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Author Topic: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!  (Read 207934 times)

Offline gravityblock

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #195 on: June 03, 2014, 06:22:29 AM »
Man did I have you pegged.It's always the same with you guys.  :DI asked you to define that in terms that are useful to me.  You have refused to do so and have refused to admit you don't understand. Why is that?

There is no better definition that is more useful to you, other than your own definition, and you have refused to provide this.

Gravock

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #196 on: June 03, 2014, 06:24:23 AM »
the rectilinear mathematical equations is evidence of a time element. 
If by "rectilinear mathematical equations" you mean his use of drawing "steps" and claiming (or at least appearing to) that this correctly measures the arc.   Then it's not evidence of anything if it doesn't do that and I think you know that it doesn't.

Are you saying that you don't see how this would come up with a different value for the pythagorean theorem?

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #197 on: June 03, 2014, 06:30:31 AM »
There is no better definition that is more useful to you, other than your own definition, and you have refused to provide this.
Are you high?  What we are talking about is YOUR concept.  How can you demand that I provide a definition for YOUR concept?

All I did was ask you to frame it in a manner grounded in Axiomatic Set Theory.  The point of using ZF(C) is so that mathematics has a common understanding of how things are proven.  One that is free of ambiguity.

So either you don't know how to do this and are too much of an enormous gaping asshole to admit it OR you are deliberately dragging your heels (or perhaps something else but the first one seems the most likely. :D :D :D ).

Offline MarkE

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #198 on: June 03, 2014, 06:37:08 AM »


This is not what I asked you.  I asked you, "If you disagree with his statement, then please show how the perimeter changes after each step."  You once again try to take a circular path with a time element and turn it into a circle with no time element.

Gravock
LOL, as has been pointed out to you as well as Miles Mathis, the method fails to correctly determine the length of even a single line segment that is not parallel to one of the ordinate axes.  The perimeter of the object doesn't change:  It is what it is.  And the hapless Mathis method of determining that perimeter starts with an inaccurate estimate and never improves.

Offline gravityblock

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #199 on: June 03, 2014, 07:00:20 AM »
If by "rectilinear mathematical equations" you mean his use of drawing "steps" and claiming (or at least appearing to) that this correctly measures the arc.   Then it's not evidence of anything if it doesn't do that and I think you know that it doesn't.

Are you saying that you don't see how this would come up with a different value for the pythagorean theorem?

Why are you trying to change the subject by bringing in Pythagorean theorem?  The  Pythagorean theorem does not hold in a non-Euclidean geometry.  Google it!

Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #200 on: June 03, 2014, 07:08:50 AM »
Are you high?  What we are talking about is YOUR concept.  How can you demand that I provide a definition for YOUR concept?

All I did was ask you to frame it in a manner grounded in Axiomatic Set Theory.  The point of using ZF(C) is so that mathematics has a common understanding of how things are proven.  One that is free of ambiguity.

So either you don't know how to do this and are too much of an enormous gaping asshole to admit it OR you are deliberately dragging your heels (or perhaps something else but the first one seems the most likely. :D :D :D ).

It is you, who is high.  Pi is not my concept and neither is a dimensionless constant a concept of mine.  I am not demanding that you provide a definition of MY concept as you wrongly asserted.  Is pi a dimensionless constant or not?  Is the circumference only a length, and/or only a distance in a circular path with a time element?  It is you, who is deliberately dragging your heels in answering these simple questions.

Gravock

Offline MarkE

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #201 on: June 03, 2014, 07:19:28 AM »
It's just too bad for you that you eschew proven methods that can determine very accurate approximations for straight line and arc lengths for a method that is a proven failure for the same tasks.

Offline gravityblock

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #202 on: June 03, 2014, 07:22:52 AM »
It's just too bad for you that you eschew proven methods that can determine very accurate approximations for straight line and arc lengths for a method that is a proven failure for the same tasks.

Another useless statement and another assertion made by you.

Gravock

Offline sarkeizen

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #203 on: June 03, 2014, 07:39:19 AM »
Why are you trying to change the subject by bringing in Pythagorean theorem?
I'm not.  Have you done ANY math?  This is just a simple high-school level proof by contradiction.  Assume that your hero the Mathless-Wonder's assertion is true: That drawing steps accurately determines the length of an arc.  Which would imply that it correctly measures a line segment.  However it can not correctly measure the hypotenuse of a triangle.  Which we know is true through approximately 100 other proofs.

QED.  He is wrong about this.  I get that the first time is hard but the next time you doubt your god...or whatever it will be easier.

Pi is not my concept and neither is a dimensionless constant a concept of mine.
I asked you to define what YOU mean.  Do you understand that bit?  Do I need to use smaller words?  If not, how is it possible that you do not understand that idea in your head that you label "dimensionless number" is YOUR CONCEPT of a "dimensionless number".  Not only that but it is the version of the term that can be most usefully argued with YOU.
Quote
I am not demanding that you provide a definition of MY concept as you wrongly asserted.
Either you don't know what you are talking about (entirely possible) or we are discussing an idea that is in your head.  If it's in your head.  Then it is, for the purposes of this discussion YOUR CONCEPT.  I can't be asked to usefully define that any more than I can be asked to determine how much head trauma was required for you to accept Mathis's claims.

It seems pretty clear that you don't understand what I'm asking you for.  It is also pretty clear you are too much of an asshole to admit it. :D
Quote
It is you, who is deliberately dragging your heels in answering these simple questions
Please just stop showing how little you know about math.  You were not elected, at any time to the high-council of what gets decided on as simple.  Is 1+1 simple?  There are proofs for that range from 50 lemmas long to the one in Principa Mathematica which is hundreds of pages long.  The point of a set-theoretic approach is to avoid ambiguity.

Offline MarkE

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #204 on: June 03, 2014, 07:46:17 AM »
Another useless statement and another assertion made by you.

Gravock
LOL.  Archimedes method for determining the circumference in relation to a circle's diameter is excellent.  His method starts out with barely 1% path length error  in the first pass, 0.07% in the third pass and 0.004% in the fifth pass that he worked out by hand 2000 years ago.  This is an easily verified historical and mathematical fact.    On the other hand  as is readily demonstrated with a string, some thumb tacks, a ruler and a soda can or any other cylinder by any fourth grader, your path length estimate comes out with an initial error of over 25%.  A string of length 4 * D wraps the cylinder base one full turn and more than another 90 degrees.  By your own admission your inept method does not improve from that very inaccurate estimate no matter how many iterations one takes.

You can check these numbers on a calculator of your choice.


Offline gravityblock

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #205 on: June 03, 2014, 08:07:23 AM »
LOL.  Archimedes method for determining the circumference in relation to a circle's diameter is excellent.  His method starts out with barely 1% path length error  in the first pass, 0.07% in the third pass and 0.004% in the fifth pass that he worked out by hand 2000 years ago.  This is an easily verified historical and mathematical fact.    On the other hand  as is readily demonstrated with a string, some thumb tacks, a ruler and a soda can or any other cylinder by any fourth grader, your path length estimate comes out with an initial error of over 25%.  A string of length 4 * D wraps the cylinder base one full turn and more than another 90 degrees.  By your own admission your inept method does not improve from that very inaccurate estimate no matter how many iterations one takes.

You can check these numbers on a calculator of your choice.

Once again, you have taken the time element out of the equation, and this does not represent the real world!  Why did the yellow car win the race, even though it travelled a greater distance while having the same net fall as the green car?

Gravock

Offline MarkE

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #206 on: June 03, 2014, 08:30:20 AM »
Once again, you have taken the time element out of the equation, and this does not represent the real world!  Why did the yellow car win the race, even though it travelled a greater distance while having the same net fall as the green car?

Gravock
LOL, I didn't take out what was not there in the first place.  You cannot show that your hapless Manhattan method correctly estimates the path length of an arc, or even the length of a single line segment that is not parallel to one of the ordinate axes.  So much for your math.

Now, you are back to trying to change the subject again.  True to form, you have not established by equation or demonstration that either car won the race.  Given the dimensions, and taking certain simplifying assumptions we could solve the equations of motion and find the expected winner.  The car on the steeper track accelerates faster and has a higher average speed.  When the track horizontal run is long enough that average speed makes up for the increased path length.

Offline gravityblock

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #207 on: June 03, 2014, 08:45:41 AM »
LOL, I didn't take out what was not there in the first place.  You cannot show that your hapless Manhattan method correctly estimates the path length of an arc, or even the length of a single line segment that is not parallel to one of the ordinate axes.  So much for your math.

Now, you are back to trying to change the subject again.  True to form, you have not established by equation or demonstration that either car won the race.  Given the dimensions, and taking certain simplifying assumptions we could solve the equations of motion and find the expected winner.  The car on the steeper track accelerates faster and has a higher average speed.  When the track horizontal run is long enough that average speed makes up for the increased path length.

The video clearly demonstrates which car wins the race, and that is the yellow car which takes the longest path.  This is not changing the subject.  This has to do with acceleration and distance.

Gravock

Offline MarkE

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #208 on: June 03, 2014, 09:02:41 AM »
The video clearly demonstrates which car wins the race, and that is the yellow car which takes the longest path.  This is not changing the subject.  This has to do with acceleration and distance.

Gravock
LOL, the video?  You posted a static .png picture without any links.  It is still off the subject.  It is still well understood.  It still has nothing to do with your silly proposition that a Manhattan route yields a correct perimeter distance.

See if you can find a flaw in the following experiment that any fourth grader can perform. What does the fact that a string wrapped around the base of the cylinder only makes it about 79% around the square tell you?  What does the fact that a string wrapped tightly around the square makes it all the way around the circle and more than another 90 degrees tell you?


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #209 on: June 03, 2014, 12:47:04 PM »
If by "rectilinear mathematical equations" you mean his use of drawing "steps" and claiming (or at least appearing to) that this correctly measures the arc.   Then it's not evidence of anything if it doesn't do that and I think you know that it doesn't.

Are you saying that you don't see how this would come up with a different value for the pythagorean theorem?

I think it would be rather hilarious to take a walk in the city with gravock. When you come to that vacant lot and want to cut across the diagonal to get over to the next Starbuck's... he will be constrained to make little right-angled segments that are parallel to the streets, while you simply walk the diagonal and get your decaf nonfat Grande Latte halfway drunk by the time he walks in the door.