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Author Topic: Reliable and Flexible Switching System  (Read 41191 times)

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Reliable and Flexible Switching System
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2014, 02:51:19 AM »
Fault Handling! Housekeeping! What a concept....

 :'(
 ;D

Nearly there TK!   ;D

You're an Electronics GURU! Feel up to posting a Circuit with Layout?

All the Best

  Chris

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Reliable and Flexible Switching System
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2014, 02:51:19 AM »

Offline MarkE

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Re: Reliable and Flexible Switching System
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2014, 03:15:46 AM »
Nearly there TK!   ;D

You're an Electronics GURU! Feel up to posting a Circuit with Layout?

All the Best

  Chris
The application of the circuit really needs to have parameters placed around it.  One size fits all does not work well in power electronics.

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Reliable and Flexible Switching System
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2014, 03:39:03 AM »
The application of the circuit really needs to have parameters placed around it.  One size fits all does not work well in power electronics.

Hi MarkE,

Yes, I hear you and agree it will not be an easy task to achieve a "One size fits all"!

But we can get close!

The Circuit I Posted, from Selfonlypath, is that! Very Close!

All the Best

  Chris

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Reliable and Flexible Switching System
« Reply #17 on: April 28, 2014, 03:39:03 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Reliable and Flexible Switching System
« Reply #18 on: April 28, 2014, 09:59:42 PM »
Hi MarkE,

Yes, I hear you and agree it will not be an easy task to achieve a "One size fits all"!

But we can get close!

The Circuit I Posted, from Selfonlypath, is that! Very Close!

All the Best

  Chris
Chris there are a couple of things that you should look at in your circuit.

1. Critical:  The MOSFET avalanche protection is limited to the snubber network.  With a big inductive load that will either end up dissipating a lot of power or you will blow the MOSFET.  The flyback diode anode should be on the MOSFET drain, and the cathode on +DC where it is decoupled through a long inductance back to the MOSFET source.  The size of the decoupling capacitor depends on how much inductance there is back to the +DC supply.   This is particularly true given that you have a 1 Ohm gate turn-off resistor.

2. Design Improvement:  One section of the MCP1403 should be more than adequate for each MOSFET.  If you are going to drive more than 4.5A of gate current, you will have more issues with layout than driver strength.  The only reason that I would allocate by halves of that driver to one MOSFET would be if that made a big difference in the parasitic inductance in the layout.

3. Design Improvement:  You should place a 200uF capacitor in series with a 0.5 Ohm resistor across C4.  This will keep the filter L1/C4 from resonating uncontrollably when the MOSFETs are driven near 3kHz.

4. Design Improvement:  C5 should have a 47 Ohm or so resistor in series so as to limit the peak current load on the ATMEGA.  Otherwise you can kill the output pin from electromigration.

5. Design Consideration:  Z1 will only be effective if it has a very low inductance between the MOSFET gate and source.  Also, a typical zener will not act quickly enough to protect the MOSFET gate.  A TVS device rated at 16V that will trip by 20V would be a better choice.

5. Documentation Error:  The notes say D2 is for asymmetric gate drive.  It should say D3 and R4.

Offline Dog-One

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Re: Reliable and Flexible Switching System
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2014, 10:35:45 PM »
Found this about a year ago and saved it:
http://www.source-for-innovations.com/pgen.htm

Gunther has put a lot of effort into this design:
http://www.source-for-innovations.com/switch.htm

I have used the circuitry myself and it works quite well.


@MarkE

Jump in here Mark, make improvements and post some EAGLE files we can use to build breakout boards.  As sharp as you are in this area it shouldn't take you more than an hour or two to get us all setup.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Reliable and Flexible Switching System
« Reply #19 on: April 28, 2014, 10:35:45 PM »
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Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Reliable and Flexible Switching System
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2014, 11:00:33 PM »
Chris there are a couple of things that you should look at in your circuit.

1. Critical:  The MOSFET avalanche protection is limited to the snubber network.  With a big inductive load that will either end up dissipating a lot of power or you will blow the MOSFET.  The flyback diode anode should be on the MOSFET drain, and the cathode on +DC where it is decoupled through a long inductance back to the MOSFET source.  The size of the decoupling capacitor depends on how much inductance there is back to the +DC supply.   This is particularly true given that you have a 1 Ohm gate turn-off resistor.

2. Design Improvement:  One section of the MCP1403 should be more than adequate for each MOSFET.  If you are going to drive more than 4.5A of gate current, you will have more issues with layout than driver strength.  The only reason that I would allocate by halves of that driver to one MOSFET would be if that made a big difference in the parasitic inductance in the layout.

3. Design Improvement:  You should place a 200uF capacitor in series with a 0.5 Ohm resistor across C4.  This will keep the filter L1/C4 from resonating uncontrollably when the MOSFETs are driven near 3kHz.

4. Design Improvement:  C5 should have a 47 Ohm or so resistor in series so as to limit the peak current load on the ATMEGA.  Otherwise you can kill the output pin from electromigration.

5. Design Consideration:  Z1 will only be effective if it has a very low inductance between the MOSFET gate and source.  Also, a typical zener will not act quickly enough to protect the MOSFET gate.  A TVS device rated at 16V that will trip by 20V would be a better choice.

5. Documentation Error:  The notes say D2 is for asymmetric gate drive.  It should say D3 and R4.

Hey MarkE,

Excellent! Thank you! We are a step ahead! Anyone an Eagle expert? Anyone like to put these changes MarkE has suggested/proposed into an updated schematic?

Thanks MarkE! Excellent Post!

All the Best

  Chris

Offline MarkE

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Re: Reliable and Flexible Switching System
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2014, 12:01:34 AM »
Hey MarkE,

Excellent! Thank you! We are a step ahead! Anyone an Eagle expert? Anyone like to put these changes MarkE has suggested/proposed into an updated schematic?

Thanks MarkE! Excellent Post!

All the Best

  Chris
Chris, you are welcome.  One thing that may be as important as the design itself is what tools you decide to use to express it in.  The last time I looked you could use Eagle for free if the design is only one page.  You might want to conduct another survey to see what tools people use.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Reliable and Flexible Switching System
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2014, 12:01:34 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Reliable and Flexible Switching System
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2014, 12:03:57 AM »
Gunther has put a lot of effort into this design:
http://www.source-for-innovations.com/switch.htm

I have used the circuitry myself and it works quite well.


@MarkE

Jump in here Mark, make improvements and post some EAGLE files we can use to build breakout boards.  As sharp as you are in this area it shouldn't take you more than an hour or two to get us all setup.
Doug, I use OrCAD.  Is Eagle the choice around here for low cost?

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Reliable and Flexible Switching System
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2014, 12:06:50 AM »
Gunther has put a lot of effort into this design:
http://www.source-for-innovations.com/switch.htm

I have used the circuitry myself and it works quite well.


@MarkE

Jump in here Mark, make improvements and post some EAGLE files we can use to build breakout boards.  As sharp as you are in this area it shouldn't take you more than an hour or two to get us all setup.

Hey Dog-One,

Yes its a very swish unit! Very professional looking! Thanks for posting!

@All

Have seen the FEZ Hydra Board has had a price drop. This board is open source also. See: -->FEZ Hydra - Open Source Board<-- This is a 240Mhz ARM9 Processor (running at 200Mhz). Its .NET Gadgeteer compatible. Its got loads of extra cool features.

It does have only 4 PWM Pins. This can only allow for dual H-Bridge Mode, and single switching mode.

Ideally it would be nice to have a board with all the Microcontroller built in, but it may not be practical and may push the cost up dramatically.

Any thoughts on this?

All the Best

  Chris



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Reliable and Flexible Switching System
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2014, 12:06:50 AM »
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Offline Dog-One

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Re: Reliable and Flexible Switching System
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2014, 12:51:57 AM »
Doug, I use OrCAD.  Is Eagle the choice around here for low cost?

I use DipTrace, but have had to learn EAGLE as it appears to be more compatible in the community.  Concepts are the same and there are a lot of tutorials out there to get up to speed quickly.

Offline Dog-One

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Re: Reliable and Flexible Switching System
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2014, 01:09:26 AM »
Yes its a very swish unit! Very professional looking! Thanks for posting!

Gunther likes the Propeller chip for signal generation, but I prefer the PSoC devices for a few reasons:
1. You can do hardware and software design within a single chip.
2. Cypress supports their products really well and has always offered a hand when I get stuck trying to implement a concept.
3. The Cypress design software might look a little overwhelming, but it's really slick to use and is very mature and reliable.  Oh, did I mention it's free too?

With some of the newer boards like the BeagleBone, the capabilities may go well beyond what is needed.  Having a full-blown PC on a credit card board still blows me away.  How accurately these systems can generate signals though...   Someone else will need to chime in.  I've been a little reluctant to get one to test with as I might dump far too many hours into one instead of focusing on the mission at hand.

Bottom line...  Yes, we should all have something that is easy and inexpensive to build or easy to get from someone else that has made a few of them.  The discrete component signal generators of the Stan Meyer days has long past.  On the other hand, one would be nuts to drop 400 dollars on a BK Precision pulse generator with the type of digital electronics we have these days.  A slick little controller on a board with some separate drive breakout boards is clearly the way to go.  Put everything in a handy little enclosure and we're back to focusing on our forum projects.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Reliable and Flexible Switching System
« Reply #25 on: April 29, 2014, 01:09:26 AM »
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Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Reliable and Flexible Switching System
« Reply #26 on: April 29, 2014, 01:10:23 AM »
Doug, I use OrCAD.  Is Eagle the choice around here for low cost?

Hey Guys,

I agree, Eagle seems to be more 'Industry Standard'. I use different software also and am not confident enough to put Eagle Files out there that may have errors or bad practices that I am not yet aware of.

Eagle is Free also: -->Download Eagle<-- with lots of custom Library's.

Eagle does allow a full, one stop from start to finish solution. It can even get quotes for the manufacture of the completed Gerber Files. I am practising Eagle, learning its techniques so in the future I hope to be able to provide more help in this area.

All the Best

  Chris

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Reliable and Flexible Switching System
« Reply #27 on: April 29, 2014, 01:34:04 AM »
With some of the newer boards like the BeagleBone, the capabilities may go well beyond what is needed.  Having a full-blown PC on a credit card board still blows me away....

Hey Dog-One,

For Sure! BeagleBone... Its awesome!

In saying that I did find the documentation a little confusing when I purchased mine. Its a 200MHz Clock for the PWM's but the embedded CPU is 1GHz on the Black. I was a little disheartened that this wa snot more clearly documented at the time I purchased. All in all, this is the best board I have purchased for overall wide range of features. FEZ Hydra can also run Linux on the Embeded CPU but its CPU Intensive compared to the BeagleBone.

WOW What a price drop! BeagleBone Black - $45.00 Thus far, this is the best option for price for our project!

Imagine VNC to your Home Power Unit to check stats and do maintenance all on a Credit Card Sized Unit! I guess we already see in in the phone technology so its not that hard to imagine...

Lurkers, Join in! we need to get the best from this thread so let us know your thoughts!

All the Best

  Chris


Offline MarkE

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Re: Reliable and Flexible Switching System
« Reply #28 on: April 29, 2014, 01:58:27 AM »
Hey Dog-One,

For Sure! BeagleBone... Its awesome!

In saying that I did find the documentation a little confusing when I purchased mine. Its a 200MHz Clock for the PWM's but the embedded CPU is 1GHz on the Black. I was a little disheartened that this wa snot more clearly documented at the time I purchased. All in all, this is the best board I have purchased for overall wide range of features. FEZ Hydra can also run Linux on the Embeded CPU but its CPU Intensive compared to the BeagleBone.

WOW What a price drop! BeagleBone Black - $45.00 Thus far, this is the best option for price for our project!

Imagine VNC to your Home Power Unit to check stats and do maintenance all on a Credit Card Sized Unit! I guess we already see in in the phone technology so its not that hard to imagine...

Lurkers, Join in! we need to get the best from this thread so let us know your thoughts!

All the Best

  Chris
That does look like a nice kit for $45.

Offline EMJunkie

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Re: Reliable and Flexible Switching System
« Reply #29 on: April 29, 2014, 02:08:18 AM »
@All

This YouTube Video is a GEM! Its very close to what we should be looking at!

URL of what we should be aiming for: -->Dual Motor Controller Cape design for the BeagleBone<-- Instead we need Dual H-Bridge with flexible Frequency and Duty with PLL and other awesome functions! (Most H-Bridge Chips are locked to certain Frequency's or a range and are not quite flexible for our needs) MOST Importantly on top of this, we need to uncouple the channels, E.G: be able to change the Phase between channels on the H-Bridge and make them 0 Degrees to 180 degrees out of phase from each other.

This means we need FETs instead of a dedicated H-Bridge Chip.

This is awesome! An excellent start for something to aim for!

I would really like Paul Tan to join us and advise on his work if he has time!

All the Best

  Chris

P.S: Update on Links: -->Dual Motor Controller MK5 - Cape design for the BeagleBone<-- Also see Paul Tan's Blog: -->Paul Tan's Blog<--

P.P.S: Some more great news: -->Design Files - Paul Tan - GitHub - Dual Motor H-Bridge with dual Quadrature Encoder cape for BeagleBone Black<--

 

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