Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: dieter on April 11, 2014, 01:35:49 AM

Title: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: dieter on April 11, 2014, 01:35:49 AM
I currently have some issues in determing a perfect power switching system with a magnet sensor, for use in pulse motors.


Reed switches:  They are great in that they are passive, so they don't waste any energy, and they are quick, causing a true square signal, but they tend to burn out quickly. Although their livespan can be increased by several principles:
-don't let the back emf go trough the reed switch.
-don't let any high power go trough a tiny switch .
See also here:

 www.reed-sensor.com/Notes/Protection_Circuits.htm

Also, big Reed switches for watts are expensive and they also attract the rotor, and did I already say that they burn out on a regular basis?

.........

Hall sensors, ideal one might think. I have just designed a pulse motor with a hall sensor. It works, although the problem is:  the hall sensor needs 5 V in, so I need to lower the supply voltage, wasting maybe 15mW already. Then I have to use a transistor for the hall sensor output. I use a tip 2955, works well, but is easily burned when the coils induction or the supply power or the heatsink is wrong. Also, the turn off isn't as sudden as in a reed switch, which is bad for back emf harvesting. This whole circuit, together with a 1.6 kOhm pulse coil, dissipates 300 mW, but the coil alone only about 25mW... a lot of circuit loss.

So I wonder, did anybody ever try to build a long living reed switch, eg. one that is filled with oil to suppress sparking??

Regards
 
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: TinselKoala on April 11, 2014, 05:39:37 AM
MHOP:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLml9VdOeqKa8F1PebS_EX7AX2aA_ZZtb9

Long-lived reed switches are mercury-wetted (not oil) and are protected from arcing by external capacitors etc. They are the simplest way to produce fast risetime pulses but as you note they are delicate and expensive and do fail in various inconvenient ways.

You may not be using the "best" Hall sensor for your application. Try Allegro Microsystems Hall sensors: Unipolar non-latching switch, and ratiometric types.





Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: conradelektro on April 11, 2014, 09:49:26 AM
I like trigger coils very much, because they are simple and can easily be wound at home. Also coils from relays can be used as trigger coils (because they have many turns of fine wire).

The best idea concerning trigger coils came from TinselKoala who uses an OpAmp to increase the sensitivity of a trigger coil.

I attach a circuit from TinselKoala (TL082, which he published in this forum) and a circuit which I developed based on his idea (LM311, for a low power pulse motor).

A very good OpAmp would be the MAX931, but I never got around to use it myself.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: dieter on April 11, 2014, 11:39:47 AM
Thanks a lot for your answers, some interesting information.
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: conradelektro on April 11, 2014, 02:55:32 PM
A method of driving a pulse motor just with the drive coil interested me for some time. The drive coil can also be the sensor or trigger coil.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OqQSJjRJ6EQ  I made a video of such a pulse motor and also show the drive circuit in the video.

As far as I know this circuit was invented by a person with the nick name DadHav. Look at the INFO of the video where I put a link to DadHav's video.


I also attach a very simple pulse motor drive circuit (which needs at least one drive coil and a trigger coil) and the photo of a ring magnet spinner (diametrically magnetized) driven with this circuit. All this has been discussed in this forum (but I have forgotten in which thread). The coils were taken from relays.

The coils need a very high DC resistance (very many turns of very thin wire). The coils I use had a DC resistance of ~4 K. If the DC resistance is smaller you have to use a different transistor.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: TinselKoala on April 11, 2014, 03:53:13 PM
Those are great and handy circuits. I've never been able to get them to "self start" when power is applied, it always seems to take a pretty good spin. I also don't know if the power-take-off can work with those circuits. Can you siphon off the spike from the coil and charge a capacitor to higher voltage than the supply?

I guess I should build another one and try. I can't find my proper magnets, though, I'll have to make some kind of special rotor out of separate magnets.

 
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: conradelektro on April 11, 2014, 06:06:09 PM
Those are great and handy circuits. I've never been able to get them to "self start" when power is applied, it always seems to take a pretty good spin. I also don't know if the power-take-off can work with those circuits. Can you siphon off the spike from the coil and charge a capacitor to higher voltage than the supply?

The circuits I showed do not self start, one has to give the rotor a spin by hand.

I was mostly interested in building a very low power pulse motor and this made the spike very weak. To do something interesting with the spike you need a good solid current running through the drive coil first (1 Ampere or more).

The attached Hall Sensor circuit produced interesting spikes. The drive coils had 260 Ohm DC resistance. But with coils having e.g. 50 Ohm DC resistance the spike would be even more interestingly strong.

I observed that harvesting the spike reduces the speed of the rotor.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: synchro1 on April 11, 2014, 08:07:59 PM

Quote from Conradelectro:

"The best idea concerning trigger coils came from TinselKoala who uses an OpAmp to increase the sensitivity of a trigger coil".

Milehigh originated the idea for the OpAmp circuit, not Tinselkoala!

The Tesla series bifilar power coil projects a "Magnetic Scalar" wave at high speeds that propels the magnet spinner with additional velocity. Try to power your reed switch spinner with a series wrapped bifilar solenoid, and compare the speed to input ratio over the single wire coil.
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: TinselKoala on April 11, 2014, 08:28:55 PM
Quote from Conradelectro:

"The best idea concerning trigger coils came from TinselKoala who uses an OpAmp to increase the sensitivity of a trigger coil".

Milehigh originated the idea for the OpAmp circuit, not Tinselkoala!
That's right, that's why it is called the MHOP: Mile High Op-Amp driver.

He had the idea, I just did all the work. Credit where credit is due!

Quote

The Tesla series bifilar power coil projects a "Magnetic Scalar" wave at high speeds that propels the magnet spinner with additional velocity. Try to power your reed switch spinner with a series wrapped bifilar solenoid, and compare the speed to input ratio over the single wire coil.

That's a crock of cheese. Even if there is a difference in speed that does not require a "magnetic scalar wave", whatever that is.
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: synchro1 on April 11, 2014, 08:33:24 PM
@TK,


       You're the Liederkranz! The "Vortex": This wave has the magnetic poles trailing one another at 180 degrees, and resembles a smoke ring that's shrinks and expands as it travels. However, the series bifilar solenoid generates a transverse wave along with the longitudinal, with the magnetic poles at 90 degrees! The series bifilar spiral toroid that I created reduces the transverse wave and projects an even more powerful longitudinal EG wave. Professor Meyl has determined there are two varieties of "Scalar Waves": The electric and the magnetic.
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: kEhYo77 on April 11, 2014, 08:48:57 PM
Why not to use a reed switch to apply a voltage to the gate of a mosfet, with a pull down resistor?
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: synchro1 on April 11, 2014, 09:02:18 PM
The series bifilar coil no longer even needs a switch over the self acceleration threshold. The "Scalar Wave" increases in power and begins to drive the spinner at a new pitch way over the rated circuit switch speed. The longitudinal magnet wave has a back to back pulse included in it! Take another look at the schematic in the comment above!
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: conradelektro on April 11, 2014, 09:34:49 PM
Why not to use a reed switch to apply a voltage to the gate of a mosfet, with a pull down resistor?

Yes, one can do that and it will help to have a long life of the reed switch.

The main advantage of a reed switch usually is that one does not need any electronic component besides it (just a battery, reed switch and drive coil). If you are prepared to use a transistor (MOSFET) then it costs very little more to add a hall sensor in order to get a reliable and accurately switching circuit.

A reed switch can not switch at high frequency, can not switch a high current and is probably more expensive than the transistor plus the hall sensor.

The modern pulse motor circuit would be a hall sensor and a MOSFET. One could throw in a little microprocessor in order to generate some fancy timing (hall sensor, microprocessor, MOSFET).

A trigger coil (instead of the hall sensor) plus an OpAmp is a nerdy solution just for the fun of it.

A trigger coil plus a transistor is a nice home made solution, but there really is no valid reason not to use a hall sensor.

But if we want to be cynical, there is no valid reason to use a pulse motor in the real world. Use these new three phase brushless motors which you see in quadro copters or model airplanes. Some good drive circuits use hall sensors on the face of the motor.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: dieter on April 11, 2014, 10:17:56 PM
Conrad,


I agree, for BEMF harvesting a low impedance and a high inductance is required. Few Ohms, but enough mass to create a strong field. I had problems with too little resistance, at a higher RPM the tip2955 would simply go in a on mode, maybe because the supply voltage dropped, the hall sensor latched? It does so whenever there is a contact interruption, eg. by a loose aligator clip when touched. So a few dozen of ohms should it be at least IMHO.


For a good square waveform, it may be useful to use a nand gate chip like the 4011, that will make 0 and 1 out of an analog signal, it may dissipate less than an OA and can trigger any Transistor easily, and it's cheap.


Harvesting the Back EMF may indeed reduce RPM, but maybe this can be optimized by:


Let the BEMF flow trough the drive coil with a rather high load at the "end", the load should not delay the BEMF as capacitors or inductors do. But finally, the BEMF is not for free, so a certain reduction in RPM is to be expected.


High Voltage peaks of a BEMF may however be used in a Bedini Style Battery reconditioning System, at least.


A quick diode like a schottky should be used to catch the BEMF, as well as a cap with a few hundred volts to be able to collect the preaks, I guess.
As it was mentioned, mercury tipped reed contacts are used... doesn't that evaporate? Could gallium be used instead?


Regards
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: TinselKoala on April 11, 2014, 10:21:35 PM
The motor that probably shouldn't work, but does: the Marinov Slab. (bottom view)

One Hall sensor, one capacitor, one resistor, one mosfet, one battery, no cores, two rotor magnets, one switch. No armature back-reaction. Or so it could be claimed.

Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: TinselKoala on April 11, 2014, 10:24:43 PM
If reduction in RPM when you "harvest BEMF"  is a problem... just get rid of the rotor.

 ;) ;D ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0sjqoshznU
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: synchro1 on April 11, 2014, 10:29:31 PM
@Conradelektro,


                        Who wants to grow cynical? The series bifilar coil generates a longitudinal A.C signal over the phase conjunction resonance of 25K that is reinforced by background power that begins to drive a spinning magnet rotor with no additional input. Why don't you remove the magnets from your "Synchro Coil" and try the serial bifilar to power a diametric spinner? The pulsed D.C reed switch motor turns into a synchronous A.C. motor at threshold speed that is so efficient it begins to power itself. This effect is awesome and wrong to trivialize!
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: dieter on April 12, 2014, 12:16:17 AM
Synchro1 , any working device you can show us?


BTW. Tinsel, yes you can get rid of the rotor, but eg. a  selfoscillating Bedini SSG circuit will draw substancially more current than the same with a rotating rotor., at least that's what some observers of said selfoscillation phenomen (since it is no selfoscillator circuit per sé) said.


Explain that  :P


Regards.
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: synchro1 on April 12, 2014, 12:22:02 AM
The longitudinal A.C. magnet wave has nothing to do with the A.C. Hertzian sine wave and just penetrates the induction coil, unlike it's transverse compliment. The magnet wave needs a magnet receiver coil to collect the power, whereas the pulsed or A.C. powered series bifilar can inductively couple to another bifilar coil alone, without the magnet core receiver inside the coil to help transform the signal.


The magnet core "Synchro Coil" is not an induction coil that generates current from spinning magnet flux induction, but a magnet wave receiver coil that collects output from the series bifilar power coil generated magnet waves. The spinning magnet powers the series bifilar magnet wave, and the bifilar coil generates the magnet wave output, not the spinning magnet. Not only is this alternator self powering, but the output is Lenz free.
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: MileHigh on April 12, 2014, 01:04:36 AM
Lucy in the Sky, with Diamonds!
Lucy in the Sky, with Diamonds!
Lucy in the Sky, with Diamonds!
loooooool oh loooooool
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: TinselKoala on April 12, 2014, 01:00:47 PM
Synchro1 , any working device you can show us?


BTW. Tinsel, yes you can get rid of the rotor, but eg. a  selfoscillating Bedini SSG circuit will draw substancially more current than the same with a rotating rotor., at least that's what some observers of said selfoscillation phenomen (since it is no selfoscillator circuit per sé) said.


Explain that  :P


Regards.

Why should I? The MHOP is better than Bedini in all respects. It even self-starts. No power need be wasted in turning the rotor. If Bedini motors draw more power without the rotor interfering with their oscillations, that's just too bad for Bedini-builders! When people start desulphating their batteries with the MHOP circuit instead of ridiculous Bedini transistor-burners, they'll see the difference immediately. Heck the money saved by not using the excess copper in the Bedini-coils will pay for the op-amp, and a good high-voltage mosfet is cheaper and outperforms the 2n3055 any day.

Go ahead, prove me wrong!
 ;)
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: synchro1 on April 12, 2014, 05:51:39 PM
@Tinselkoala and Milehigh,


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr3Olkd_5EI (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pr3Olkd_5EI)


Here's a good video from Tinselkoala on the Faraday cage. Tinselkoala demonstrates that his wireless transmitter coil is producing two types of waves, a transverse and a longitudinal. The inductive coupling is completely curtailed by the cage, but TK has a magnet inductor inside that registers negative voltage. This looks like a modified Bedini style "Scalar Wave" detecter. My first question is; What would the voltage polarity read if the inductor magnets were reversed in direction, rather then the DMM electrodes?


Secondly; We need a similar test on two pulse coils, one single wrap and the other series bifilar. The Faraday cage should stall the single pulse coil spinner, and allow the series bifilar, magnet wave powered spinner, to continue to turn with what appears to be a negative voltage wave.


I wrote and asked TK to test Chiral Homopolar balance magnets this way to prove or disprove Jerry Bayles contention that they are oscillated by longitudinal gravity waves at 2Pi hertz resonance. These tests are very important, and Tinselkoala already has an apparatus in inventory.   


 
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: dieter on April 12, 2014, 07:58:06 PM
This became pretty off topic.
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: synchro1 on April 13, 2014, 12:40:14 AM
@Dieiter,


 The MHOP circuit was developed on the "Self Accelerating Reed Switch Thread". 
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: conradelektro on April 13, 2014, 10:54:51 AM
If reduction in RPM when you "harvest BEMF"  is a problem... just get rid of the rotor.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0sjqoshznU

I did not understand this rotor-less idea at the time TinselKoala showed it in this forum and on YouTube.

But now finally I get the idea and wonder if this can be done with a hall sensor and an Arduino similar to what Mr. Naudin is doing here http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE23en.htm?

Naudin is using an Arduino and a hall sensor to drive a simple pulse motor (http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE23en.htm), but may be one could also forget the rotor and place the hall sensor somewhere near the (drive) coil. Once a signal from the hall sensor is available one can program the timing for switching the coil (positive or negative feedback).

The opto coupler and the BUZ11 in Naudin's circuit could be replaced by a MOSFET. Although the opto coupler might be a prudent way of separating the high power coil switching from the Arduino.

If the aim is to get good spikes from coil switching, a rotor is indeed not necessary. Going further, the feed back (hall sensor or trigger coil) might not be necessary if using a microprocessor to switch the coil. The timing can be entirely done by the microprocessor.

Greetings, Conrad
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: synchro1 on April 13, 2014, 05:14:19 PM
@Tinselkoala,


You asked me to show you something. Review this 300,000 rpm magnet spinner of alphacentauro1111:


He's spinning a small tube magnet inside the core of a Tesla series bifilar coil. This rpm is way over any reed switch speed. The reed switch can act as a first stage booster untill the "Scalar Wave" takes over and powers the spinning magnet with it's internal trailing pole vortex amplitude. I use a spiral Tesla series bifilar, and got the same results with a bearing and thread spool Tesla series bifilar solenoid as well, as I described.


What alphacentauro1111 dosen't tell us , is that his power coil is not hooked up to any pulsed input source!


www.youtube.com/results?search_query=300000+rpm+magnet+spinne (http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=300000+rpm+magnet+spinne)
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: TinselKoala on April 13, 2014, 05:32:29 PM
Yeah, right. He also isn't confirming the RPM with any other method. I've "reviewed" this video before.

And I note that you have posted one of my "alt.snakeoil" videos with your own interpretation. You certainly aren't afraid of looking silly, I'll give you that much!
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: TinselKoala on April 13, 2014, 05:37:57 PM
I did not understand this rotor-less idea at the time TinselKoala showed it in this forum and on YouTube.

But now finally I get the idea and wonder if this can be done with a hall sensor and an Arduino similar to what Mr. Naudin is doing here http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE23en.htm? (http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE23en.htm?)

Naudin is using an Arduino and a hall sensor to drive a simple pulse motor (http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE23en.htm (http://jnaudin.free.fr/dlenz/DLE23en.htm)), but may be one could also forget the rotor and place the hall sensor somewhere near the (drive) coil. Once a signal from the hall sensor is available one can program the timing for switching the coil (positive or negative feedback).

The opto coupler and the BUZ11 in Naudin's circuit could be replaced by a MOSFET. Although the opto coupler might be a prudent way of separating the high power coil switching from the Arduino.

If the aim is to get good spikes from coil switching, a rotor is indeed not necessary. Going further, the feed back (hall sensor or trigger coil) might not be necessary if using a microprocessor to switch the coil. The timing can be entirely done by the microprocessor.

Greetings, Conrad

BUZ11 is a mosfet. The IRF3205 is cheaper and has similar if not better spec. Using an optocoupler to protect the Arduino is a good idea but even better, if driving a mosfet, is to use a gate current driver (since the Arduino only supplies 5 v at the digital outputs) like the MarkE gate boost circuit. However I've driven the mosfet directly with good results too, for example in my Arduino-controlled magnetic levitation apparatus.

Pretty soon you will be "devolving" all the way back to the simple switched mosfet/inductive load system that is the heart of the "Ainslie affair"! All you need for massive inductive spikes and ringing is a heavy inductance and a fast turn-off of the current through that inductance.
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: synchro1 on April 13, 2014, 05:42:33 PM

Here's a video from Tinselkoala,

This is a piece of crap:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-Xrwt-50AA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t-Xrwt-50AA)

Quote from youtube comment:

"I was inspired to build a little magnet spinner by synchro1's interesting work with a large powerful sphere magnet.

I don't have such a magnet, but I did have some little discs. So I mounted a disc magnet on an axle and support, very crude, and wound a couple of coils to exite it with. Assembled with hot glue and driven by the Interstate F43 function generator with a sine or a square wave, the little contraption spins at nearly 12000 RPM.

I've not started looking at output from the system yet. The coils are wired in series. I'll also be trying parallel wiring to see if there's a difference. I would like to use a self-triggering system so that the coil drive power can be triggered by the magnet's rotation directly, but the circuit I tried, posted by conradelectro, didn't work, so I'm still fiddling. Maybe I didn't have the right transistors".

What you fail to understand, is that alphacentauro1111 is not powering the tiny magnet tube spinner with pulse input!
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: TinselKoala on April 13, 2014, 05:52:22 PM
What you fail to understand is that he is not confirming his RPM with any other method.

If you think my work is "a piece of crap"..... then I strongly encourage you to STOP POSTING IT and post some work of your own.



Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: synchro1 on April 13, 2014, 09:12:23 PM
@Tinselkoala,


You don't get it!


Quote from Tinselkoala,


"And I note that you have posted one of my "alt.snakeoil" videos with your own interpretation. You certainly aren't afraid of looking silly, I'll give you that much"!


What you're telling us is that you can't explain your own results! You really don't know what you're doing!
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: synchro1 on April 13, 2014, 11:58:22 PM
The formula for the speed of the magnet wave is Pi/2.C! That's Pi or 3.14 divided by 2 times the speed of light, or 186,000 mies per second. That makes the magnet wave amplitude harmonic a factor of PI, or 3.14. Alphacentauro1111 is spinning at Pi to the seventh power over 2, or around 5000 hertz. The magnet wave, with it's poles at 180 degrees is powering the magnet spinner, not an input pulse. This causes alphacentauro1111's scope shot to appear unusual! The magnet wave travels at nearly fifty percent faster then the speed of light. There's no longer any input power entering alphacentauro1111's power coil. My reed switch simply shuts itself off when the magnet wave takes over and begins to accelerate the spinner. Awesome spectacle, but there's really nothing more to see in a video then alphacentauro1111 demonstrates. You can hear the spinner move up in speed at Barkhausen type jumps as it's accelerated by the magnet wave, as I've described, in alphacentauro1111's video. Alphacentauro1111's magnet spinner is an overunity phenomenon! Others have demonstrated this effect as well, like Piratetwinbeard and recently RWG. I was helped in understanding this effect immensely by Jerry Bayles, and his unified gravitational field theory, and especially Professor Konstantin Meyl and Eric Dollard.
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: synchro1 on April 14, 2014, 05:22:02 PM
Yeah, right. He also isn't confirming the RPM with any other method. I've "reviewed" this video before.

And I note that you have posted one of my "alt.snakeoil" videos with your own interpretation. You certainly aren't afraid of looking silly, I'll give you that much!




What's the inference here, that you manufactured another hoax? When are you gonna grow up? You're just part of somekind of bullshit twerp group, mythbusting the bifilar coil and magnet waves. You cruds outta get a life!
Title: Re: Reed switches, Hall sensors, trigger coils... discuss
Post by: TinselKoala on April 14, 2014, 05:49:34 PM
And you should get an education. While you are at it, you should learn not to make absurd claims without providing evidence. Embarrassed because you miss the point of the alt.snakeoil demonstrations? Don't feel bad. Just do your homework.

From February of 2013, over a year ago:
http://www.overunity.com/12295/self-running-generator/msg352020/#msg352020