 PM »
All right, check out the top stock holders in oil and auto and compare the lists
Since you've obviously done this perhaps you can show us your work?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Current ridicule
« Reply #23 on: June 10, 2014, 04:42:09 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline MarkE

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Re: Current ridicule
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2014, 09:26:37 AM »
All HP and no torque. I noticed that they must be using those 1 foot tall dinosaur horses now days too. Look a 383 magnum would flip a charger right on it's back if you let it when I was a kid. That 62 Jetstar with the 400 Rocket Olds ran like this! First gear terrible screaming of the tires. Shift. Tires slowing down and catch. You can't miss second when car jumps ahead. Engine slows and car jerks slower. You bounce ahead and floor the accelerator. There is a brief squeal from the rear tires and you hear the countershaft of the transmission ricochet off the pavement and hope it doesn't hit anything expensive. The Hurst Olds transmission couldn't take half the beating a super T could. I tell you that from experience. These new cars don't have it. They have had a lot of time to figure out how to improve engines.

Take 150 inch engines. 4 cylinder, six cylinder, 8 cylinder, 12 cylinder as the number of cylinders go up so does the horsepower. The reason why is the higher the number of cylinders the more power overlap you have. Power overlap is more than one cylinder in the power stoke at one time. 4 cylinders have no power overlap unless they are 2 cycle. I think there was one tried in the past (4 cylinder) that fired on both sides of the piston. It didn't pan out and was never developed. Brickland Turners joint effort developed an engine that was very interesting, check that one out. It was all horsepower and torque. It could have been scaled down to 300 HP and used. It wasn't to bad on gas either. The test engine had a single barrel carburetor and had around 700 HP, to much for a factory car.

One more time, what happened to the guy building ford V8s that was well over 200 MPG and fighting to get 300. He has disappeared from the net completely. Some one in here must remember.
In your diatribe asserting that there is a conspiracy against fuel efficiency you incorrectly claimed that power to volume has gone down.  You cited 1 HP/in3 as how wonderful power / volume was in the great old days.  I have shown your claim is false:  Japanese and American car makers alike mass market production engines with almost twice the power density you cite. 

Now, you have switched to claiming that it's cylinder count and torque that is what's needed.  Once again you talk through your hat.  Friction losses per cylinder follow ring contact area which follows bore diameter.  But energy per stroke follows cylinder volume which follows the cube of the diameter.  Having lots of smaller cylinders to realize the same displacement runs up the relative friction losses.  As to having all the HP at the low end with lots of torque, that is another bad idea for automobile fuel economy.  A wide rpm range with a relatively flat torque curve coupled to a wide gear ratio transmission allows a car to operate at low power and low SFC at low rpms and high power when needed at high rpms.  This deals reasonably well with the stochiometric limit problem.  Over the past 40 years car makers have developed the variable valve timing, direct injection, and sophisticated engine controls to get amazingly flat torque curves compared to the cars of our fathers.

The guy who claimed several years ago to be building 300HP, 200mpg engines was a fraud.

Offline steeltpu

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Re: Current ridicule
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2014, 06:23:06 PM »
hey raburgeson,  ignore MarkE and his minions.   they are stuck in the clueless box or trolls of the PTB.   I know a guy that got 200 MPG from a full size vehicle and it is not fake and no not the Pogue carb.   what is taught about fuel to air mixture is false. 

btw what were you doing to get 35mpg on that old gas hog?   i'm currently working on a vehicle largely with electronics and expect to get at least double the manufacturer spec mpg.   it's already way better than spec.

                        

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Current ridicule
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2014, 06:23:06 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline MarkE

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Re: Current ridicule
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2014, 06:34:34 PM »
hey raburgeson,  ignore MarkE and his minions.   they are stuck in the clueless box or trolls of the PTB.   I know a guy that got 200 MPG from a full size vehicle and it is not fake and no not the Pogue carb.   what is taught about fuel to air mixture is false. 

btw what were you doing to get 35mpg on that old gas hog?   i'm currently working on a vehicle largely with electronics and expect to get at least double the manufacturer spec mpg.   it's already way better than spec.
Sure you know a guy ...  And where may one find an independent test report on this wonderful mythical car?

It's nice that you merely assert that the stoichiometric limits are BS.  I don't suppose you have any actual test data to support your assertion do you?

When you are done with your modifications you can take your car out for dynamometer testing.  Then you can report what you get for: mileage and pollutants.  Evaluating whether you burn valves and/or cause other damage by running ultra lean will require that you put a good deal of miles on the car. You can get a fiber optic bore scope and take pictures of one or more cylinders right before you start running with your modifications, and then periodically after.

Offline steeltpu

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  • Posts: 75
Re: Current ridicule
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2014, 09:29:09 PM »
what's the use responding to you as anything i say you will just claim is a lie.   try google.   start with Tom Ogle and his story.  only a little over 100 mpg with a ford galaxie 4000 pound car and it's not all about running lean but what state the fuel is in before getting to the cylinders.    there are a number of 200 plus mpg cars and i just happen to know one guy out of many.   got over 10,000 miles on my mods which have seen over 75% better mpg than the manufacturer says is the best highway mpg possible.   already a high mileage car and it's still running great.   but you'll just claim everything is say is a lie.  dig deep enough and you'll find info on the air/fuel mix lies but i suspect you already know that.

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: Current ridicule
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2014, 10:12:28 PM »
start with Tom Ogle and his story.
"story" is right.

Average car fuel efficiency = 23 mpg.
Average engine efficiency ~ 25-35%.

Hence a car running at 100% efficiency wouldn't be able to break 100 mpg and that's in a car that's likely 1000 lbs lighter than Tom Ogle's.  Not to mention that a car that is 100% efficient would produce no noise.  Something missing from the scant reports of Ogle.

Most likely conclusion:  Tom was wrong.

Offline steeltpu

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  • Posts: 75
Re: Current ridicule
« Reply #29 on: June 12, 2014, 05:00:51 AM »
ahh nazikrees did they give you a pay raise to finally expand to bashing another message thread beside quentron?   lol  .   guess you missed the 300mpg vw?   scant reports of ogle?  hardly scant as there are newspapers that ran his story.  try this one  http://fuel-efficient-vehicles.org/energy-news/?page_id=787      as i recall he got a lot of attention and suddenly had a lot of money.   then still in his 20's he supposedly died of a drug or alcohol overdose.    imo the ptb gave him a good amount of money so he would do what most young people would do when they lose a friend.  his friend was killed when a car jack supposedly gave out and crushed him.   so Tom gets drunk.   At that point i'll bet they slipped drugs into his drink which OD'd him.  easy solution to their problem of how to make the 100 mpg full size ford go away. 



 

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