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Author Topic: Lorentz-less Selfrunner, extremly simple.  (Read 5161 times)

Offline dieter

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Offline NTesla

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Re: Lorentz-less Selfrunner, extremly simple.
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2014, 08:26:50 AM »
So why no pictures of a proof-of-concept working model? If it is just a theory, using the term "selfrunner" is erroneous.

Offline ACG

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Re: Lorentz-less Selfrunner, extremly simple.
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2014, 08:51:58 AM »
Looks like QEG is contagious.

I have no doubt that in Stage 1 L2 would attract the iron mass FE1.  But what is the torque of that attraction?  Simply having attraction only does not suffice for a claim of overcoming Lorentz force.  Mspaint has no bounds.

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Re: Lorentz-less Selfrunner, extremly simple.
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2014, 08:51:58 AM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Lorentz-less Selfrunner, extremly simple.
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2014, 01:49:42 PM »
Looks like QEG is contagious.

I have no doubt that in Stage 1 L2 would attract the iron mass FE1.  But what is the torque of that attraction?  Simply having attraction only does not suffice for a claim of overcoming Lorentz force.  Mspaint has no bounds.
Quote:Simply having attraction only does not suffice for a claim of overcoming Lorentz force.

I disagree. I built a similar setup,and here are the result's.there is indeed a way to totally reverse the mechanical/magnetic Lorentz force.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x6xRcSkPYn4

Offline Paul-R

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Re: Lorentz-less Selfrunner, extremly simple.
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2014, 02:06:11 PM »
Are we talking Lorenz or Lenz ?

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Re: Lorentz-less Selfrunner, extremly simple.
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2014, 02:06:11 PM »
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Offline mscoffman

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Re: Lorentz-less Selfrunner, extremly simple.
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2014, 04:14:54 PM »
It doesn't seem that Dieters method would completely negate back force torques. Due to the
resistance of the coils and the inevitable voltage step of the diode. But check out overunity7's. The
ferrite coil core can do a couple things to get additional energies and could include a phase time
delay. Don't forget Storen graph that shows extra energy depending on how magnets move
away from one another. I like overunity7's because if forces the issue that ferrite material
characteristic makeup consideration probably plays a role - if the thing is to work.

http://www.overunity.com/14550/new-v-gate-double-coil-system-dcs/msg400209/#new

:S:MarkSCoffman

Offline tinman

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Re: Lorentz-less Selfrunner, extremly simple.
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2014, 02:02:40 PM »
Are we talking Lorenz or Lenz ?
In physics, particularly electromagnetism, the Lorentz force is the combination of electric and magnetic force on a point charge due to electromagnetic fields. If a particle of charge q moves with velocity v in the presence of an electric field E and a magnetic field B, then it will experience a force.** For any produced force there will be an opposite reactive force**

Lenz law-**An induced electromotive force (emf) always gives rise to a current whose magnetic field opposes the original change in magnetic flux.**

Same thing in regards to the setup being looked at in this thread.



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Re: Lorentz-less Selfrunner, extremly simple.
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2014, 02:02:40 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Lorentz-less Selfrunner, extremly simple.
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2014, 06:40:43 PM »
Hi Dieter,

I hope you have done some test on your setup because unfortunately the attraction force received from L2 in Stage 1 can only be a little bit less than the counter to motion force (Lenz) between the rotor magnet and coil L1. You may say that the induced current still does useful work in the load but just this is the borderline where experimentation and optimization should be done: the odds are that you are just still under 100% or just COP<1 because
1) your Prime Mover (that rotates the rotor) also has an efficiency less than 100%
2) you use half wave only from the induced waveform

You may also say that you just solved the latter two problems by the setup shown in your PDF file (last Figure at the bottom in Page 3) by using several electromagnet coils to get several attract forces from the same induced current  but again this is where practical tests should be done to show that those coils working together are able to defeat the teachings of conventional science.

Consider that the load should have a low resistance (like the coils should have a low DC resistance as you correctly  noticed) because the higher the load (in value) is,  the smaller the induced current can be, hence the attraction force for the electromagnets can only be less and less as the ohmic value of the load increases (this means for instance that an incandescent bulb is a wrong choice even for tinkering because as it would start to light up, its hot resistance goes up UNLESS the setup has an inherent capability to produce so much extra power as to defeat the bulb's increasing resistance and to maintain rotation in spite of the decreasing attract forces).

One more thing to consider: as any iron mass is attracted by an electromagnet coil, the iron gradually increases the the self inductance of that coil as it gets closer and closer to it and considering this dynamically during rotation,  the coil's AC impedance just increases as the induced voltage which feeds the electromagnet coil also increases.
Again, this 'problem' may NOT be a problem if the setup is able to produce more 'juice' than what is inherently dissippated by the internal losses.

I hope you are busy with building and testing this setup, for which I wish you good luck and persistence so that you could sweep away any objection conventional science may pose.

Gyula

Offline dieter

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Re: Lorentz-less Selfrunner, extremly simple.
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2014, 07:49:58 PM »
Thank you all very much for your mild judgement. I agree with pretty much everything that was said. Some considerations:


The design requires a certain size to overcome the diode(s) losses. Also, first tests have shown that, even although a diode is in place (last drawing, supposed selfrunner), both, negative and positive current was measured, so this is an interesting aspect of the coils, as they act in a state of elasticity, obviously. A diode after every coil may help, but has a cost in voltage drop and dissipation.


It certainly isn't as easy as it looks on the drawing. But the interesting question seems to be:


If the induction causes an e-magnet that unfortunately opposes our goals, it does however cause that e-magnet at all, and why in the world should it be impossible to do the same thing a further time, but with reversed polarity, or in this case a little further away with a piece of iron, that doesn't care about the polarity?


Is an electro magnet dissipating energy by attracting iron? No, it dissipates energy when the current reaches the other pole of the supply (ignoring copper losses for now).


Care must be taken, not to inductively couple with the iron, which could happen when it contains a hole and becomes a one turn coil.


It is however an interesting concept to study coils in interaction with diodes.


Regards


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Lorentz-less Selfrunner, extremly simple.
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2014, 07:49:58 PM »
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