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Author Topic: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)  (Read 1417353 times)

Offline F_Brown

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #435 on: April 23, 2014, 12:42:21 AM »
F_Brown,

Is it possible to simulate the attached circuit in your FEMM?

GL.

Since I am just learning FEMM at the moment, I lack the ability to integrate circuit analysis with magnetic analysis in FEMM or if that's even possible.  I could make a pure SPICE model of your device.  You know when using cut cores like that, the coils are usually put on the straight sections of the cores for two reasons:  One it's more difficult to put windings on the curved portion of the cores, and two having windings over the cut sections of the cores helps to reduce magnetic fringing there.

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Offline F_Brown

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #436 on: April 23, 2014, 12:58:17 AM »
F_Brown,


Nice job on the simulation,
Of course you had to scale the current and turns too.
can you say what your primary and secondary numbers are at 400hz?


Thanks.

I am only using primary windings at the moment because I still have yet to figure out how to attach a load to the secondary in FEMM.  The secondary would just be open ended and generate a voltage without any current flow. 

The primary I am using for this is 1550 turns of 20awg wire, which is 1/2 the turns of the original 3100.  I set the current at 0.9 amps and raised the frequency of operation to 1kHz to prevent saturating the core.  That is maintaining the flux density under 1.5 Tesla's for the M19 silicon steel laminations.  This type of core is usually only driven to 1.0 T to 1.5 T because the material saturates at around 2 T.  If the core saturates, it would allow large current surges to propagate though the windings and cause bad things to happen.  I set the gap between the stator and rotor at 0.025".

At the moment I am preparing an animation of the flux density during a full rotation of the armature.

Offline Groundloop

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #437 on: April 23, 2014, 12:58:39 AM »
Since I am just learning FEMM at the moment, I lack the ability to integrate circuit analysis with magnetic analysis in FEMM or if that's even possible.  I could make a pure SPICE model of your device.  You know when using cut cores like that, the coils are usually put on the straight sections of the cores for two reasons:  One it's more difficult to put windings on the curved portion of the cores, and two having windings over the cut sections of the cores helps to reduce magnetic fringing there.

F_Brown,

Thanks for taking time to consider a simulation of the circuit. I do not know if Spice has a built in model for
magnetic amplifiers. I have tested this method by using two toroid Ferrite cores. But, as you say, it is much
more easy to wind cores that are cut. Even if you have to wind the curved part. It is my theory that the QEG
is nothing more than a magnetic amplifier with a free running tuned LC tank circuit. So two cores with a mutual
winding will be a good test to see if there is any gain or not. The nice thing with two cores and a mutual winding
is that you can use that as a AC (or pulsed DC) on/off switch. When the center coil is open then there is no
transfer of energy to the right output coil. When you short the center coil then you have a output. And the best
part is that NO energy is used to short the center coil. So you can build a parametric inductance switch and you do
not have to spend a lot of energy such as in any motor driven rotor etc. It is my hope that people read a little
about magnetic amplifiers because I think there is a lot of useful information there.

Information about magnetic amplifiers can be found here: http://www.tuks.nl/pdf/Reference_Material/Magnetic_Amplifiers/

GL.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #437 on: April 23, 2014, 12:58:39 AM »
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Offline F_Brown

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #438 on: April 23, 2014, 01:09:00 AM »
I am familiar with magnetic amplifiers.  I could build a non-linear SPICE model that includes core saturation.  They run quite slowly though.

If James is operating the QEG as a mag-amp, then he's using the wrong core material, because silicon steel saturates quite slowly.  Mag-amps use a sharply saturating nickel-cobalt alloys to get cleaner off/on switching performance.

Offline F_Brown

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #439 on: April 23, 2014, 01:36:24 AM »
Luc,

In general terms, that posting by Peter Lindemann is basically correct in his reasoning and discussion of what's taking place from my perspective and from what I have learned over the past week.  However, where he stumbles and falls is in his claim of a COP of 1.2.  Notice he doesn't give any details about what that COP 1.2 even means.

Peter will never meet a challenge when somebody wants to get into an involved discussion with him about electronics and measurements and how a circuit actually words, etc, as far as I am aware.  People like Poynt99 and MarkE and PicoWatt could spin circles around Peter when it comes to electronics and measurements techniques and a whole gamut of hard core electronics and engineering stuff.  Peter is a lightweight that manages to create the illusion that he is very knowledgeable.

I am being somewhat harsh because I view Peter as a "pro" just like HopeGirl and company are crowd-funded pros that are deceiving people and acting unethically while creating the pretense of ethical behaviour.  Are they cons or are they clueless, I am not 100% sure.  But I myself have the common sense to get an expert opinion on something that I don't know much about.  I would be completely mortified to accept donations from people if I didn't know what I was doing.

So sorry to play the Bad Cop but Peter's COP 1.2 claims are junk.  If what he said was true his whole team would have received the Nobel Prize.

A magnetic core in an inductor or a transformer is a lossy mechanism for storing and then recovering magnetic energy by definition.  Even is it is 99.9% efficient at returning the energy that you put into it that is still lossy.  There is no such thing as a magnetic core returning more than you put into it.

Why is Peter claiming COP 1.2?  If you want to be really cynical you can speculate that he says that to keep the
"Peter Lindemann mystique/aura" going to keep those ticket sales high for the next Bedini/Lindemann/Aaron conference.  You play the tease to keep your audience stoked for the next paid live appearance.

Just keeping it real, I hope that you understand.

MileHigh

P.S.:  If any team does a faithful replication of this device the key to understanding it would be to construct a timing diagram that shows in front of your eyes how the thing works.  If there truly was over unity you would literally be able to show a "slice" in a waveform on your timing diagram where the free energy was manifesting itself.  The timing diagram and the associated schematic for any circuit and associated tests rules.  We will see if replication teams actually start reporting their results and if any of them show any timing diagrams.

How thoughtless of Lindermann's group to neglect to document their researcht.  The just forces any other interested party to have to repeat the same work just to get the answers they already found.

In spite that we now have Computational Electro-Magnetics software and laser cut laminations.  Maybe we can do better now than a COP of 1.2.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #439 on: April 23, 2014, 01:36:24 AM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #440 on: April 23, 2014, 01:38:42 AM »
I am familiar with magnetic amplifiers.  I could build a non-linear SPICE model that includes core saturation.  They run quite slowly though.

If James is operating the QEG as a mag-amp, then he's using the wrong core material, because silicon steel saturates quite slowly.  Mag-amps use a sharply saturating nickel-cobalt alloys to get cleaner off/on switching performance.

F_Brown,

Don't thinks so much about saturation, think more about parametric inductance switching. The attached drawing
is an attempt to explain what I'm talking about. Here you have to air core coils and a mutual coil between them.
Is it possible to simulate this setup? And do you think it is possible to switch AC or pulsed DC from the input coil
to the output coil by shorting the middle mutual coil? Maybe we need to bend the middle coil flat to the other two
to get a magnetic coupling between them? Just thinking out load here.....

GL.

Offline F_Brown

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #441 on: April 23, 2014, 01:51:49 AM »
In order to do that in spice, with standard linear inductor models, two middle windings would be necessary one one each core that were then put in series or left open, because as far as I know in spice joining two cores with one winding is impossible, although I see what you mean now.

Also I think the proper direction for the arrow on the second core would be the other way.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #441 on: April 23, 2014, 01:51:49 AM »
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Offline Groundloop

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #442 on: April 23, 2014, 02:04:47 AM »
In order to do that in spice, with standard linear inductor models, two middle windings would be necessary one one each core that were then put in series or left open, because as far as I know in spice joining two cores with one winding is impossible, although I see what you mean now.

Also I think the proper direction for the arrow on the second core would be the other way.

F_Brown,

In my drawing, no core at all. Just coils on plastic bobbins.
So no saturation and also higher frequencies possible.

OK, it is late night here now, time for bed, nice to talk to you.

GL.

Offline F_Brown

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #443 on: April 23, 2014, 02:12:19 AM »
F_Brown,

In my drawing, no core at all. Just coils on plastic bobbins.
So no saturation and also higher frequencies possible.

OK, it is late night here now, time for bed, nice to talk to you.

GL.

I see.  Coils are considered inductors in spice.  So in the case were all the inductors are air core coils, it would take four to get the job done in s spice model.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #443 on: April 23, 2014, 02:12:19 AM »
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Offline dieter

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #444 on: April 23, 2014, 03:51:05 AM »
How comes the naysayers have completely taken over this thread?


I don't know if the QEG works and what those people (3) are doing with the 100 grand fundrising cash, but one thing I know for sure:


There are many professional desinformation agents out there, making more than a 100k each one each year, only by badmouthing in the internet. Taxmoney, or from energy industrial complex, we pay it. They are getting emotional from mentioning the latest superiour weapons of the US, good patriots. Economical hitmen maybe, to secure "national security".


After investing so much in the control of oil, free energy would be rather unhandy, right?


Joe Average is my buddy, we are all Joe Average, worldwide, except for those pseudohumans.


I need an ignore button.


Nothing's for granted and time will tell what's the deal with the QEG. But this naysayer dominance is unbearable.
 

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #445 on: April 23, 2014, 04:41:40 AM »
Dieter,

If you are insulting people like me that exercise our critical thinking skills and call them "pseudohumans" then you have a problem.  This is not Oz, this is not Middle Earth, this is real life.  Things actually have to work in real life and people have to explain how they work.

Many people turn on their high-definition LED/LCD TV and they don't have the slightest clue how it works.  You could tell them a completely ridiculous explanation for how the hardware inside the TV works and they might believe you.

Some people turn on their high-definition LED/LCD TV and they have a reasonably good understanding of how the hardware and software inside the TV works.

Obviously, some people are at a disadvantage as compared other people when it comes to high-definition LED/LED TVs.  They might believe a crazy story about the TV.  A story crazy enough to make them look like fools without even realizing it.

So you think about that before you start labeling people as "pseudohumans."

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #445 on: April 23, 2014, 04:41:40 AM »
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Offline pmgr

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #446 on: April 23, 2014, 04:59:18 AM »
At the moment I am preparing an animation of the flux density during a full rotation of the armature.

@F_Brown and @shinz62

Glad to see you do some FEMM simulations as this is fundamental to understanding how the device functions. With respect to an animation, I did one a short while back and posted it at the energetic forum. I had to shrink the animation down in size (due to file size limitations), but it is a real size simulation in FEMM. I have attached it to this post. Let me know if you wish me to animate anything else in particular.

With respect to modeling circuits in FEMM, that is not possible. You will have to make a work around outside of FEMM for that. You can do it with SPICE or write some code yourself (which is what I did). In another post of energetic forum, I posted some circuit simulation results as well. It appears this is the more dedicated QEG thread for that topic, so I have attached my results below to keep the record complete. I am currently researching if I can simulate a stable steady state system from which I can calculate power out and also energy consumed by force on the rotor from the coils (I have already confirmed that this is NOT a Lenz less case where there is no force on the rotor by the coils). Under very special conditions, you can make Lenz go away; not really go away, but have it average out to zero over one rotation. However I haven't been able to proof this with my simulations.

Anyway, here are my initial findings:

1. The system is started up by parametric excitation of the inductance of the primary coils. Quite a few links have been posted in this thread about parametric excitation, so if you wish know what that is all about, read some of those papers (a lot of them were written in the 1930s).
 
 2. Starting up the system is no magic. It can all be explained with normal electrical equations. Current noise (e.g. a pA in my simulations) in the coils will grow to about a few 100mA in the primary coils and the voltages associated with that run in the kV range. In my simulations I have seen voltages oscillate with magnitudes of 1kV to 20kV depending on system parameters that you set (inductances, modulation index of inductances, coil resistances, etc.). The capacitance sets the electrical resonance frequency. Tuning the system (electrically and mechanically), it is very easy to get high voltage spikes that can burn out the isolation on the coils (which is what happened in Taiwan). From my simulations, I find typical stable voltages for the primary coils around 2kV-5kV range. The secondary coils run at a factor Nsec/Nprim = 350/3100 = 0.113 lower than that, so in the couple of 100 volt range.
 
 3. The humming that was witnessed is most likely caused by the enormous flux densities in the transformer core and due to the fact that the core is laminated. A normal transformer also hums. Vibrations occur when the rotor closes in to the core or moves away from it AND a flux is going from core through rotor back to core.
 
 4. Parametric excitation can occur at multiple frequencies. Typically, the inductance is modulated at a frequency of 2v (v= Greek nu) while the electrical resonance is set at f = n*v/2 with n an integer. It is easiest to find a stable region when the electrical resonance is set at the smallest n number (n=1). In this particular case, the rotor runs at frequency v and the inductance is modulated at 4v, so the electrical resonance should be preferably set at 2v. In this case it appears the resonance starts occurring at a rotor speed of 1500rpm (about 25 Hz), so inductance is modulated at 100Hz. James indicates the output frequency is around 400Hz, which would mean he set the electrical frequency at a multiplier of n=8.
 
 5. The second set of coils is basically a copy of the first set of coils and they perform a similar role. I hope to discuss this in more detail later.
 
 I have attached a few figures that show how the high voltage develops in the primary coils. You have to pick the parameters right to get a steady state solution. It is very easy for the voltage to go out of bound (which would fry the coils due to high voltage arcing).
 
 The image QEG_StartUp.jpg shows how the resonance starts from 1pA of noise in the primary coils.
 
 The image QEG_Transient.jpg shows the transient behavior from startup to steady state. You can see the voltage initially overshoot to over 4kV, then settle down to about 2.8kV.
 
 The image QEG_SteadyState.jpg show the steady state in detail: as explained before the inductance is modulated at 4v (4x per rotation). The electrical resonance frequency is tuned to 2v with the capacitance. Both the voltage and current oscillate at 2v (50Hz). Note that the capacitance can be choosen so as to resonate at a higher harmonic (e.g. in James' case n=8).
 
 But now comes the questionable part of all of the above.
 
 The problem with parametric excitation is that it is very hard to get any kind of power out of the system without destroying the resonance condition. The energy in the primary system runs about a 2-3 joules. Energy for each of the elements is 1/2L*i*i for the coils, 1/2C*V*V for the capacitor and power loss is R*i*i in the coil resistance. All these translate to about 125W total in the coil and capacitor together and about 3W loss in the coil resistance.
 
 So the question now remains if it is possible to extract energy from this parametric system without destroying the resonance...
 
 Enjoy! :)   PmgR
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Offline chrisC

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #447 on: April 23, 2014, 05:14:11 AM »
How comes the naysayers have completely taken over this thread?


.. But this naysayer dominance is unbearable.

Well, my parents always taught me to shut my mouth, watch and learn and only write only when necessary and when it makes a difference in relaying truth. There are some people here with mile high egos who cannot stop talking, always trying so very hard to try impress others with their perceived 'knowledge' . Truth is, it's almost always the opposite. But then, this is a public forum, anyone who can type can participate. Not a lot of skill required, actually


Offline MileHigh

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #448 on: April 23, 2014, 05:22:43 AM »
Well, my parents always taught me to shut my mouth, watch and learn and only write only when necessary and when it makes a difference in relaying truth. There are some people here with mile high egos who cannot stop talking, always trying so very hard to try impress others with their perceived 'knowledge' . Truth is, it's almost always the opposite. But then, this is a public forum, anyone who can type can participate. Not a lot of skill required, actually

Well, ChrisC, I guess that you did not learn from your parents at all.  If they are still with us on this Earth they would be pained to see this type of behaviour from you.

MileHigh

Offline MarkE

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Re: Quantum Energy Generator (QEG) Open Sourced (by HopeGirl)
« Reply #449 on: April 23, 2014, 05:56:35 AM »
How comes the naysayers have completely taken over this thread?


I don't know if the QEG works and what those people (3) are doing with the 100 grand fundrising cash, but one thing I know for sure:


There are many professional desinformation agents out there, making more than a 100k each one each year, only by badmouthing in the internet. Taxmoney, or from energy industrial complex, we pay it. They are getting emotional from mentioning the latest superiour weapons of the US, good patriots. Economical hitmen maybe, to secure "national security".


After investing so much in the control of oil, free energy would be rather unhandy, right?


Joe Average is my buddy, we are all Joe Average, worldwide, except for those pseudohumans.


I need an ignore button.


Nothing's for granted and time will tell what's the deal with the QEG. But this naysayer dominance is unbearable.
Have the people promoting the QEG shown any strong evidence that it can work, or that it does?  If the answer is yes, then skeptics have little room to argue.  If the answer is no, then I think the problem is with promoters long on promises and short on supporting facts.

 

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