@all

I would like to post this here for @lasersaber or others to consider.

When you have arrived at a base circuit such as those shown by @LS, you may be asking, "OK, what's next?, How can I bring this to the next level?".

May I propose that a good next step would be to try and integrate the TOP diagram below as is or with any variations while in keeping with the spirit of the diagram in order to now work with damped pulse waves instead of the undamped method presently used.

I am putting this here because although the TOP is a simple concept, it requires some pretty skilled EE savvy to keep it going with certain peripheral components that will need to be added around the transistor/mosfet to keep it from burning up. Since the @LaserSaber circuit is working in small voltages and micro amps, the burning up problem should not be that much of a concern but the overall payback using damped wave may prove to be the OU method required.

WHY?

Consider that L1 is being used simply as a source of high inductance where the coil will "charge and discharge" into L2 like a sling shot when the transistor produces a short. L1 also becomes the source of added ambiant coil and core re-bias so ether (aether) has a way of entering the system at a point other then the L2 main working transformer primary and its output secondary L3.

This method is very potent. I have had some bad shocks while working with this and it is easy to underestimate the level of output available. My EE acumen is too limited to push this forward myself as I was doing this at low frequency with relays or reeds.

I am convinced that if some top qualified guys (more qualified them me - that's for sure) put their efforts into integrating such an old damped wave concept into existing more linear systems or loop systems (like @LS or JuleThief devices) using simple pri/sec transformers or toroids, by using the L1 in tandem, we will start to see some great results.

All the best.

wattsup

 Here is the tesla ozone joule ringer v2 hybrid proposal, based on wattsup ideas.
Will try and add the tesla ozone part on the ringer v2 version later today, since i have that already setup in front of me for tests.

peace love light
 

@Skywatcher123

Nice work. I think you will need to reverse the + and - of the battery on both of your diagrams. Also always indicate that the first coil on the battery negative side needs to be of high inductance so there is no guessing. High inductance is what? It will depend on the coils you are driving at L2/L3 and the cap and the working frequency. I would say L1 = L2 + L3 working inductances times 2 or 3. L1 does what? Well if thin wire it becomes a negative resistor that gets shorted to the B+, on open it discharges creating a 2nd pulse, plus the L1 inductance will help recharge the discharge cap much faster and higher. Just keep your hands away when it runs. Always turn it off before doing any mods to the setup especially if you are trying new frequencies.

The L1 secondary you drew in is OK as long as the higher inductance coil, be it the pri or the sec needs to be L1, so with the sec you can feed some step-down juice to drive the gate and a pulse circuit. So on your drawings the L1 should always be the longer
coil. The other will just be an L1 secondary.

wattsup

PS: Sorry for off topic.

I got mpsa18's today; they look almost the same as the NTE47's ... but the NTE47 is slightly lower frequency (slightly higher resistance?)  ... slightly being maybe 10% but that's only a guess...

my 1000uF caps were only 5.6V *no wonder it popped at 16V* 
... probably pretty leaky at 9V too

*looks forward to TK's loopstick JT*

http://www.mouser.com/Search/ProductDetail.aspx?R=MPSA18RLRMGvirtualkey58410000virtualkey863-MPSA18RLRMG

RLRMG?
the pdf says -D on title; but inside are no suffix letters....

No doubt the NTE part is quite a bit more expensive !

My MPSA18s appear to be manufactured by Fairchild, and the MPSA18 data sheet I have is from Motorola. Heh....

I've learned over the years that transistor substitution is only rarely critical. Match material, polarity, max voltages/currents and power dissipation first, then Hfe/gain/speed, etc.

I've also found, down in this range, that the BC337-25 is almost like the MPSA18 and in some circuits may be superior.

(Thanks to DarkAlchemist)

well 99 cents with instant gratification (can go down to store); vs 40 cents in low quantities ... and 2000 for $120 (6 cents)
and radio shack carries nte parts...


I think I broke a mpsa18; I have it now at 1us pulses... but are negative emitter  driven.... it generates more light at the cost of a lot more amps... and now when I back up to the simple circuit it's doing the same thing... can get down to 10mA but that's pretty high... at one point I shorted a diode to ground... think maybe it's a common collector oscillator now

But meanwhile the Loopstick meets LS Looper video demo is done. The change in brightness in the LEDs doesn't show up so well on the video but I hope you can at least tell a bit of what's going on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqBK00tuI8Y

@TinselKoala:

Very interesting, may be the 20 turns (one end free) act as an antenna and you are tuning to the 60Hz of the 110 V mains or some radio station or cell phone tower near your lab?

May be you can check with your scope whether your loop stick circuit is doing the "ringing bursts" which I show here http://www.overunity.com/14591/lasersaber-strikes-again-a-joule-thief-king/msg405416/#msg405416 or here http://www.overunity.com/14591/lasersaber-strikes-again-a-joule-thief-king/msg403109/#msg403109 (this is the characteristic ringing of LaserSaber's circuit).

To get a very low power demand one needs these "ringing bursts" instead of the "normal Joule Thief type oscillation" (measured over collector/emitter of the transistor).

If one uses the MPSA18 almost any coil will cause oscillation, but only with a very "special coil" (high inductance, 2:1 ratio) one gets these "ringing bursts".

These ringing bursts can be produced with any transistor and almost any coil if one uses a circuit published by Vortex1 here http://www.overunity.com/14591/lasersaber-strikes-again-a-joule-thief-king/msg403216/#msg403216 . But the power draw is at least ten times higher than with LaserSabers circuit (and the MPSA18).

A far as I have come:

- use a MPSA18
- then try to get a coil similar to LaserSaber's pot core coil (I think it needs high inductance and a 2:1 ratio)

If you can confirm the "ringing bursts" in your loop stick circuit, you have successfully replaced LaserSaber's coil with your own. And your circuit works with a very low supply Voltage as well (which is nice). Low Voltage (below 1.5 Volt) and low current (less than 1 µA on average) is a neat trick if the LEDs are at least glowing nicely. A magnet shaker would be a good enough power source (one shake and go for several minutes).

Unfortunatelly some chores are keeping me from experimenting at least for an other week.

Greetings, Conrad

What you are calling "ringing bursts" are simply the response of a fairly high-Q tank circuit to a stimulating pulse that is happening at a much lower frequency than the resonant frequency of the tank.

It actually represents an energy loss, I think. The whole of the energy represented by the square-topped part of the pulse just before the ringing, is dissipated in the resistance of the tank components and radiated as RF at the ringing frequency, during each nice exponential decay of the pulse.

Do you have a phototransistor or CdS photoresistor? It would be interesting to use such a device to monitor the light pulses from the LED and compare them to the ringing burst trace to see when the light is actually on during the waveform.

I've got a lot of similar example waveforms but here is the easiest one to look at that I could find. The Arduino inductance meter puts an unknown inductance into a tank circuit with a good quality known capacitor, and "strikes" the tank with a single sharp pulse and then observes the ringdown, determining the frequency. Since the capacitance is known, the inductance may be calculated from the ringing frequency.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx3B89379eQ

Also, I see that your schematic says "2V-20V". There is a hundred times more energy in a cap charged to 20 volts than the same cap charged to 2 volts.... no wonder small caps give long runtimes, if you are allowed to charge to "high voltages" like 20 volts!

I think these are the ringiog bursts he actually means... http://youtu.be/8mJX5qW4ghk?t=2m25s
I have not seen this behavior in any configuration; I only get a continous pulsing...
(conrad)'s don't look anything like this ...

Oh, sure, I see what you mean. Those are much more like the pulse trains from one of the Akula circuits.

Yes, my Loopstick device does things like that too, depending on the voltage and the setting of the ferrite into the loopstick. It does even weirder things too. I have never charged it to over 3 volts though.

I'll make a short video showing scopetraces later on this evening. It has at least two modes of oscillation. One where it makes "burst packets" like shown in the video, except within the bursts there is a high-frequency nearly pure sinusoid waveform. The other is a train or "segmented train" of ringdown waveforms similar to conrad's above.