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Discussion board help and admin topics => Half Baked Ideas => Topic started by: dean_mcgowan on August 29, 2006, 07:26:33 AM
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A couple of pics to start with .. more explanation to come ..
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pic 2
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pic 3
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The cone with the phi spiral of magnets is seated inside the cone with the 3 exteral bar magnets.
The external cone is seated in a box with a lid that has the North facing magnet seated in the middle facing downward, A core is attached to the cone containing the spiral magnets that has a North facing magnet pointed upward to push the inner cone downwards.
Have a crack at it guys .. my attempts so far have been encouraging.
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N
__N __
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A little more info...
The phi spiral of magnets are north facing outwards. The bar magnets are north facing inwards.
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Known issues so far.
Magnets not strong enough (weight to power ratio too low)
I am expecting that the upward vector of the repulsion effect would be greater than it is so I am going to try this again with a higher gauss set of neos. I think using stronger bar mags will do it.
Anyhow .. off to make more money for my experiments.
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Concepts:
Zero friction : Inner cone floats/rotates on magnetic field.
Instability of system : helps to overcome magnetic lockups as opposed to the standard fixed system of magnets.
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Hi Dean,
This is a very novel idea and seems to be a blend of things that I have both seen and thought of. The closest thing that comes to mind for me is the Mikell Device (http://www.fdp.nu/mikelldevice/thedevice.asp). The idea you have is very likely to work simply because you are using a spiral rather than a closed magnetic path for the motor to run. Could you perhaps upload a video of the motor so we can see how it behaves as it is now? If you don't have a camera, could you explain how it is acting when you try to get it to go. Though you stated that the magnets were weak, did you feel a torque all the way around it 360 degrees?
I have a suggestion for you to try using the magnets you have now. Instead of putting the long magnets in direct repulsion with the spiral, try placing them at 90 degrees to the spiral magnet (turn them on their sides facing the cone). This is in keeping with some research that I have been doing on something I call the 90 degree rule (http://www.fdp.nu/free_energy.asp?book=90).
God Bless,
Jason O
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Jason,
I have tried various configurations, the image shown with the spiral of magnets is incomplete, I have tried with a set of 2 180 degree sets of spirals as indicated with the image drawn in one cone. various spacings and stackings of neos as shown in the other image.
There is very little resistence or locking in the system that I am quite convinced can be overcome as I can easily turn the cone through 360 degrees as long as a certain distance is kept between the cones, hence I am going to try with stonger bar magnets to increase this vertical gap.
Much more experimentation to go on with however my instincts are saying this is a good idea.
I am no expert in the field of magnetics, but i have read a lot online and researched about all there is to read over the last 3 - 4 years (online material only). I have examined every configuration and figured it time for me to put my 2 cents worth up for people to consider.
Thankyou for your encouraging words.
Regards,
Dean MCGowan
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dean
have you considered your are leaving out the other half of the univers? there is a neg and pos to everything. when you consider it there might be waves coming and going but still it is there. you just have to figure out how to deal with them. your setup has to this into account and to do this you must take a look at the other side. there are equal and oppossite effects going on at all time in your machine. without looking at the otherside of this equation you will constantly be stuck.
lol
sam
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Sam,
Sorry for the delay in getting back to you.
I do understand where you are coming from with the sphere inside a sphere. Its really good and has been suggested to me once before by a friend who is a geologist when he first saw what i was trying to do.
Stabilisation of the internal sphere was something that came to mind and that would introduce a requirement of a fixed relationship as opposed to the free floating cone within a cone arrangement.
I wish to eliminate any friction in the system, hence loss of energy through dissipation of heat.
The final plan would also include the feature of the box containing the cones being a vaccum to reduce friction from air vortices etc.
Though having said this it may be possible to have an inverted set of cones stacked on top instead of the repulsive magnets on the core and box lids.
Must be a million different configurations, maybe even half cone half sphere options, like an icecream cone.
I will proceed till I have made a decent prototype of this initial idea and see what the results dictate
So many things to try hey :D
Early days for this idea I suppose.
Thanks for your valuable input.
Dean
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dean
thanks for the reply and sorry for the typeo's in mine.
picture the fact that to gain the ultimate effieciency from yor unit you will have to form an "EQUATOR" somehow. i am as stumped to do this in a frictionless environment as you. maybe a magnetic bearing at the poles? in most all planetary bodies ( spheres) the magnetic north is slightly offset. is there a reason? maybe to overcome the friction of a (pole BEARING weight)? there has to be a reason for this in the earth.
think if you had a N/S center magnet in your device that was a sphere within a shere, slightly off of the true pole setting. this might make the overall shere wobble slightly as Earth does, due to the added enertia.
so in conclussion i think you should revisit the sphere in a sphere concept or look very closely at the inverted cone or cones concept to help you complete the full 360 x 360 sphere or hyperbole that you may have envisioned by now.
good luck with all. iknow you are on the right track!
lol
sam :)
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dean
have you looked at the work kosol? you might want to google "kosol device" and see where it takes us . i hadn't seen it until today. looks enteresting if you are looking out side the circle and already to the spiral.
lol
sam
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http://freeenergynews.com/Directory/Howard_Johnson_Motor/Mikell/index.html
Similar
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dean
have you looked at the work kosol? you might want to google "kosol device" and see where it takes us . i hadn't seen it until today. looks enteresting if you are looking out side the circle and already to the spiral.
lol
sam
Sam,
I did investigate the kosol group some time ago and became a group member. I just felt the whole thing started to lose its grounding in reality. There are some really good thinkers there and they are quite inspiring, yet and I do say this with respect to its members, I feel the general process has been hijacked by a spiritual movement and that for me at least does not appeal. I would much prefer to remain with both feet on the ground and build things and test them and attempt to improve on the results.
Kosol did come forward with a proposal much like what you suggested with the sphere within a sphere Idea, However let me say why I think this wont work. The symmetry inherent in the system is what I am attempting to negate. The inspiration for my idea derives more from another physical system known as the "clem device" see: http://www.keelynet.com/energy/clemcone.htm and the obvious deficiencies of all linear based systems of magnet motor design whereby the locking is inevitable due to the fixed positions of the magnets within the system. I am attempting to draw on the observable universe and facts such that you have duely noted, like the earth wobbles on its axis to provide clues on how these systems perpetuate and seem to draw in energy whilst doing so.
Consider that the earth as such sits in a gravity well, and channels energy from the magnetic flux lines of the sun
through its poles enabling it to spin whilst balanced. Yes I know, an oversimplified analogy based on some hyperbole from the electric universe crowd, yet somehow this makes sense to me.
I suppose this is what I am attempting to acheive with my designs.
I am just a hack "having a go" at the end of the day, and I am not ashamed to admit it. I don't believe the aliens endowed me with this knowledge or that I am a channel for the "beings of light". And if it works then as my kids say to me.. "How sick would that be dad!, you could put a propeller on top and it would make a kewl helicopter that would fly on its own like a kite and have a string attached... etc etc etc". Gotta love em !!
Thanks again for your thoughts Sam.
Cheers,
Dean McGowan
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dean thanks for the reply.
i think i understand where you are coming from with "king" kosol. just an interesting concept. in that it could solve alot of problems with the sticking point. in that with a sphere mounted magnet set up you have all the benifits of the cone mounted magnet set up without having to physically move magnets up and down or in and out of influence. and you also take advantage of the other half of the equation. the other side.
where have your magnets been placed when you have had your best results? like have you figured out what angles around a circle have worked best so far?
i still can't help but find sticking points everywhere.
look forward to your reply.
sam
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dean:
i took a look at your machine it might work if you create a feild that is stonger by adding more twists. What about one row of declining magnets around the first large end of the cone, then make the next row follow both the first row of declining and the spiral.
it currently has row list as follows
1
3
4
6
4
3
both sides
It might look like this in stacked magnetic
1 3 4 6 4 3
3 4 6 4 3 1
4 6 4 3 1 3
6 4 3 1 3 4
4 3 1 3 4 6
3 1 3 4 6 1
you can see in the row of threes this in a spiral should set up to turn.
I have a copy of one that i designed a couple of years ago, ill redraw it so that you can see what in talking about. Hope to post the drawing in a bit.
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DD,
Thats actually a very good idea, I am going to go back to working on this in the very near future, I had to wait for time and ofcourse money to prevail before attempting further, as the results initally were good except that the upward vector of force was not enough to keep the 2 cones seperated , though if i spun the device it had very little resistance overcoming the locking point till the 2 cones came closer in proximity.
Any magnet freaks out there want to give this a go please do as I am hoping people click on to the idea as it IMHO has some merrit.
Regards,
Dean
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I like the PHI angle here I have been playing myself after looking at ancient pictures.
After watching a lecture one weekend at conference by Crichton E M Miller http://www.crichtonmiller.com
I spotted a slide he was presenting on wheels. and in amongst it was the Anazasi Serpent http://www.crichtonmiller.com/the_cross_and_the_serpent.htm
I spoke to Crichton after his lecture regards perpetual motion and he is a very open guy with some very unique angles that this could in theory be achieved, his outlook was based more on the wobble effect motion the same as planets rotate, but it still follows a rule. So interesting stuff.
I overlayed the PHI spiral on the Anazasi Serpent wheel and it a close match as shown below.
(http://www.cncdudez.com/Indiangolden.jpg)
Something I plan on working more with must admit.
Regards
Sean.
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Sean,
The phi spiral i use is first laid out as a 2d representation on the flat piece of paper on a 180 degree semi circle where the line of the phi spiral is split then matched up to the coordinates on the other (180) and then the paper is curled up into 3d space to form the cone (360).
Just in case that wasnt apparent ..
In relation to the serpants you may also want to look up the representation of the three rabbits in the perpetual mothion cycle. I think i saw this on jason martells website xfacts.com, though i personally think these representations are more art than they are confirmation of scientific theories.
Inspiring all the same.
Cheers,
Dean
Be Happy :D
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You could say this is the same idea as the magnetic "ramp" (with a twist) to add a little more angular momentum. Bottom line is that it won't work any more than the ramps did.