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Author Topic: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!  (Read 207856 times)

Offline MarkE

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #120 on: May 22, 2014, 04:41:08 AM »
MarkE,

Your last few posts gave me some valuable insight into how you think.  You perceive time as not being real and is a man made concept used for measurement.  I don't agree!  However, by knowing how you perceive things, it will allow me to have a more productive debate with you from here on out.

Gravock
Time has nothing to do with plane geometry.  It doesn't matter how many times you try and redefine mathematics or physics in some contrived style such as Mathis, you've placed yourself on the wrong end of well demonstrated facts.  If this is all an exercise in performance art, you are putting on a very tedious show.

Offline gravityblock

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #121 on: May 22, 2014, 10:08:18 AM »
Time has nothing to do with plane geometry.  It doesn't matter how many times you try and redefine mathematics or physics in some contrived style such as Mathis, you've placed yourself on the wrong end of well demonstrated facts.  If this is all an exercise in performance art, you are putting on a very tedious show.

You didn't confirm or deny my statement on how you perceive time as not being real and is only a man made concept used for measurement.  You are keeping the show very tedious by an exercise in performance art in how muddy you can muddy a topic.

Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #122 on: May 22, 2014, 10:58:35 AM »
A plane geometry object has nothing to do with time.  Plane geometry is a field of mathematics.

Distance or space is a form of measurement and is used in mathematics.  Since plane geometry is a field of mathematics, then distance or space is relevant in plane geometry according to the definition given by.  Likewise, Time is a form of measurement and is used in the field of mathematics, regardless if it is real or not, thus Time is relevant in plane geometry by your definition.  Just because plane geometry in its current form makes no use of Time, doesn't mean Time is irrelevant in plane geometry and has no place in it.  I even provided you with an illustration in how Time can be used in plane geometry in the same fashion as distance is used in plane geometry.  You can not confine or place limits on plane geometry, or anything else, according to your limited process of thinking.

Gravock

Offline MarkE

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #123 on: May 22, 2014, 02:37:27 PM »
Zzzzzzzz.

Offline gravityblock

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #124 on: May 23, 2014, 01:15:47 AM »
You are once again claiming things you are not showing. I showed my work and where I got my numbers from, remember? And I didn't use false precision either.


You did not show where you got your numbers from.  The tangential velocity in your post is not based on empirical data or a real physical measurement.  How did you calculate the tangential velocity?  Please provide the equation you used for this.

Gravock 

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #125 on: May 23, 2014, 03:29:30 AM »
You did not show where you got your numbers from.  The tangential velocity in your post is not based on empirical data or a real physical measurement.  How did you calculate the tangential velocity?  Please provide the equation you used for this.

Gravock

Having trouble reading? Here, I'll quote the post again. Note what it says in the first few sentences.  If you try very hard I'll bet you might be able to follow through the math.
I see that reference frames also confuse you. Hint: There is a reference frame in which the orbit of the Earth about the sun is not a helix, but rather is a closed ellipse of very low eccentricity.

Quote
Earth's orbital radius = about 149.6 million km. Duration of one full orbit is of course one sidereal year, 365.256 days or about 31,558,118 seconds.
(wikipedia).

The tangential velocity of the Earth in its orbit is 29814 meters per second, derived from v2=GMs/r. (That is, from PHYSICAL MEASUREMENTS.)

Now let us calculate.
(EVERYTHING AFTER THIS POINT IS CALCULATION AS SHOWN, WITH UNITS INCLUDED.)
Quote
The circumference of the orbit (assuming pi = 3.1416 and a circular orbit) is 2 x pi x 149.6 million km, or about 939.97 million km.

The tangential speed computed from the radius and the conventional value of pi is therefore 939.97 million km / 31,558,118 seconds or about 29785 meters/second.

The diameter of the orbit is about 299.2 million km. Traversing this distance at the tangential velocity of 29814 m/sec will therefore take about 10035553 seconds. Four times that is 40,142,212 seconds... but a year is only 31,558,118 seconds.  Curiously.... 10035553 x  3.1416 = about 31,527,693 seconds.... nearly exactly the number of seconds in a sidereal year.

Conclusion.....  The value of pi, for the real figure of the Earth's orbit, taking TIME and velocity into account, must be very close to 3.1416, and not close at all to 4.

Please feel free to show a working that demonstrates otherwise.


Please feel free to SHOW A WORKING that demonstrates otherwise. Be sure to include your units, and try to avoid fake precision.

Offline gravityblock

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #126 on: May 23, 2014, 08:23:49 AM »
Earth's orbital radius = about 149.6 million km. Duration of one full orbit is of course one sidereal year, 365.256 days or about 31,558,118 seconds.
(wikipedia).

The tangential velocity of the Earth in its orbit is 29814 meters per second, derived from v2=GMs/r.

Now let us calculate.
The circumference of the orbit (assuming pi = 3.1416 and a circular orbit) is 2 x pi x 149.6 million km, or about 939.97 million km.

The tangential speed computed from the radius and the conventional value of pi is therefore 939.97 million km / 31,558,118 seconds or about 29785 meters/second.

The diameter of the orbit is about 299.2 million km. Traversing this distance at the tangential velocity of 29814 m/sec will therefore take about 10035553 seconds. Four times that is 40,142,212 seconds... but a year is only 31,558,118 seconds.  Curiously.... 10035553 x  3.1416 = about 31,527,693 seconds.... nearly exactly the number of seconds in a sidereal year.

Conclusion.....  The value of pi, for the real figure of the Earth's orbit, taking TIME and velocity into account, must be very close to 3.1416, and not close at all to 4.

Please feel free to show a working that demonstrates otherwise.

@ All,

I do not agree with the calculations and the values used by TK.  Now, pay close attention.  Pi = 4 is the ratio between the Distance + Time of the circumference and the diameter.  However, Pi = 3.14 is the ratio between only the distance of the circumference and the diameter.  Below is the mathematical proof and it is based on Frank Znidarsic's quantum transitional speed of 1.0939 MHz meters or 1,094,000 m/s.  We'll use the values in which TK has provided.  Then we'll reconcile the differences between his values and the values in which I accept in a later post, assuming of course he concedes from his current positon.

According to TK's values, the diameter of the orbit is about 299.2 million km. Traversing this distance at the tangential velocity of 29814 m/sec will therefore take about 10035553 seconds. Four times that is 40,142,212 seconds... but a year is only 31,558,118 seconds.  Curiously.... 10035553 x  3.1416 = about 31,527,693 seconds.... nearly exactly the number of seconds in a sidereal year.

4 * 10035553 seconds = 40,142,212 seconds, and 3.1416 * 10035553 seconds = 31,527,693 seconds

40,142,212 seconds / 31,527,693 seconds = 1.27200906 or 4 / 3.14 = 1.27...
4 - 3.14 = 0.86
1.27200906 * 0.86 = 1.093927791, which is equal to the quantum transitional speed of 1.094 MHz meters or 1,094,000 m/s.  The quantum transitional speed is directly tied to the Planck's constant, the fine structure constant, the speed of light, the speed of sound in the nuclear structure of the atom, etc.

The taxicab geometry is showing the distance + the Time of the circumference is 4 times longer than the distance + the Time of the diameter.  MarkE is trying to eliminate "Time" by connecting the inner square vertices with chords in the squaring method of the taxicab geometry in order to get the conventional Pi of 3.14, which is the ratio of the distance only.  By doing so, then he his left with only the distance of the circumference without Time.  Space-Time is inseparable, and it is a shame how plane geometry in it's current form conveniently leaves Time out of the mathematical equation.  This is proof that Time is real and is more than a man made concept used solely for the purpose of measurement.

Gravock
« Last Edit: May 23, 2014, 11:09:04 AM by gravityblock »

Offline gravityblock

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #127 on: May 23, 2014, 09:00:16 AM »
Zzzzzzzz.

It appears from my last post that you have some waking up to do.  You need to get true to yourself.

Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #128 on: May 23, 2014, 09:52:02 AM »
@ All,

I do not agree with the calculations and the values used by TK.  Now, pay close attention.  Pi = 4 is the ratio between the Distance + Time of the circumference and the diameter.  However, Pi = 3.14 is the ratio between only the distance of the circumference and the diameter.  Below is the mathematical proof and it is based on Frank Znidarsic's quantum transitional speed of 1.0939 MHz meters or 1,094,000 m/s.  We'll use the values in which TK has provided.  Then we'll reconcile the differences between his values and the values in which I accept in a later post, assuming of course he concedes from his current positon.

According to TK's values, the diameter of the orbit is about 299.2 million km. Traversing this distance at the tangential velocity of 29814 m/sec will therefore take about 10035553 seconds. Four times that is 40,142,212 seconds... but a year is only 31,558,118 seconds.  Curiously.... 10035553 x  3.1416 = about 31,527,693 seconds.... nearly exactly the number of seconds in a sidereal year.

4 * 10035553 seconds = 40,142,212 seconds, and 3.1416 * 10035553 seconds = 31,527,693 seconds

40,142,212 seconds / 31,527,693 seconds = 1.27200906 or 4 / 3.14 = 1.27...
4 - 3.14 = 0.86
1.27200906 * 0.86 = 1.093927791, which is equal to the quantum transitional speed of 1.094 MHz meters or 1,094,000 m/s.  The quantum transitional speed is directly tied to the Planck's constant, the fine structure constant, the speed of light, the speed of sound in the nuclear structure of the atom, etc.

The taxicab geometry is showing the distance + the Time of the circumference is 4 times longer than the distance + the Time of the diameter.  MarkE is trying to eliminate "Time" by connecting the inner square vertices with chords in the squaring method of the taxicab geometry in order to get the conventional Pi of 3.14, which is the ratio of the distance only.  By doing so, then he his left with only the distance of the circumference without Time.  Space-Time is inseparable, and it is a shame how plane geometry in it's current form conveniently leaves Time out of the mathematical equation.  This is proof that Time is real and is more than a man made concept used solely for the purpose of measurement.

Gravock

Wheeler clearly pointed out that matter and space continually interact. Quoting Wheeler: "Space acts on matter, telling it how to move. In turn, matter reacts back on space, telling it how to curve."

Pi = 4 for the ratio between the Distance + the Time of the circumference and the diameter, clearly reflects Wheeler's quote on how matter and space continually interact.

Gravock

Offline MarkE

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #129 on: May 23, 2014, 10:55:44 AM »
@ All,

I do not agree with the calculations and the values used by TK.  Now, pay close attention.  Pi = 4 is the ratio between the Distance + Time of the circumference and the diameter. ...

Gravock
LOL.  Other than the established crackpot Miles Mathis there are few who would continue to fight your many times lost battle with reality.

Offline gravityblock

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #130 on: May 23, 2014, 11:04:11 AM »
Please note, the 1.094 in my previous calculation has no units and is a dimensionless number since it is based on a ratio.  The dimensionless number of 1.094 is also based on a ratio between the speed of light in a vacuum and the speed of sound in the nuclear structure of the atom. Velocity may be expressed in units of megahertz-meters. This dimensional frequency expresses a relationship between the size and frequency of the transitional quantum state. Expressing velocity in units of megahertz-meters is useful in describing the transitional state of non-centric systems.  So, in essence, TK has no legitimate argument with the dimensionless number of 1.094 being used as 1.094 MHz meters or 1,094,000 m/s.

The megahertz-meter relationship describes the process of quantum transition. The quantum transition involves a strong interaction involving all of the natural forces. Strong interactions require strong mediating forces. The strength of the electrical force, the nuclear force, and the gravitational force converge at a displacement equal to n times the classical radius of the electron 2rp.

Gravock

Offline gravityblock

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #131 on: May 23, 2014, 11:13:03 AM »
LOL.  Other than the established crackpot Miles Mathis there are few who would continue to fight your many times lost battle with reality.

Please provide a scientific rebuttal instead of asserting your opinion.

Gravock

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #132 on: May 23, 2014, 11:27:48 AM »
Quote
4 * 10035553 seconds = 40,142,212 seconds, and 3.1416 * 10035553 seconds = 31,527,693 seconds

40,142,212 seconds / 31,527,693 seconds = 1.27200906 or 4 / 3.14 = 1.27...
DIMENSIONLESS, since you are taking the ratio of two quantities of SECONDS.
Quote
4 - 3.14 = 0.86
1.27200906 * 0.86 = 1.093927791,
Two more DIMENSIONLESS numbers, the ratio and the product of DIMENSIONLESS numbers, not to mention the FALSE PRECISION and the nonsensical subtraction of two ratios.
Quote
which is equal to the quantum transitional speed of 1.094 MHz meters or 1,094,000 m/s. 
Where did these "meters per second" units come from? A DIMENSIONLESS number is NOT EQUAL to a velocity or a "MegaHertzMeters" made-up quantity.
YOU FAIL at this step because your UNITS do not compute properly.  "SIX" does not equal "Half a dozen EGGS".  Is six o'clock equal to a six-pack of cola? That is what you are claiming here. DIMENSIONS, aka UNITS, matter and must work out algebraically just as the numbers themselves must. YOU FAIL in this.
Quote
The quantum transitional speed is directly tied to the Planck's constant, the fine structure constant, the speed of light, the speed of sound in the nuclear structure of the atom, etc.

I can make up all kinds of numbers too. If the UNITS do not work out, as they do not work out in your pretend calculation above .... they are wrong.

You are playing some pretty silly games with numbers there.

Offline gravityblock

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #133 on: May 23, 2014, 11:31:17 AM »
DIMENSIONLESS, since you are taking the ratio of two quantities of SECONDS. Two more DIMENSIONLESS numbers, the ratio and the product of DIMENSIONLESS numbers, not to mention the FALSE PRECISION and the nonsensical subtraction of two ratios.Where did these "meters per second" units come from? A DIMENSIONLESS number is NOT EQUAL to a velocity or a "MegaHertzMeters" made-up quantity.
YOU FAIL at this step because your UNITS do not compute properly.  "SIX" does not equal "Half a dozen EGGS".  Is six o'clock equal to a six-pack of cola? That is what you are claiming here. DIMENSIONS, aka UNITS, matter and must work out algebraically just as the numbers themselves must. YOU FAIL in this.
I can make up all kinds of numbers too. If the UNITS do not work out, as they do not work out in your pretend calculation above .... they are wrong.

You are playing some pretty silly games with numbers there.

Please read my previous post.  I already addressed your dimensionless argument prior to you posting, along with the megahertz meter relationship.

Gravock

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The Holographic Universe and Pi = 4 in Kinematics!
« Reply #134 on: May 23, 2014, 11:35:40 AM »
Please read my previous post.  I already addressed your dimensionless crap prior to you posting this.

Gravock
Dimensionless crap? The DIMENSIONLESS NUMBERS came from your post, didn't they?

Do you now dispute the FACT that units, aka dimensions, MUST work out properly in any calculation? Let's see you give some support for THAT.


Now please show your COMPLETE calculations, as I have done, that also show the units/dimensions working out properly.

But of course  you cannot.