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Author Topic: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.  (Read 261591 times)

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #75 on: April 26, 2014, 06:17:44 AM »
The z axis is the key!


regards.


ps: I need to fix my broken cylinder head today so I wont be available until im finished with it. anyway keep posting bad or good. doesnt matter to me.

If you indeed have a working Bessler wheel then, why the need to fix your cylinder head?  Just hook the working wheel to your car and go for free.  No cylinder head required.

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #75 on: April 26, 2014, 06:17:44 AM »

Offline gurangax

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #76 on: April 26, 2014, 06:40:59 AM »
If you indeed have a working Bessler wheel then, why the need to fix your cylinder head?  Just hook the working wheel to your car and go for free.  No cylinder head required.

Bill


the wheel doesnt provide for my family. i have more important task for now.


regards

Offline gurangax

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #77 on: April 26, 2014, 06:43:41 AM »

Can you turn the gear box flying in air?   You have to stand or sit firmly inside the car to turn the gear box. Where that force will act? 
 
To perform mechanical work in one direction, you should have equal force in opposite direction which follows directly from Newton's third law.  In a single system, these two forces cancel off and you will not get any useful work.


i will disclose everything but not so soon. i'll let you think about it for awhile, i have provided some vital clues. its so simple! you are simply thinking the same thing all over again you wont see it that way.


regards

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #77 on: April 26, 2014, 06:43:41 AM »
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Offline Pirate88179

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #78 on: April 26, 2014, 06:50:07 AM »

the wheel doesnt provide for my family. i have more important task for now.


regards

Oh, so it does not work then?  Sorry, I must have not understood your earlier posts.  But then why do you say the mystery is solved if it does not work?  Now I am confused.

Bill

Offline gurangax

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #79 on: April 26, 2014, 07:04:26 AM »
Oh, so it does not work then?  Sorry, I must have not understood your earlier posts.  But then why do you say the mystery is solved if it does not work?  Now I am confused.

Bill


Tell me what will I get by giving you the secret, money? I dont think so. I need to work to feed my family. And I dont think the wheel will give me that instantly, you know I need to be really carefull about it so it doesnt fall into the wrong hand.


regards.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #79 on: April 26, 2014, 07:04:26 AM »
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Offline CANGAS

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #80 on: April 26, 2014, 07:32:25 AM »



No it is not a Milkovic device although it is related. Anyway he called it a 2 stage mechanical oscillator which needs to oscillate my 2 stage lever does not need to oscillate it simply gets attracted by gravitic attraction.


When I say  "seen it put together" I was refering to my device. Which I strongly believe matches the Bessler Wheel design criteria.


Regards


NUTZ!! I dont get to ride in somebodys Time Machine! Again! Drat!

So we are back to square one. You have not clairvoyantly seen it put together, but, rather, you have just figured out how, along with 40 million previous Bessler wannabees, the wheel turned.

 Hay, Jack, I have figured out how he turned his wheel too! Me and 40 million others!

I sincerely pray that God miraculously provides any and all providence that you and your family needs quickly! Amen!

The secret to a perpetually energetic wheel would be of such momentous importance to the entire human race that it is highly unlikely it would be placed in the hands of any man who would be willing to sell it for a fraction of its worth. Jesus has very plainly explained to us that "Any of you who will not hate his father or mother or wife or children to follow me cannot inherit my kingdom." Or, something very closely paraphrased to that.

And Jesus demanded of us, "Sell all that you own and give the money to the poor, and then, you may follow me, and inherit the Kingdom Of God".

The secret of a perpetually energetic wheel is the secret that can potentially set humanity free. All of humanity.

I personally do not believe that the secret has been placed in your hands.


CANGAS 27

Offline MarkE

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #81 on: April 26, 2014, 10:51:54 AM »
You are preaching to the converted TK.

It would be irrational to take a position based on belief alone, & I seldom do that - no, I don't have a working Bessler wheel but then I don't claim to.

I am however interested in all plausible ways he might have achieved his wheels public performances & load tests etc - for this I pay particular attention to the written eye witness accounts, the certificates of authenticity, but mostly the treatises of his most vocal critic Christian Wagner, where he & Bessler trade blows - Wagner was a mathematician & very logical thinker - he explained why PMM's were impossible in terms we would completely understand & identify with today - his rebuttals & Bessler's comebacks make the written exchanges interesting reading, if you set aside the escalating emotion at times.

You mention the patrons of the arts accepting most outrageous BS etc etc - I am interested in the subtleties [or not] of human nature & what motivates people at certain times - for that you often have to study the context of the situation - yes, Bessler could have had various different means to animate his wheels at various challenges - that can't be ruled out, but neither has anyone come up with a plausible explanation about how that was done, including the educated critics of the time that examined his wheels closely & conducted many tests - so that argument has validity but so far no substance - show me the sausages :)

Back to the maid - a couple of further observations about her credibility - first the court case was about tax evasion - Bessler free demonstrations were very popular - after a while to limit viewing numbers he charged a small entrance fee - the town council decided that a one-off special tax should be passed to clip the ticket on Bessler's wheel demonstrations - he objected to being singled out & refused to pay, ending up in court.

So the court case was about not paying imposed taxes - yet, the maid is called & testifies that she hand turned the wheel, though how that relates to unpaid taxes I'm not sure - I do know that Bessler's three main adversaries in the gallery were lapping it up - secondly, & I find this most curious, the maid said she was sworn to secrecy by Bessler that she turned his wheels - she said she was made to swear an onerous oath that she would never reveal how the wheels operated - so, imagine this - she testifies against Bessler, after having been fired, breaks her oath & reveals that she turned the wheels .. or .. she testifies against Bessler, after having been fired, doesn't break her oath & tells the inquiry a falsehood, not breaking her sworn oath, but simultaneously damaging Bessler & his reputation - perhaps for her a path of vindication, reward, & lesser consequences in an afterlife ?

Well, as you can see, all speculation, but context does muddy the waters on what appears at face value a cut-and-dried "the maid did it".
That's all great fun, except:
The sausages you ask for are laid before you daily in the form of the known science, tested countless times that gravity is a conservative field.

The burden of proof for extraordinary claims is on the claimant, or in this case you as the Devil's advocate arguing for the extraordinary claimant.  As long as gravity remains persistently a conservative field, Bessler's claims of a perpetual gravity wheel remain extraordinary claims against established known science.

The maid's testimony corroborates a conventional view.  No speculation of extraordinary events or circumstances is required to accept her account.  Speculation or extraordinary events and/or circumstances is required to discount her account. 

No one contradicted the maid by for example testifying that she was not present in the adjacent room turning the crank when she claimed she did.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #81 on: April 26, 2014, 10:51:54 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #82 on: April 26, 2014, 11:53:42 AM »

Tell me what will I get by giving you the secret, money? I dont think so. I need to work to feed my family. And I dont think the wheel will give me that instantly, you know I need to be really carefull about it so it doesnt fall into the wrong hand.


regards.

Why don't you build it first ... then you can worry about it falling into the "wrong hands". It's plain from your posts that you don't actually have anything built, you just have an "idea" that you think will work.

And instead of saving the world, you are concerned about personal profit. That's nice.... but why are you posting your secrets (or rather your dreams) on an Open Source website?


Offline gurangax

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #83 on: April 26, 2014, 12:17:44 PM »
It is clear that some of you dont know what my intention is. I have told here many many times already that I will disclose it meaning I will open source it, but also at the same time I dont know who is watching this forum so I will not disclose it immediately. But I promise you that I will open source it. It is so simple that even if I say it then you will immediately understand and there is nothing left for me to say. SO I will do it slowly until I feel its ok to spread it to the world.


I know that some companies are watching this forum. And I know I cant sell the thing so at the end when all is proved as I said it is, only then will I try to request for donations from anyone. I hope this is clear enough.


regards

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #83 on: April 26, 2014, 12:17:44 PM »
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Offline gurangax

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #84 on: April 26, 2014, 12:28:45 PM »

Can you turn the gear box flying in air?   You have to stand or sit firmly inside the car to turn the gear box. Where that force will act? 
 
To perform mechanical work in one direction, you should have equal force in opposite direction which follows directly from Newton's third law.  In a single system, these two forces cancel off and you will not get any useful work.


you are totaly right about the law, Bessler have no problem with that this is his description of the internal


"If one weight is giving an upward impetus, another one, at the same time, is giving an equal downward one."


so the question is what made it work?




regards





[/size]

Offline fletcher

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #85 on: April 26, 2014, 12:31:30 PM »
That's all great fun, except:

The sausages you ask for are laid before you daily in the form of the known science, tested countless times that gravity is a conservative field.

Yes Mark .. the sausages I seek work both ways, as you well know - proof for a PPM .. OR .. for a plausible way to fake his wheels & their performance - the only plausible way to fake these performances that I know of using materials but not technology of his day (not seen by me but heard described [from what I consider a very reliable source]) is to use a Stirling engine & hidden fuel supply that requires replenishment - the problem being that Stirling engines weren't invented & patented until a hundred years later [1816] .. AND .. if Bessler had used a primitive Stirling analogue then why didn't he just sell that new type of engine for profit rather than conceal it as a ruse for a PMM ?

Quote
The burden of proof for extraordinary claims is on the claimant, or in this case you as the Devil's advocate arguing for the extraordinary claimant.  As long as gravity remains persistently a conservative field, Bessler's claims of a perpetual gravity wheel remain extraordinary claims against established known science.

Yes Mark .. I know that argument very well having fallen back on it myself many times over many years [it's an easy fall back position] - discussion is shut down, & the message becomes stale, seemingly delivered by a one-trick-pony - personally I'd like to see discussion promoted here where someone like gurangax gets a fair chance to openly discuss their ideas & perhaps present evidence of any claims made - yes, I also have seen & recognize the same patterns that emerge here countless times, but I have also seen the same very predictable responses from the bleaches, delivered with little or no grace.

Quote
The maid's testimony corroborates a conventional view.  No speculation of extraordinary events or circumstances is required to accept her account.  Speculation or extraordinary events and/or circumstances is required to discount her account. 

No one contradicted the maid by for example testifying that she was not present in the adjacent room turning the crank when she claimed she did.

Quote

http://www.orffyre.com/chronology.html

1727
 
 On 28th November Bessler's maid, Anne Rosine Mauersbergerin, testifies to authorities that Bessler's wheels had all been turned manually by Bessler, his wife, his brother Gottfried and herself. She claimed the turning was carried out by a small crank in an adjoining room. She claimed the posts had been hollowed out and contained a long and thin piece of iron with a barb at the bottom which was attached to the shaft journal.

The maids accusations were discredited and the charges were dismissed. A long and difficult relationship existed between Mauersbergerin and Bessler and there is suggestion that she did not act alone in her accusations (Gartner). Bessler's reputation is permenantly damaged.
 
 Bessler destroys all documents, drawings and models that describe and prove his secret, in fear of it being stolen upon his arrest.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #85 on: April 26, 2014, 12:31:30 PM »
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Offline gurangax

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #86 on: April 26, 2014, 01:15:45 PM »
I have calculated the torque generation and sure enough the result is a runner. I dont think that Bessler even do the math.


-regards

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #87 on: April 26, 2014, 01:26:33 PM »
Do we really think that Bessler's maid was clever enough to figure out a possible faking method, if that method wasn't actually used? I doubt that, even more than I doubt that gurangax actually has any real devices built.



Offline TinselKoala

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #88 on: April 26, 2014, 01:28:35 PM »
I have calculated the torque generation and sure enough the result is a runner. I dont think that Bessler even do the math.


-regards

Feel free to show your working.

Note that if you do your math correctly and haven't made any mistakes, and you are using ordinary common physics.... you cannot reach an overunity result. On the other hand, if your normal math and physics leads to an overunity result, you have erred somewhere.

This is Ibison's Law, and it has never been known to be violated.


Offline gurangax

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Re: The Bessler Wheel, mystery solved.
« Reply #89 on: April 26, 2014, 01:33:57 PM »
Bessler said this


"It must, simply put, just revolve, without being wound-up, through the principle of 'excess weight'"


im not sure if the translation is correct but I will say it works by principle of weight shifting giving the excess torque which drives it.


-regards

 

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