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Author Topic: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)  (Read 1415379 times)

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #555 on: April 29, 2014, 10:42:49 PM »
Luc,

About the pitch change or lack of change when the light bulbs light up:

Note the light bulbs are like a load on a secondary coil on a toroidal core where the primary is the LC resonator.  So that means it's like the light bulbs are in parallel with the LC resonator.

One thing that the QEG team haven't looked at is the electrical power draw of the LC resonator when it is in resonance without the light bulb load.  I know that I have been harping on this issue and this may give it some perspective.

We know that there is a high-voltage medium-frequency sine wave observed when in resonance and no light bulb load.

We have lots of data to work with:  We know the peak-to-peak voltage.  We know the capacitance value.  We know the resonant frequency.  We know the wire resistance in the L part of the LC resonator.  All of these things are easily measurable.

You can then easily determine the RMS AC current in the LC resonator.  Once you have that, you know the power dissipation in the LC resonator.  I will leave the crunching to anyone that is interested as an exercise.

Let's say that you crunch the numbers and you determine that the unloaded LC resonator is dissipating 110 watts of power.  Don't be surprised it's possible it could be that high.

Now, you add the light bulb load.  All my numbers are approximations for illustrative purposes.  Let's say they are 60-watt bulbs only partially lit and all four draw 130 watts.   Let's say that under load the LC resonance voltage drops a lot.  You crunch the numbers and now the LC resonator only draws 25 watts.  That means that the power picked up by the LC resonator is now mostly going to the light bulb load.

So the electrical power dissipation is 110 watts no load and (130 + 25) = 155 watts with the light bulb load.

Let's say in both cases there is 25 watts worth of friction power also (bearings, air, etc.)

So the new totals are 135 watts no load and 180 watts with the light bulb load.

The DC motor by design will try to maintain a constant speed with the same DC voltage applied, it just draws more current when there is a tougher mechanical load.

The DC motor and the QEC rotor together store a lot of Joules of rotational energy when at the resonance speed.  That rotational inertia will resist a speed change when the mechanical load changes.

You add the two effects together, the motor self-governing on speed and the rotational inertia and it's very possible that the motor speed change is not perceptible over the first few seconds when the mechanical load changes from 135 watts to 180 watts.

This is the kind of stuff we should be seeing on the real QEG forum.  However, the technical posts are few and far between and you have mostly cheerleading and New Age navel gazing instead.

MileHigh 
« Last Edit: April 30, 2014, 12:50:06 AM by MileHigh »

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Offline MarkE

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #556 on: April 29, 2014, 11:02:17 PM »
@ibreal   I agree it would be nice to have some ?'s answered and measurements but I think they are trying to avoid killing their funding before they work out the kinks.   looking at the videos of rotaille you see a guy in grubby jeans, tee shirt and unshaved.   doesn't look like someone living high on donations.   looks like a guy busting his butt to get this all working right.   all I'm asking is for people to give it some time before bashing the sh*t out of them.
Steeltpu, I agree that they are trying to protect the funding.  JR seems to be on the up and up. 

HG is another matter.  HG routinely over represents what they have.  HG is out there drumming up money for these trips. Why spend time and money traveling the globe before there is a working unit of any kind?  Wouldn't JR be better off concentrating on trying to make a unit work?  No one can get a unit until and if JR ever succeeds.  And that is something that he may never do.  So who benefits from the current course of action?

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #557 on: April 29, 2014, 11:05:45 PM »
Steeltpu:

Quote
seems they should still be given the benefit of the doubt. let 'em show the proof without all the nasty accusations. not suggesting anyone run out and buy parts for this yet. just stop the negative remarkst. if anyone had a clue about the big post Cap-Z-ro made you might begin to understand why that's important. some of the mentally castrated individuals here who think we or they already know everything about everything should take a few lessons from history

Mentally castrated my ass.  Rubbing your tummy and humming to make a QEG work is being mentally castrated.   For all we know, the total "haul" after 200 cores are ordered and all the rest of the parts are purchased will be somewhere around a million dollars.   Hypothetically, what if the margin on the $3000 core is 70% and HopeGirl and James have a deal with the core manufacturer to split the profits.  Then HopeGirl and James walk away with $210,000.

With that kind of money on the table I refuse to give them the benefit of the doubt.  The "lessons from history" argument can easily be debunked.  The "flying machine" one is the prime example.

MileHigh

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #557 on: April 29, 2014, 11:05:45 PM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #558 on: April 29, 2014, 11:28:52 PM »
F_Brown,

There is a fundamental problem with your modeling of the spark gap.  You are modeling it as a noise source.  I am assuming that is an off-the-shelf component where you can set the parameters,  The fundamental problem is that your model is a power source, and it injects power into the system.  That is a component that allows you to simulate the thermal noise power that you have in most circuits (I assume.)

The spark gap is not a power source, it's the opposite.  Let's say that the air when it breaks down looks like a 70 ohm resistor.  This is a very simplified model, because we know that the voltage across the spark gap changes very little for changes in the current through the conducting plasma.

Therefore a simplified model for a spark gap would be a switch in series with a 70-ohm resistor.  It conducts when the switch is closed and dissipates power.   You have the spark gap modeled as a source of power.

MileHigh

Offline F_Brown

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #559 on: April 30, 2014, 01:04:34 AM »
Miles,

Where did you get the impression that I am modeling the spark gap in the CEG simulation?

Quite the contrary, I refrained from putting it in the sim.

On the other hand I did employ a sophisticated spark gap model for my simulation and  analysis of the Tesla Hair-Pin Circuit.

That is featured here:  http://youtu.be/N7gPeIVVy0A

You must be considering the noise source that I used to create a bit of noise in the primary circuit to be a spark gap. 

That's just a noise source to provide a few tens of micro-volts to give the parametric excitation something with which to start.  It is a power source, although a very small one.  I think it could be turned off one the oscillations startup. 

It is to just recreate the ambient noise in the circuit that are generated by ambient magnetic fields acting upon the magnetic core of the device.  Without any noise in the primary of the simulation, the oscillations fail to start up.

Anyway, at the moment I doubt the spark gap is going to do anything useful for the QEG.  Any RF noise that it generates will be damped out by the relative huge inductance, voltages, and currents in the primary tank circuit.

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #559 on: April 30, 2014, 01:04:34 AM »
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Offline Hope

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #560 on: April 30, 2014, 01:15:45 AM »
Another way I see the spark gap is a maker and collector of scalar waves.  Shouldn't the spark gap be reverse conical with a sharp mid point where the actual plasma arc burns and collapses the ambient air particles and gases. AND should that energy not be transmitter in a straight lines of force manor to the load  (generator)?

Offline e2matrix

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #561 on: April 30, 2014, 01:32:26 AM »
Another way I see the spark gap is a maker and collector of scalar waves.  Shouldn't the spark gap be reverse conical with a sharp mid point where the actual plasma arc burns and collapses the ambient air particles and gases. AND should that energy not be transmitter in a straight lines of force manor to the load  (generator)?


I agree and think spark gaps can be a way of tapping into an alternative yet unseen power source that mainstream science denies.   I'm not sure where you got the idea for the reverse cone setup but based on some other things I've read I think that is an EXCELLENT idea!

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #561 on: April 30, 2014, 01:32:26 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #562 on: April 30, 2014, 02:15:01 AM »
Another way I see the spark gap is a maker and collector of scalar waves.  Shouldn't the spark gap be reverse conical with a sharp mid point where the actual plasma arc burns and collapses the ambient air particles and gases. AND should that energy not be transmitter in a straight lines of force manor to the load  (generator)?
What verifiable evidence do you have that a spark gap either generates or collects scalar waves? 

Offline F_Brown

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #563 on: April 30, 2014, 02:18:17 AM »
I'm glad you're being gentle Mark.  We should be honored that Hope Girl is here among us.  If we mind our manners, she might continue to give us direct and timely updates on QEG developments.  Otherwise, we'll have to go looking for them.

By the way, somebody just mentioned to me that the frequency of the exciter circuits is set at the electron spin resonant frequency.

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #563 on: April 30, 2014, 02:18:17 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #564 on: April 30, 2014, 02:30:04 AM »
Somebody just mentioned to me that the frequency of the exciter circuits is set at the electron spin resonant frequency.

I'm glad you're being gentle Mark.  We should be honored that Hope Girl is here among us.  If we mind our manners, she might continue to give us timely updates on QEG developments directly.  Otherwise, we'll have to go looking for them.
~400Hz is more than seven orders of magnitude below ~10GHz of typical electron spin resonance.

Offline F_Brown

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #565 on: April 30, 2014, 02:55:22 AM »
Ha, I guess the person who told me that is wrong then.  He said the electron spin resonance was 1.3 MHz, which is the resonant frequency of the exciter circuits.

I made some more progress with my SPICE model.  I was able to make a model of the full primary circuit, and it generates over 10 kW of output into a resistive load taken directly from the primary. 

James has been mentioning lately that he is learning that the nature of this device is high voltage.  The simulation results I am getting seem to agree with that.

In this case in order to get 10 kW of output, about 53 kilo-volts peak needs to be developed across each half of the primary.  It's also interesting to note that in this case the primary coils together are dissipating about 78 watts.

There are a few things I find interesting about this:

1)  SPICE is able to model the parametric excitation, and it suggests that the claimed 10 kW of output are possible.

2) That output can be drawn off directly from the primaries, making secondary output optional.

3)  The wave form in the primary circuit is a sine wave with little harmonic distortion.

There is one that that still concerns me, and that is how much input power will it take to do this.

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #565 on: April 30, 2014, 02:55:22 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #566 on: April 30, 2014, 03:28:35 AM »
Ha, I guess the person who told me that is wrong then.  He said the electron spin resonance was 1.3 MHz, which is the resonant frequency of the exciter circuits.
One should check one's sources.  Electron spin resonance is in the GHz.  1.3MHz sounds like a high frequency for anything with the giant windings that are on this machine.  The L*C product for 1.3MHz is down near 1.4E-14.
Quote

I made some more progress with my SPICE model.  I was able to make a model of the full primary circuit, and it generates over 10 kW of output into a resistive load taken directly from the primary. 
Models can be very helpful, provided that the assumptions they are built around are reasonable.  Otherwise they are little more than computer aided hallucinations.  You task is to ensure that your model is representative of something real.
Quote

James has been mentioning lately that he is learning that the nature of this device is high voltage.  The simulation results I am getting seem to agree with that.
I watched the Taiwan session where he said that.  I was not encouraged by those remarks.  Power sources have characteristic impedance.  A high characteristic impedance in a power source means that the maximum power point will be at a relatively higher voltage than a similar capacity source that has a lower characteristic impedance.  Electrodynamic machines are readily scaled in both power and impedance by changing the flux density and the number of turns per unit length.
Quote

In this case in order to get 10 kW of output, about 56 kilo-volts peak needs to be developed across each half of the primary.
So they say.
Quote

There are a few things I find interesting about this:

1)  SPICE is able to model the parametric excitation, and it suggests that the claimed 10 kW of output are possible.
A SPICE model that has certain assumptions that may well be quite dubious gives a result that you want to see.  I highly recommend that you add a power probe to your noise source.
Quote

2) That output can be drawn off directly from the primaries, making secondary output optional.
Transformers operate symmetrically.  If there isn't a reason for an additional winding, then one should question why it exists.
Quote

3)  The wave form in the primary circuit is a sine wave with little harmonic distortion.
The purity of the sine wave is a function of the Q.  The higher the Q the less relative power output.
Quote

There is one that that still concerns me, and that is how much input power will it take to do this.
Adding a power probe to your LT SPICE model noise source will help you figure that out.

Offline F_Brown

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #567 on: April 30, 2014, 04:18:59 AM »
One should check one's sources.  Electron spin resonance is in the GHz.  1.3MHz sounds like a high frequency for anything with the giant windings that are on this machine.  The L*C product for 1.3MHz is down near 1.4E-14.Models can be very helpful, provided that the assumptions they are built around are reasonable.  Otherwise they are little more than computer aided hallucinations.  You task is to ensure that your model is representative of something real.I watched the Taiwan session where he said that.  I was not encouraged by those remarks.  Power sources have characteristic impedance.  A high characteristic impedance in a power source means that the maximum power point will be at a relatively higher voltage than a similar capacity source that has a lower characteristic impedance.  Electrodynamic machines are readily scaled in both power and impedance by changing the flux density and the number of turns per unit length.So they say.A SPICE model that has certain assumptions that may well be quite dubious gives a result that you want to see.  I highly recommend that you add a power probe to your noise source.Transformers operate symmetrically.  If there isn't a reason for an additional winding, then one should question why it exists.The purity of the sine wave is a function of the Q.  The higher the Q the less relative power output.Adding a power probe to your LT SPICE model noise source will help you figure that out.

How about a measure statement on the noise source?

That works out to about 14 milli-watts.

Offline pmgr

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #568 on: April 30, 2014, 05:54:21 AM »
I made some more progress with my SPICE model.

@F_Brown

Brief note, please take a look at how your calculate your average power. Make sure not to introduce the function abs() anywhere. The signs on I and V should take care of that (in that way you will be able to see real or reactive power) or use I*I*R for a resistor.

Some other remarks: your noise source is OK. It will not consume any power; it is noise, brownian motion. I have run similar parametric excitation simulations and find similar results. No magic here. Noise is what starts the primary. No spark gap needed.

However, what you do need to look at is the (counter) torque on the rotor. You can calculate that with FEMM. It is pretty big for 1amp of current. I have attached a graph. As stated in one of my earlier posts, the only way you can make the overall average force go to zero is by making sure the primary current is anti-symmetric as well and is exactly lined up in space/time with and has the same periodicity as the torque curve so the overall torque effect averages out to zero. This might proof hard to do in practice or maybe it is even impossible as load typically changes and will change the current curve, and thus the torque.

Either way, you should be able to prove if this thing can work or not.  :)

PmgR
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Offline Rfacts

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #569 on: April 30, 2014, 06:26:07 AM »
gotoluc (and others interested in QEG audio spectrum):

Appreciate you sharing the QEG Morocco video that you edited, I'm sharing some audio data from that video.  I fed the audio from your edited video to a PC based real time FFT audio spectrum analyzer.  This allowed me to capture and save the audio spectrum of the QEG as it was ramped up with the light bulbs off, when the light bulbs flashed, and when the light bulbs stayed on.  I left the SA settings at default and have attached the screen captures that I saved.  Most of the screen captures were taken with a span of 0-500 Hz (50 Hz per division) to provide more detail of the most significant part of the audio spectrum.  There are some screen captures with a span of 1KHz, 2KHz and 5KHz to show higher order harmonics. 

There is a frequency at 100 Hz that first appears 2 seconds into the video when the variac knob is first rotated to start the QEG and this frequency is present throughout the QEG run.  This 100 Hz frequency must be the hum from the full wave rectifier which is used to rectify the 50 Hz AC input to power the DC motor, so it serves as a good calibration check.  The light bulbs start to flash when ~400 Hz double peak frequencies appears, I happened to capture it at the 30 second mark in one of the repeating cycles that you edited to extend the flashing light bulb view time.  The ~400 Hz double peak frequencies only appears when the light bulbs flash on.  The light bulbs stay on when the 440 Hz frequency is present along with a 400 Hz frequency, at this point both of these frequencies are constantly displayed until the QEG is ramped down.  Most of the screens have a red marker at the 440 Hz frequency, you can see the frequency the marker is set to at the top of the captured screen.  You can also see an 800 Hz and 880 Hz harmonic frequency on the attached file with the 1KHz span.  Regardless of the QEG outcome it will be very interesting to find out how the QEG output is optimized.

It may be that the optimum output is achieved when the 400 Hz and the 440 Hz frequencies are tuned to match.  Is there enough data here to determine which is the mechanical and which is the electrical resonance frequency?  If mechanical resonance and the electrical resonance (or a harmonic frequency for parametric operation) need to be aligned a real time FFT audio spectrum analyzer like this one may prove to be a very useful tuning tool.  The screen capture with the 5KHz span that I've attached was saved to display the whole instrument control panel so you can see the software application was developed by Fatpigdog Industries.  I purchased the Excalibur 4.06 professional version, it has a very intuitive control panel with a very good set of features and the input audio can be from a file or a microphone - technical support is provided by email.  I'm not associated with them, I just think it's a good product, so for anyone interested in more info it can be found, downloaded, and a registration code purchased at this web site:

http://www.fatpigdog.com/SpectrumAnalyzer/Excalibur.html

To insure that we're using the same reference, this video is the source of the audio:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ALGxtNZ_2Y

Note: Attached files were converted from .bmp to .jpg to minimize file size.

 

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