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Author Topic: COP 20.00 (2000%) Times, Reactive Power Energy Source Generator,  (Read 200123 times)

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: COP 20.00 (2000%) Times, Reactive Power Energy Source Generator,
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2014, 06:52:55 PM »
.... based on the device and measurements I showed in the QEG thread.

Where exactly ?
Please post exact URL to the posting. Sorry as I am very busy I can´t read all threads...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline hartiberlin

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Re: COP 20.00 (2000%) Times, Reactive Power Energy Source Generator,
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2014, 07:00:12 PM »

.... and if that reactive power is not returned to the grid ...


Indeed it is returned. that is why it is only using 1.1 real active Watts in this case
and the reactive power oscillates back and forth between grid and your device.

And in the device it is used as Real Active power...!

But the grid sees it coming back as reactive power, so you don´t need
mechanical power in the generator to produce it, it just oscillates back and forth..

So you don´t need to burn oil or cole to produce it...

Offline Farmhand

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Re: COP 20.00 (2000%) Times, Reactive Power Energy Source Generator,
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2014, 10:35:19 PM »
Well for energy to be transferred to the load then power must be consumed, if the power is returned to the grid then it is not
consumed and so it did no work that is reactive power, if the power does work then it is consumed and therefore cannot return to
the supply.

There must be a mistake or a deception at play. We cannot use power then return it to the supply, it's as simple as that. Once we
use it as real power then it is gone out of the system. If it does not leave the system then it isn't dissipated and so it is not output.

I treat those guys like politicians, unless there is hard proof of what they say you can bet it's all lies. There must be a play on words
which means not what it says.

Of course time will tell, but that is what they all prey on, it goes on forever with never any real useful info or anything just a baited hook.

None of it makes any sense at all, there is no logic to it and absolutely no reason to believe anything that any associates of Aaron Murikami say.

I've said my piece so I won't argue any more. to put it simply Energy cannot be created and we can only dissipate energy from a
system once, as soon as any energy is dissipated as work it is no longer in the system. We cannot dissipate energy out of a
system as work then miraculously have it back again to dissipate once more.

..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: COP 20.00 (2000%) Times, Reactive Power Energy Source Generator,
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2014, 10:35:19 PM »
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Offline forest

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Re: COP 20.00 (2000%) Times, Reactive Power Energy Source Generator,
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2014, 11:01:18 PM »
Farmhand

Are you sure that the electrical energy inside wires is converted into heat and light on bulbs ?
I know you can imagine a resonant system wih a perfect bulb which do not change resistance during time...how is that powered by less input power .... got the idea ?

Offline Farmhand

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Re: COP 20.00 (2000%) Times, Reactive Power Energy Source Generator,
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2014, 11:02:49 PM »
And as for Eric Dollard, In my opinion he is doing his reputation irreparable damage by associating with them and contradicting himself.

In a recent posting he claims that a distribution transformer can be used to create a VLF Tesla system and compares pole
transformers to Tesla coils, saying that a 1/4 wave resonant distribution transformer at resonance will act like a Tesla transformer.

And after all his postings about how the Tesla transformer is special and all, then he comes out and says a pole transformer will do
the same at low frequency. Go figure. A Tesla coil is not required for ground wave transmissions. It can be done with about any transformer.
Nothing special about the Tesla transformer as far as energy transmission goes. Nada. Eric made himself obsolete with that posting.
He is full of contradictions.

..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: COP 20.00 (2000%) Times, Reactive Power Energy Source Generator,
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2014, 11:02:49 PM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: COP 20.00 (2000%) Times, Reactive Power Energy Source Generator,
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2014, 11:55:07 PM »
Forest your post makes no sense to me. If you are trying to tell me we can dissipate energy as output then still have it in the system
then you're wasting your time.

Power is not energy.  C.O.P. > 1.0 means more energy out than we put in.

Now How much energy is input and how much energy is output over the entire period from startup to shutdown ?
If you don't know then you can hardly determine the efficiency. Energy is energy and power is the rate of energy application
dissipation ect. To get an efficiency figure we must compare "real" power in to "real" power output or compare energy input to
energy output. There is not enough information given to make any determination ourselves, we are only getting what we are told.

I still say that we are not shown the entire story, and until we have it we can only speculate, nothing is proven.

The power dissipated by the load is output (real power) and the power returned to the grid is reactive power. Reactive power is not used as by definition reactive power is unused power returning to the grid, any power dissipated by a load is real power by definition.
..

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: COP 20.00 (2000%) Times, Reactive Power Energy Source Generator,
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2014, 04:46:35 AM »
Farmhead , you have not understood the principle.
Surely WITHOUT switching the quarter waveforms in polarity it will not work.

Only if you use the trick to switch the polarity of the caps in the circuit every quarter wavelength or so it will work that you have many negative input power curves.

Look at the red MATH traces of the posted device .
But you are probably not used to interpret these waveforms.
Forest your post makes no sense to me. If you are trying to tell me we can dissipate energy as output then still have it in the system
then you're wasting your time.

Power is not energy.  C.O.P. > 1.0 means more energy out than we put in.

Now How much energy is input and how much energy is output over the entire period from startup to shutdown ?
If you don't know then you can hardly determine the efficiency. Energy is energy and power is the rate of energy application
dissipation ect. To get an efficiency figure we must compare "real" power in to "real" power output or compare energy input to
energy output. There is not enough information given to make any determination ourselves, we are only getting what we are told.

I still say that we are not shown the entire story, and until we have it we can only speculate, nothing is proven.

The power dissipated by the load is output (real power) and the power returned to the grid is reactive power. Reactive power is not used as by definition reactive power is unused power returning to the grid, any power dissipated by a load is real power by definition.
..
Surely without a good block or circuit diagram it is hard to grasp.

I hope that they will post something like this pretty soon....

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: COP 20.00 (2000%) Times, Reactive Power Energy Source Generator,
« Reply #36 on: July 11, 2014, 04:46:35 AM »
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Offline SeaMonkey

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Re: COP 20.00 (2000%) Times, Reactive Power Energy Source Generator,
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2014, 07:31:58 AM »
With a properly crafted capacitive switching system it
may be possible to "fool" the digital power meters into
thinking that power is being delivered to the grid.

Charging capacitors parallel connected through the load
at certain points in the AC cycle, then discharging the
capacitors series connected, through the load, back into
the grid at certain points in the AC cycle may do the trick.

It would depend on the sampling algorithm employed by
the firmware/software within the meter and how it determines
the direction of power movement and its magnitude.

Working out the needed timing for the switching events
would be fairly easy to figure out.

The "secret" to the device, from what has been revealed
thus far, seems to be well timed high speed switching.

If indeed it is a device which utilizes high-tech trickery
to accomplish what seems to be over-unity, it will be
decreed "illegal" by the authorities.


Offline Farmhand

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Re: COP 20.00 (2000%) Times, Reactive Power Energy Source Generator,
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2014, 08:40:44 AM »
I don't need to be an engineer or be able to interpret wave forms (that may be generated in a way not stated), to be able to
understand the basic principals of energy delivery and reactive power.

Real power delivers energy to a load and we do not get it back.

Reactive power does not deliver energy to the load and we do get it back.

Any power dissipated in a load is real power, and we do not get it back, reactive power we do get back because it was not consumed.

I explained in the QEG thread the basic method that could be employed with switches to show a returning power to the load
greater than the applied power for a time. EDIT: During the time the reactive power is being stored the input would be much
greater than the output, this could be done in a fraction of a cycle and on a cycle by cycle basis in order to out speed the meter.

Basically the device is started showing a less than 1.0 power factor then the reactive power is stored locally in the device for a time
before being applied back to the grid at a higher voltage and in phase to show for a time a greater power in than out, but it is not
sustainable indefinitely or with all loads.

That's just one way, another is as SeaMonkey said the switching scheme may be "engineered" to fool the meters, or just as simply the circuit could be configured to show improper measurements.

Truth is we do not know if any of those are in play and neither do we know if they are legitimate or more scams or just mistaken.

I say without a schematic we have no choice but to design our own schemes or just wait to see if in several years anything
comes of it.

..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: COP 20.00 (2000%) Times, Reactive Power Energy Source Generator,
« Reply #38 on: July 11, 2014, 08:40:44 AM »
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Offline hartiberlin

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Re: COP 20.00 (2000%) Times, Reactive Power Energy Source Generator,
« Reply #39 on: July 11, 2014, 03:36:06 PM »
Well Seamonkey and Farmhand you are both wrong.

Have again a look at this below picture.

Look at the lower RED MATH traces.

THESE ARE POWER WAVEFORMS where above the groundline
areas mean positive input power and below the groundline means
negative input power, that means returning power to the
grid !

Left scopeshot shows the grid input ( here labled: Transformer output power)
You clearly see a sinus like wave
so  power is delivered to the circuit, BUT also almost the same amount of power again returned to the grid,
so the average input power is only 1.1 Watts !

At the right scopeshot you see the Math trace only above the groundline,
meaning, that at the lamp only positive real active power is lighting up the lamps.

I guess Seamonkey and Farmhand  should wait with further postings, until a block circuit diagramm
is posted, so further antipostings without discussing the switching technology behind it
are considdered as Trolling....

Regards, Stefan.

Offline picowatt

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Re: COP 20.00 (2000%) Times, Reactive Power Energy Source Generator,
« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2014, 08:09:57 PM »
Well Seamonkey and Farmhand you are both wrong.

Have again a look at this below picture.

Look at the lower RED MATH traces.

THESE ARE POWER WAVEFORMS where above the groundline
areas mean positive input power and below the groundline means
negative input power, that means returning power to the
grid !

Left scopeshot shows the grid input ( here labled: Transformer output power)
You clearly see a sinus like wave
so  power is delivered to the circuit, BUT also almost the same amount of power again returned to the grid,
so the average input power is only 1.1 Watts !

At the right scopeshot you see the Math trace only above the groundline,
meaning, that at the lamp only positive real active power is lighting up the lamps.

I guess Seamonkey and Farmhand  should wait with further postings, until a block circuit diagramm
is posted, so further antipostings without discussing the switching technology behind it
are considdered as Trolling....

Regards, Stefan.

Has anyone seen any power measurements taken directly at the line input?

In the OP video, as they adjust the Variac, the voltage reading on the meter used to read the power to/from the line varies.  This indicates that the line input power, at the least, is being measured after the variac (even though the demonstrator in the video states what is being indicated is line input power).

In the image posted above with the two scope captures, the input power capture is labeled "transformer output".  The voltage trace is omitted on the "transformer output" capture, and cannot be assumed to be line voltage (in the OP video, there is a large power transformer near the load resistor).  It is possible that, as in the OP video, the input power is being measured after the Variac and/or transformer output, and again, not directly at the line input.

The point is, I have not seen any data that directly shows the line input power (not even a simple kill-a-watt).  Possibly I have just not seen it.  If line input data has been posted, could someone please direct me to it?

Thanks,

PW

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: COP 20.00 (2000%) Times, Reactive Power Energy Source Generator,
« Reply #40 on: July 11, 2014, 08:09:57 PM »
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Offline SeaMonkey

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Re: COP 20.00 (2000%) Times, Reactive Power Energy Source Generator,
« Reply #41 on: July 11, 2014, 09:48:46 PM »
Without reference to the input AC Wave
it is rather difficult to interpret the
depiction of the scope displays.

In any case, attaching a device to the grid
which extracts many times more power from
the grid than would be registered on the
Power Meter would appear, to the power
provider, to be theft of service.

If the device, when attached to a portable
generator, does indeed deliver more power
to a load than is actually provided by the
generator and without loading the generator
then it may have merit.

Any surplus power provided to the load must
come from somewhere;  from some phenomenon
which can be easily understood.  Reactive Power
is not an answer.

Offline bugler

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Re: COP 20.00 (2000%) Times, Reactive Power Energy Source Generator,
« Reply #42 on: July 11, 2014, 11:09:46 PM »
Anyway, here is the reality as I see it:  Aaron's clip is nothing more than a cynical ploy to sell more tickets so that he can hit his $70K target. 
Aaron is a dishonest person. Just look at the ASEA scam he is supporting.




Offline Farmhand

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Re: COP 20.00 (2000%) Times, Reactive Power Energy Source Generator,
« Reply #43 on: July 11, 2014, 11:54:07 PM »
There is a lot to be said for "credibility" and Aaron has none in my view. Time and time again he shows his true colors, which is
money money money. Eric Dollard bad mouthed Aaron and Peter and John Bedini vehemently claiming they were fraudsters.
Now he sits at the bench with them. Why, Money.

We ought to be able to consider peoples claims based on "credibility", people who continually make false and silly claims don't have it.
People who may not be highly trained but are honest and have life experience a plenty can see easily when people that have no
credibility are making a bogus claim.

I don't think I've been wrong about a scam job yet. At least no one that has claimed OU that I have asked for better evidence
can produce any legitimate results.

The wave forms could be produced any old how, I noticed the Transformer output power shot was missing a trace but chose not to
dwell on that as I was unsure as to why. SeaMonkey cleared that up. I don't miss much, and I've lived around deceptive people
for so long in my life i can pick a scammer in seconds. A skill that helps a lot in real life.

It's difficult to believe anything said by a man who claims a bouncing ball is OU, it's just as difficult to believe his associates when
they don't correct him on it, because that indicates they are prepared to allow lies in the name of money or they also believe
a bouncing ball is OU. Either way it harms the credibility of all his associates. Thick as thieves, lay with the dog you get fleas
kind of thing.

I would not be hanging waiting for a schematic from them on this device, I would look to the patent and only one that is granted.
If they give a schematic how can we even know the schematic is the same as the device ?

The Shimada guy has a patent on this kind of tech., I would bet they are simply copying his principals but with a slightly different
switching scheme, different enough to patent maybe or maybe not, many people lodge patent applications just to get some
street credibility, it works for some too, at least for a time with some people.

I did post the Shimada paper here didn't I, that contains a lot of relevant info on the principal and some switching schemes.
That's a technical contribution to the discussion. But no discussion on that.

..

Offline SeaMonkey

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Re: COP 20.00 (2000%) Times, Reactive Power Energy Source Generator,
« Reply #44 on: July 12, 2014, 01:21:31 AM »
While I was at Mobile Technical Unit 7, U.S. Naval Station,
Yokosuka, Japan, in the 70s, I repaired our AC Voltage Stabilizer
Unit which functioned much as the device Shimada patented.

The device we used was the Ferro-Resonant version with SCRs
to accomplish the switching.

It was intended for use with 60 Hz power but someone inadvertently
connected it to the 50 Hz Japanese grid power and blew the SCRs.

We did have a small 60 Hz distribution system in our shop where
all receptacles were clearly marked as either 60 Hz / 120 Volts or
50 Hz / 100 Volts.  Apparently, one of our technical representatives
was not aware that the device was frequency sensitive or accidentally
plugged it in to the wrong receptacle momentarily.  That was all it took
to render it in need of repair.

The device weighed about 50 pounds and was capable of 1 Kilowatt
output of Voltage Stabilized 60 Hz AC.

 

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