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Solid States Devices => solid state devices => Topic started by: boggen on April 28, 2014, 04:16:36 AM

Title: various issues that has me concerned...
Post by: boggen on April 28, 2014, 04:16:36 AM
hey, first time poster here :)  my background is more towards fluid dynamics, or rather, pond filteration, how water/air moves in pipes and within ponds and through filters.   with basic home wiring, and shed wiring, farm boy, little of this and that to get things done / tinkerer,

my primary want is a linear generator / free piston, generator / engine take your pick in how ya call it.  for a tractor engine. BUT there are certain things that need learn.  and part of that is better handle on D/C and A/C currents and magentizm.    to state it not happy with current engines / generators out there on the market and/or in development that i have found.  some is it is in overall fabrication, other is simply not taking advantage of this or that... to simply not meeting my own requirements.

googling, always tended up to bring up overunity website of folks various threads/posts... so here i am. *gulps*

=======================
some things that have caught my eye.....

Title: Re: various issues that has me concerned...
Post by: boggen on April 28, 2014, 04:25:26 AM
multi coils wound through each other or around a toriod or like.....

i have been known to be a garbage diver. to grab something that would work just right here or there.... other words been there done that...

some issues i have seen is resounce issues with switches, mofets, frequency's, etc... and coils liking a few set specific range for each coil.... and i gotta wonder about the "fabrication" or rather the winding of the coils is coming up, and being a major issue for some folks in simply how they wind the coils.

""see attachment"" winding a coil.png

through all the scavanaging, bending, cleaning, rewinding of wire to coils. is the wire actually being destroyed to point that it is creating extra "BEMF" back electric magnetic field.   and trying to overcome the wiggles on the inside diameter of wire and deforming of the wire. is were trying to find a very specific small range of frequencies and pulses, coming from for some folks?  vs possibly having a wider range were one could narrow a coil down to find a sweet spot per say?

Title: Re: various issues that has me concerned...
Post by: boggen on April 28, 2014, 04:29:45 AM
pertaining to my last post. and pulling wire off the spoil of wire bought from manufacture. and keeping the turns in it. and turning the wire on to a toroid or other coil.  the above would be consider the "first steps".   just turning the wire to.... would cause the wire to be "loose" around the torid or other coil.  the next steps would be to...

un wind, the end  of wire so you have some lead wire to work with, for connection purpose. and then start physically tightening the wire and building up your coil that you wanted to create.

is there a simple machine? or part that could be made and attached to a motor,  to allow the initial first steps to happen easier?
Title: Re: various issues that has me concerned...
Post by: boggen on April 28, 2014, 05:06:18 AM
its been way to many years since highschool science class...

trying to comprehend saturation point, resistance, pulsations, frequency, voltage, amps, watts, eddy currents...  other words trying to break away from the general 2D diagrams and charts that are shown vs actual 3D helix curve that might be better shown.

during the creation of the physical wire say copper wire. "magnet wire" as folks might call it.   as the wire as it reaches the given temperature, and is stirred and mixed for correct qualities and properties.  and before the wire is cooled down to its final shape and hardens.  is there electricity ran through the wire, AND is there a coil or i should say a set of coils the wire that is being created ran through.  to help align the individual atoms/ crystals, etc.. that make up the physical copper wire. so the magnetic domains,  the spinning direction of electrons around atoms, etc... better positioned into a known better profile. that will lower overall electrical resistance of the wire. and for a better "wave form" of magnetic flux. around the wire?

what i am more getting at... is possibly having a better "toriod wire or coil wire" were say the "inside bend radius of a wire" (reffering to previous posts} have a "larger magnetic flux" vs the outside bend radius of the wire.  by simply  running the wire before it cools / hardens. through 2 magnets. one above and one below the wire.  to align the magnetic domains / spin direction of electrons around atoms etc... vs running the wire through coils...

the above falls back into how "permanent magnets" are made. but further more the fabrication and refining process of the wire itself... 

while yes a nice even perfect shape circle or square shape or other shape is always strive for, but manufacturing of wire does leave tiny dents, holes, etc.. within the wire.  and these defects in the wire do raise issues with electrical resistance, and magnetic flux of a wire.  but is there a smaller issue that really can not be seen / measured easily... via applying electricity / magnetic field to the wire?

==========================
is round wire really all that great? in shaping the magnetic flux, as it turns and bends and twists through the various materials both through wire, cores, etc.... we only have control of the electricity DC or AC, and pulsation of it....

EDIT: attached picture
Title: Re: various issues that has me concerned...
Post by: boggen on April 28, 2014, 07:50:02 AM
elimination of back emf, obtaining better control over magnetic flux of each wire?

see 1st attached picture
grears messhing right hand rule of electric magnetic direction.png

hexagon pattern hmmsss....

the 6 points of hexagon. every other point would be counter click wise (say south pole),  the others would be "clock wise" (say north pole) but what about the center wire of the hexagon?

see 2nd attached picture...
hexagon wrapping of wire into coils what is the middle wire.png

if red = counter clock wise rotation (postive leads of wire to postive of power source, and neg to neg) copper wire
if green = clock wise rotation (postive lead to neg of power source, and neg lead to pos of power source) copper wire
then centeral blue would it be better to be more of a magnetic propertiey wire. that could handle multi pole better? other words a higher saturation rate of magnetic flux than copper?  does not need to be actual permenant magnet style of wire. but higher staturation maybe or permeabilty?   

other words instead of relying on electric doing the work. there is more of a conversion from  electric to magnetic.   

done lost thread, but "using a single wire as a neutral, common, ground wire.   someone noted in that thread. of using a the wire as a long "transformer" like wire. were secondary coils were on each end of the wire.   one took electric in changed it into magnetic flux to feed through wire, and at the other end another coil returned magnetic flux back into electric, to operate a light or drill.  or other electrical device.  ((something about 220 or 230 V in a single wire and you could touch wire and not be shocked))

Title: Re: various issues that has me concerned...
Post by: boggen on April 28, 2014, 09:24:58 AM
how should a coil be wound and for what purpose?  all in the niddy gritty details of fabrication.... or is it?

H (last diagram) 2 wires per layer, and 2 layers for a total of 4 wires / 4 coils. 
with ends....
A1, A2.... B1, B2.... C1, C2... D1, D2....  how would you connect them?

are you looking for....
magnetic flux to electricity?
electricity to magnetic flux?
higher concentration of flux in the center of the coil/s? if nothing was going through center of the coil it would be air...
higher concentration of flux on the outside diameter of the coil/s?  say coil/s were being inserted into a pipe. vs being coiled around a pipe.
looking to saturate what ever is going through the center of the coil? and go past saturation point? or just up to saturation point of the material with least amount of electricity?
are you going for amplification or multiplication?  of either electricity (volts, amps, or watts)
are you looking to cancel out magnetic flux all together. or perhaps within a certain plain of X,Y,Z plain? 
are you trying to even out a specific frequency and adjust phases to better synchronization of multiple phases?

==================
i have cut off blades, saws, drills, sanding, washing, polishing, electrolysis, painting, layering. injection molding, melting, solidifying, off gassing.... etc... of physical material...
BUT my tools for molding and shaping and fabrication magnetic flux.....
are shape of wires, and materials the wires are made out of...
amps/watts/volts (pick 2 of them)...
any sort of pulsation / wave form  of A/C or D/C power
timing of the electricity.
permanent magnets.
Title: Re: various issues that has me concerned...
Post by: boggen on April 28, 2014, 10:17:03 AM
REFERRING BACK TO FIRST POST...
how is wire actually made?  honestly how is it made? 
Title: Re: various issues that has me concerned...
Post by: boggen on April 28, 2014, 11:16:57 AM
i am not a large fan of any sort of "rollers", pulleys, paths that wires may take en order to route the wire were it needs to go. before it finally makes it onto the spool and shipped out to the end customer....

BUT drum rollers can do some things to a wire....

((see attach diagram))

if ya ever messed with clay, or even kneeding bread (flour, eggs, oil, water)  you can take a lump of clay or mixture of dough... and roll it between your hands. to turn it into a rod shape,  the more you roll it pending on amount of pressure used with your hands, can remove any surface folds that still might be seen from the oringal clump you started out with. to simply squeezing everything down to a longer piece of rod...

drum rollers, can be a perfect cylinder (same diameter on each side) or "cone shaped" one side smaller than the other.  to "not aligned" perfect level in all 3 axis from the previous or next drum.  along with tension that is on the drum rollers.  the wire itself can be twisted and rolled across multi drums. it may start on the left side, but by the time it gets through say a dozen drums. it may have rolled itself all the way to the right side of the right drum.   and in this making sure the enter circumference of a round wire is pulled apart length wise at the same time rolled / squished to fill in any voids / cracks or like that might form.

=========================

other things... is the wire ran through a vacuum chamber? is the wire placed through a "pressure chamber" think ran through the air tank on your air compressor in the garage.  is the air inside the pressure chamber some other gas than what you are breathing right now?  to prevent any sort of re-action that may not be wanted,  and wire needs to stay in a non oxygen atmosphere till an insulated or dip or some sort extra processes is/are done.

are you wanting the wire ran through drum rollers, inside a very high pressurized container so as to compress and condense the wire from a softer form to a harder stiffer wire?

Title: Re: various issues that has me concerned...
Post by: boggen on April 28, 2014, 01:37:08 PM
getting back on track

pancake coils....

hhmmsss.....

google tesla pancake coil or biflar coil (hope i got spelling righ biflor or biflar??)

((see the three attach diagrams))

what happens when you line up a few hundered pancake coils in a pipe formation?

what happens if you shape the pipe into a toriod shape?  were the pancake coils are at X degrees aligned with the central axis?
Title: Re: various issues that has me concerned...
Post by: boggen on April 29, 2014, 05:02:21 AM
single generic bar magnet, and 1 or 2 wires.

i never noted if the wire was "insulated" or if the wire was "bare copper" no cover around it.

other words go through it once with bare copper wire, 
then go through it all again with insulated wire.

would creating each setup on a flat surface like a table.  and then place a sheet of paper over the top. and then adding some iron filings work???

then for a "prob" / tester.... connect a iron piece of metal to a magnetic North pole.  to better prob around things?  perhaps another prob but iron bar that is small in diameter connect to a south pole?

would using different chunks of iron of different weights. be used to measure magnetic force of lifting or pulling or repelling forces?

would it be necessary to place things on "strings" so as to allow things to have a tad bit more freedom in testing of magnetic forces?

if you attached a spring to end of say South pole of a magnet.  while you held end of other spring in your fingers. give an idea of how much force was being applied by how much the spring either squished together or elongated (stretched out)?

EDIT broke up oringal image into multi images
Title: Re: various issues that has me concerned...
Post by: TinselKoala on April 29, 2014, 06:07:07 AM
Argh is right. Your image exceeds reasonable size guidelines, being over four thousand pixels high.

If you break up the big image into individual pictures that are 900 pixels wide and 600 pixels tall, they will display inline in a size that is easy to see.
Title: Re: various issues that has me concerned...
Post by: boggen on April 29, 2014, 09:30:10 AM
Argh is right. Your image exceeds reasonable size guidelines, being over four thousand pixels high.

If you break up the big image into individual pictures that are 900 pixels wide and 600 pixels tall, they will display inline in a size that is easy to see.

thx for the 900x600 info will plug that into microsoft paint. dimensions and hold to those dimensions or smaller :)

======================
for others.... that might have hard time reading / seeing previous pictures.... ((i am not able to edit older posts))

simply left clicking on given image to show a larger version that should be view able if not...

bottom right hand corner there will be a +  (plus sign) click on that to see original size.
(( i had to scroll down and to the right some before i finally noticed the + sign to show original image from within the popup window))
========================
those with javascript turned off....

right click on below image,
left click "open image in new window"
or
right click on below image,
left click "view image"

once image is shown, "left click image" to cause image to magnify to 100%
left click image again to cause image to shrink back
left click image again to magnify image back to 100%
Title: Re: various issues that has me concerned...
Post by: boggen on April 29, 2014, 12:30:06 PM
iron chunks and when does the wire begin reading south if at all?

how do you probe for south? using another magnet?  another magnet with a wire?  a compass?  piece of paper covering everything and some iron fillings?
Title: Re: various issues that has me concerned...
Post by: boggen on April 30, 2014, 01:36:15 AM
moving up too 2 or more magnets, and trying to find "multi pole" setups in copper wires and iron rods

questions...
how do you even test for a "8 multi pole" copper wire or iron rod?

---compass?
---using another magnet with another copper wire attached to it to use wire as a probe? 
---using another magnet with a small diameter iron rod attach to the magnet to act as a probe?
---iron fillings / shavings, that are sprinkled around the wire? and use of above probes?
---create some elabrate disc setup that is 8 pieces of a pizza in shape.  to maybe allow for better or i should bigger area to probe?
---larger diameter solid copper wire used in the main center of the magnets?

Title: Re: various issues that has me concerned...
Post by: boggen on May 01, 2014, 04:20:00 AM
i am not sure what happen, but all my images today are showing up as "full size images" within this thread. without having to click anything to view them.

A big Thanks to who ever adjusted the settings of the forum :)

Title: Re: various issues that has me concerned...
Post by: boggen on May 01, 2014, 04:25:54 AM
one last addition before changing things over in magnets and there shapes....
Title: Re: various issues that has me concerned...
Post by: boggen on May 01, 2014, 06:57:34 PM
*arghs* i had some other video links and some other links and now can't find them... and result of trying to search has lead to some extra misc stuff. *shrugs*

how are permenat magnets made?  how do we get North and South poles. and at what angle  are you wanting the poles to be? 
some youtube videos....

goes along more of the entire process of raw materials to creating the final product.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=noGGcyPHtdI

bunch of videos dealing with magnets, from bar, to cylinder, to washers / rings, to balls. 
https://www.youtube.com/user/SuperMagnetMan

more of cnc / lathe / cutting process of magnets.
Jobmaster Magnets Canada Manufacturing & Assembly Facility
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lhfv_FYEffM

how super magnets are made by supermagnetman maybe of intrest in proccess of raw material to final product.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BHuWloNGo6c

do a search for ""powder metallurgy process animation"" without quotes on youtube
seems like a full walk through of raw material to final product.  only missing a couple steps of magnetizing a permanent magnet a couple times... (not counting permanent magnet conditioning for heat / pressure / magnet flux strength)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIcPC73_H14

worlds strongest magnet.  sheets of metal vs wires to form coils. holes in the sheets i am going to guess to allow for "coolant" to run through.    magnets, coils magnets, coils repeating one side the other to amplify the flux density inside the very center core of the unit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGytW_C6hR8

in below the notation of just some kids stating angle of magnets on the edges being just at the right angle and position for things to work....
Magnetic Rail Gun Science Project
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vo2-Qb3fUYs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VeXrFfw4RSU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTbFfEEE_qU

multi pole layered onto a regular magnet to make a stronger repulsion or attraction.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4m81JjZCJo

magnet in a copper pipe
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E97CYWlALEs

eddie currents = magnets and copper = heat!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fDprCBQiVeA
search for "magnet copper"  or "magnet copper pipe"  or "magnet copper water" on youtube for other videos

copper wheel (whole saw bit for a drill turned into copper) + neo magnets = eddie currents, though notation of magnets wanting to fly across room. hhmmss....
http://www.resonantfractals.org/Magnetism/SpinningCylinder.htm

Title: Re: various issues that has me concerned...
Post by: boggen on May 03, 2014, 03:34:57 PM
pulses within a wire