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Author Topic: How Steorn Works  (Read 44265 times)

Offline dean_mcgowan

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Re: How Steorn Works
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2006, 08:24:45 AM »
Just watch ...

Their "research" will be a bunch of articles gathered together from the most notable people such as tesla and will be used to debunk our research and efforts even further into obscurity.

I hope for your own sakes that none of the pioneers amongst us are proferring their own research as proof of concept to aid this sham.

I smell a rat in the steorn cage... !!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How Steorn Works
« Reply #30 on: September 27, 2006, 08:24:45 AM »

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: How Steorn Works
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2006, 05:53:05 PM »
I for one am glad to see people are still willing to discuss this topic of "free energy" suppression, regardless if it's an undesirable topic.

Some of posts in this thread really key in just how difficult it is to get a legitimate "free energy" machine in public hands. So we should face it, it has not happened yet. If we are intelligent then we need to analyze why.

There is no coherent logical person who can rightfully deny the specified various legitimate reasons why certain groups would want to suppress this technology. Unfortunately there are legal passive techniques being used right under our own feet to guide people and suppress this technology. It is their goal to suppress as long as possible and surely they are gleaming cheek-to-cheek they have succeed this long.

Here are various reasons preventing legitimate scientists from completion:

1. Greed! Forget about yourself. When you finalize & thoroughly verify the machine then spread it like wild fires, PLEASE!
2. Total control. Long process of patenting, legalities, finding a willing manufacturer, funding, etc.
3. Just carelessly announcing the verified "free energy" machine. You need to either find a guaranteed method of publishing the exact build instructions or find key undisclosed people who will publish everything if something happens to you.

In reference to #3, above, note that in all likelihood any inventor working on a legitimate "free energy" machine is being watched. I have been a software engineer for 28 years, an System Admin since 1997, and understand Internet security. Even so, my machine is hacked at this very moment and has been for some time. Point being, you BETTER be certain that when you publish the exact build instructions of this smoking gun (a first in history) that your information is well received by sufficient people. Don't be afraid of these thugs. Just be smart, lets stop being so self-centered, do the right thing, and help humanity in a huge way.

I hope everyone has thought out just how vitally important "free energy" is for the planet and all life.

Paul Lowrance

Offline mikestocks2006

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Re: How Steorn Works
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2006, 06:30:15 PM »
I for one am glad to see people are still willing to discuss this topic of "free energy" suppression, regardless if it's an undesirable topic.

Some of posts in this thread really key in just how difficult it is to get a legitimate "free energy" machine in public hands. So we should face it, it has not happened yet. If we are intelligent then we need to analyze why.

There is no coherent logical person who can rightfully deny the specified various legitimate reasons why certain groups would want to suppress this technology. Unfortunately there are legal passive techniques being used right under our own feet to guide people and suppress this technology. It is their goal to suppress as long as possible and surely they are gleaming cheek-to-cheek they have succeed this long.

Here are various reasons preventing legitimate scientists from completion:

1. Greed! Forget about yourself. When you finalize & thoroughly verify the machine then spread it like wild fires, PLEASE!
2. Total control. Long process of patenting, legalities, finding a willing manufacturer, funding, etc.
3. Just carelessly announcing the verified "free energy" machine. You need to either find a guaranteed method of publishing the exact build instructions or find key undisclosed people who will publish everything if something happens to you.

In reference to #3, above, note that in all likelihood any inventor working on a legitimate "free energy" machine is being watched. I have been a software engineer for 28 years, an System Admin since 1997, and understand Internet security. Even so, my machine is hacked at this very moment and has been for some time. Point being, you BETTER be certain that when you publish the exact build instructions of this smoking gun (a first in history) that your information is well received by sufficient people. Don't be afraid of these thugs. Just be smart, lets stop being so self-centered, do the right thing, and help humanity in a huge way.

I hope everyone has thought out just how vitally important "free energy" is for the planet and all life.

Paul Lowrance

To an extent I have to agree with Paul both in the general picture and specifically about Steorn.

First, there is no ?proof? yet their device works, and on the same token there is not ?proof? that it doesn?t.

Second, how should they go about it? What is the best way?

Let?s focus on the ?proof?. How? Make a product and sell it? Lets? say it costs 25k to build one (just a figure I?m throwing out without basis). Yeah right! Who?s going to buy it? On just their claim.?
Heck they haven?t asked for any money or asked anyone to buy anything, they have put their own money and reputation on line and yet they are still been attacked all over the place. At this point we simply do not know. Let them do their thing and prove it.
All they ask is scientists, engineers, from all over the world test it and publish their results, positive or negative.

Jumping to conclusions and find them guilty of fraud, or believing they have it is at best baseless. The jury is still out so to speak.

People say hook it up to a generator and have it light up a bulb. Sure, how long before another poster claims fraud, (e.g. the generator is really a motor with a small hidden battery?you know the Li button cells can last for years in your watch).

There are so many ways to cheat with today?s technologies. Even an outside the visible spectrum light source, a puff of air, even a magnetic field from coils on the ceiling and floor away from camera?s view can be an outside source, there are very many more ways so I just mentioned few examples.
We can go into wild conspiracy theories too, but so far at least the money trail says they are risking their own capital and time for this. If what they do works, sure there are huge interests at risk. Trillions at stake.

IMO, the fact that their device is all mechanical with no coils or wires required for its operation (according to Steorn) makes it at least interesting and a bit more difficult to cheat and worth the wait for the publishings.

One thing I'm fairly certain of, if and when the results publishings come out AND they support thier initial claims, the reports will be greatly scrutinized to say the least.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How Steorn Works
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2006, 06:30:15 PM »
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Offline Liberty

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Re: How Steorn Works
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2006, 06:42:08 PM »

As far as free energy suppression:
I suspect that it is more likely a case that nobody has actually made and demonstrated a self running device (that is really useful).  (I have not seen one from anyone else so far, not even Steorn, at least not yet).  Let alone, a free energy device, which would be a self running device that can produce more energy than it uses to self run.

Do I believe that a self running machine can be made and built?  Yes, I do.  I am trying to see if it can be done.

Additionally, you can not publish an idea and then patent it.  The patent will be rejected on the basis that what you wanted to patent is already public knowledge.  That is why inventors don't make their invention public knowledge first.  Only under NDA for truly interested parties.

The other route, is to publically publish the idea and try to build and sell the devices yourself.  That takes a tremendous amount of start up expense that most inventors don't have, and requires a lot of employee power to construct the devices. 

Most inventors desire to opt for the patent and license the idea out to others that are already established as a manufacturer, so they can readily produce the device and pay royalties to the inventor as they sell them.  To openly publish an idea brings in nothing for the inventor unless he/she can also build and sell them in mass and afford the tremendous startup costs and employment costs.

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: How Steorn Works
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2006, 07:25:46 PM »
Hi Liberty,

Quote from: Liberty
you can not publish an idea and then patent it.  The patent will be rejected on the basis that what you wanted to patent is already public knowledge.  That is why inventors don't make their invention public knowledge first.  Only under NDA for truly interested parties.
The idea is to first get build the machine and verify. It's not about publishing an idea. Rather you want to fully verify that it works then publish, and after that you have one year to patent in the U.S.

I've spoken with dozens of experts in the field of patenting. The publisher has one year to patent in the U.S.  If you are not the publisher than you cannot patent it. You have to appreciably improve or change the design if you wanted to patent another persons published work.


Quote from: Liberty
The other route, is to publically publish the idea and try to build and sell the devices yourself.  That takes a tremendous amount of start up expense that most inventors don't have, and requires a lot of employee power to construct the devices.
No offense intended, but I don't see your logic and really think you have it backwards.  You can legally publishing for free. Or there are companies that specialize in this and will publish for roughly $150.
As far as cost of building, it depends on the machine. The idea is just to build a working model regardless how ugly it is. You don't need to spend millions on having professionally beautiful molds made, etc. This goal should be about getting the first published smoking gun, which should not cost that much for most magnetic designs.

If by unfortunate chance one's design is costly and they cannot save up enough money in a relatively short period of time then it's difficult to ask for money in this industry that for the most part immediately suspects scams in such cases.

I for example am working on a design that would cost a person less than ~$100 to completely build. Does it have some fancy casing or logs, etc. etc. etc.? No, of course not!  I am not in this industry to make a fortune because I have done my research on this industries history ... I know for fact a group is hacking in machine and what they are analyzing!!

Anyone who is in this industry to make a fortune is in for a world of surprise.


Quote from: Liberty
Most inventors desire to opt for the patent and license the idea out to others that are already established as a manufacturer, so they can readily produce the device and pay royalties to the inventor as they sell them.  To openly publish an idea brings in nothing for the inventor unless he/she can also build and sell them in mass and afford the tremendous startup costs and employment costs.
The concept of global "free energy" is a little bigger than any single person or family. IMHO the focus on the self when given the present condition of this planet and world is nothing short of ignorance and/or selfishness.

I predict the person to succeed will be one who is selflessness, giving to others, and will freely publish the exact build instructions. :)

Paul Lowrance

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How Steorn Works
« Reply #34 on: September 27, 2006, 07:25:46 PM »
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Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: How Steorn Works
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2006, 07:41:22 PM »
Hi mikestocks2006,

I agree that we should give Steorn the benefit of the doubt. I recall seeing a picture of their machine or one of them and I believe it had electric motors, which consists of coils and magnetic materials.

We should not get our hopes up on Steorn. We should continue our research. When we get attached to something is when we may be hurt and discouraged. If it is true what a physicist told me that Steorn was started by the group within the science community for the purpose of inflicting damage then we should not allow it to affect us.

Lets all please just continue our research regardless what distractions and noise we hear.

One thing that is very important ->

We should always build a machine when the following conditions are met:

1. The inventor claims it is self-running and runs forever or until the machine breaks.
2. The inventor freely publishes the entire exact build instructions.
3. If you can afford to build the machine.

And I would add that it would help if the inventor sounds very sincere and is not hiding anything.  I am not suggesting that we should not build any other devices. Of course we should. I am saying we should always build a machine with the above conditions. It would be a crime if a legitimate inventor publishes the real self-running smoking gun and those with hidden agendas who flood this industry distract us into not building it.

Paul Lowrance

Offline Jowik

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Re: How Steorn Works
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2006, 09:56:46 PM »
Steorn's FAQ is being posted in their forum: http://www.steorn.net/forum

Cheers,

John

http://association-steorn.orientalfans.com/steorn

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How Steorn Works
« Reply #36 on: September 27, 2006, 09:56:46 PM »
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Offline mikestocks2006

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Re: How Steorn Works
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2006, 11:12:16 PM »
Hi mikestocks2006,

I agree that we should give Steorn the benefit of the doubt. I recall seeing a picture of their machine or one of them and I believe it had electric motors, which consists of coils and magnetic materials.

We should not get our hopes up on Steorn. We should continue our research. When we get attached to something is when we may be hurt and discouraged. If it is true what a physicist told me that Steorn was started by the group within the science community for the purpose of inflicting damage then we should not allow it to affect us.

Lets all please just continue our research regardless what distractions and noise we hear.

One thing that is very important ->

We should always build a machine when the following conditions are met:

1. The inventor claims it is self-running and runs forever or until the machine breaks.
2. The inventor freely publishes the entire exact build instructions.
3. If you can afford to build the machine.

And I would add that it would help if the inventor sounds very sincere and is not hiding anything.  I am not suggesting that we should not build any other devices. Of course we should. I am saying we should always build a machine with the above conditions. It would be a crime if a legitimate inventor publishes the real self-running smoking gun and those with hidden agendas who flood this industry distract us into not building it.

Paul Lowrance


I think you were referring to a test setup they had on display. The wires are most likely part of the encoders and torque meters.

I think from their chat Q&A and the video and some of their intitial talk on their site, the actual device is all mechanical.

>>Q: Permanent or electric magnets? Or both?
Sean_McCarthy: Permanent
Q: are you saying that the picture on your site is not the actual device?
Sean_McCarthy: As it says in the name of the file it is a test system. Note the torque sensors and angle transducers.
Q: What is the device we see you kneeling next to in the images available on the website?
Sean_McCarthy: That is a test system
<<

Either way, it seems they are doing it the proper way so far, and they will be publishing the results either good or bad.
The burden of proof is on the "jury" now, for the rest of us we can keep an open and objective mind, until the answers are there.
Thx

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: How Steorn Works
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2006, 11:23:05 PM »
Hi mikestocks2006,

I don't see how a 100% mechanical device is going to generate free energy.  Thanks for the quotes. I found some more which also indicate magnetic properties are used, which IMHO would favor a legitimate "free energy" machine

Quotes:

Q: Is this technology apart from magnetism incorporates gravity as well?
Sean_McCarthy: No, the technology is based only on magnetic fields

Q: Permanent or electric magnets? Or both?
Sean_McCarthy: Permanent


Paul Lowrance

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How Steorn Works
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2006, 11:23:05 PM »
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Offline mikestocks2006

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Re: How Steorn Works
« Reply #39 on: September 29, 2006, 12:38:05 AM »
Hi mikestocks2006,

I don't see how a 100% mechanical device is going to generate free energy.  Thanks for the quotes. I found some more which also indicate magnetic properties are used, which IMHO would favor a legitimate "free energy" machine

Quotes:

Q: Is this technology apart from magnetism incorporates gravity as well?
Sean_McCarthy: No, the technology is based only on magnetic fields

Q: Permanent or electric magnets? Or both?
Sean_McCarthy: Permanent


Paul Lowrance

Based on what we are taught so far and most of what we have experienced, I'd agree that it's tough to accept it, 100% mechanical device generating added energy.
But maybe this is the reason for all this to be happening. An anomaly or an unexplained phenomenon, not previously encountered and/or verified by others. I consider magnetic effects as part of an all mechanical system with no coils or wires involved. They said a certain arrangement of magnets/fields had created some unexplained results....

Steorn also mentioned:
 "What I said was that we had never connected the technology to a generator, i.e. we have not set it up to produce electrical power, just mechanical. Some may find this strange but you need to understand that the energy involved is mechanical. As stated the technology does self sustain, and hence output is connected to input"

also

"Sorry that I did not answer all your questions. We have run the system through very long cycle runs, stoping it every 600 cycles to test the magnetic domains (there is no errosion on the magnetic domains). The technology produces mechanical energy, and no we have not hooked it up to a generator, instead we have demonstrated power output by moving weights."

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: How Steorn Works
« Reply #40 on: September 29, 2006, 01:36:51 AM »
I'm wondering if there are any other Steorn quotes that can clarify this. It seems Steorn was merely talking about the mechanical output. For example, an electrical motor is mechanical output.

If the Steorn machine is not electrical then it could still be MCE (magnetocaloric effect). One thing about MCE is that it does not require electrical current. It merely requires a magnetic field, so a permanent magnet would also work.  I think in order to potentially extract MCE energy with just PM's you would have to have fast rotating parts. One of interest that comes to mind is the Searl effect. Anyone remember the Searl disk?

http://www.sisrc.com

I think Steorn seems legitimate so far even though I have this feeling it's a bust cooked up by the science community, which is what a scientist told me. If it's legitimate then yeehaaa!  If it's a bust then I for one will not be distracted or disappointed in the very least and I hope everyone here feels the same!!!

Paul Lowrance

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: How Steorn Works
« Reply #40 on: September 29, 2006, 01:36:51 AM »
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Offline Jowik

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Re: How Steorn Works
« Reply #41 on: September 29, 2006, 01:54:09 AM »
This was taken from Steorn's FAQ on the Technical:

As previously stated we continue to file patents on the technology as we find better ways to achieve the same result. As a result we have to be careful about the details that we place in the public domain (as such public comments could be deemed prior art). Hence I will not be in a position to post significant technical details, however there follows an overview:

Core Technology
The core technology is the ability to construct certain magnetic fields (using permanent magnets) that when other magnetic materials travel around a closed trajectory within these fields a non-zero energy sum is achieved (after compensating for friction losses). For a fixed trajectory travel around a closed loop in one direction will gain energy and travel around the loop in the other direction will results in an energy loss.

The trajectories themselves may not be a simple circular loop, they can involve complex paths through the field (depending on the specific construction of the field).

Such a gain in ?mechanical? energy is in itself not a violation of the 1st Law of Thermodynamics since there are other energies involved in the system. However tests have shown that there is no degradation of the magnetic domains as a result of this mechanical energy gain/loss (i.e. the magnets are not being drained of their energy) and there is no change in environmental energy (due to a magneto calorific effect) associated with the mechanical energy gain/loss.

Testing
The core technology is tested in a variety of different ways, including mechanical energy measurement systems (static and dynamic) magnetic field measuring equipment and temperature measurement equipment. We also test by moving weights to demonstrate external work done (over the losses due to friction).

Status of the Technology
The technology is at a prototype stage, i.e. we are not yet at the point of developing commercial products. Both the prototypes and the core technology is under constant development.


I know that the above is a limited amount of information and will cause yet more frustration, however the ultimate answer to the key question will have to be answered by the Jury.

Offline Ekfugo

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Re: How Steorn Works
« Reply #42 on: October 02, 2006, 10:43:44 PM »
Personally, I am very suspicious of the fact that STEORN has been able to receive so much positive media coverage.

I have seen them on FOX News, and on another important interview on Fox cable with their business guy Neil Cavuto.  I've heard from others that STEORN's been featured on CNN, and may shortly be on with Larry King.

The overwhelming majority of those promoting new energy devices face tremendous suppression - STEORN has offered very little to the "skeptic", or to the (normally) hostile media, yet they don't appear to have much opposition.

~ Ek

Offline PaulLowrance

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Re: How Steorn Works
« Reply #43 on: October 03, 2006, 06:48:25 PM »
Thanks for quotes Jowik. Have you seen any of these detailed experiments where they supposedly take these measurements?

Quote from: Ekfugo
Personally, I am very suspicious of the fact that STEORN has been able to receive so much positive media coverage.

I have seen them on FOX News, and on another important interview on Fox cable with their business guy Neil Cavuto.  I've heard from others that STEORN's been featured on CNN, and may shortly be on with Larry King.

The overwhelming majority of those promoting new energy devices face tremendous suppression - STEORN has offered very little to the "skeptic", or to the (normally) hostile media, yet they don't appear to have much opposition.
I agree it seems suspicious for also other reasons, but we have to give them the benefit of the doubt.

Ekfugo, if Steorn turns out to be a failure, will it somehow discourage you away from the "free energy" community?  I really want to know other people's feelings and thoughts on this.  It is really concerning there are companies and people making huge claims of success time after time and they simple fade away, never hearing much about them anymore.

What is concerning is the claims without any detailed experiments. If these experiments are available I would like to see them.  I cannot imagine in a million years making such a discovery, completing a "free energy" machine, going on national TV shows, etc. and not at least publishing simple experiments where they took detailed energy environment measurements.

Paul Lowrance

Offline Liberty

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Re: How Steorn Works
« Reply #44 on: October 03, 2006, 08:05:18 PM »
Concerning Steorn,

In my opinion, I too find it disturbing that they have not released any test data or output figures whatsoever.  For such a claim to be made, and then not give out any data to back it up is highly suspicious to say the least.  They should reconsider their secrecy and open up a little more to maintain their integrity.  A claim in such a public way should be ready to be backed up with hard data tests, and shouldn't wait for a jury to decide in a month or 10 years.  If it's that good, they should be safe in saying so and stand behind their claim with real test data.  I doubt that test data reports (even if in error) will impact Intellectual Property.

 

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