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Author Topic: Orthogonal Force Motor - Check it out!  (Read 7556 times)

Offline Blainiac

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Orthogonal Force Motor - Check it out!
« on: March 21, 2014, 04:46:09 AM »
After saving some money to build, I will be testing a device that is based on the fanner principle presented in earlier threads.  This principle is mixed with the cogless alternator idea, which was also presented in earlier threads.  Both of these ideas were presented by Butch LaFonte at an earlier time (his newer ideas are awesome (check them out!), but I love the fanner's simplicity).


The first part of the device works by a force acting on plates orthogonally to the magnetic field that permeates them.  Since the field is in the same direction, the plates separate in the same fashion as iron particles sprinkled on paper above a magnet.  This works great, but by introducing the cogless alternator idea, it makes this work so much better.  By having a diametrically magnetized ring magnet rotate inside a toroid, the magnet has no cogging, as any angle looks the same to the magnet, so there is no change.  By diverting the flux in the toroid, there is no torque on the ring magnet.


If the ring magnet is in one position, the flux wants to stay inside the toroid, and in another, the flux wants to go through the plates.  All of this happens with no torquing on the ring magnet, which makes the fanner concept easier to play with.


Here is the FEMM simulation, which is a 'flattened' version of the design due to 3D designs not being handled well.  It's the same thing as the other animation.


The design is basically two diametrically magnetized ring magnets on one shaft, with one 180 degrees rotated from the other.  There is a tiny airgap between the magnets and the soft ferrite toroids (to eliminate eddy current damping), which have been cut to divert flux correctly.  The plates can be iron.


With this design, the 'power stroke' happens twice per revolution, so I feel a one way bearing with a linear toothed rod and a toothed gear attached to the bearing would do well to rotate the magnetic assembly (or a 2:1 gear?).  One unit alone would ONLY rotate the shaft maybe part of the way, more of them on the shaft (maybe 6 units) would be required to have a constant torque on the shaft to keep it rotating.


The toroids are cut along the top and bottom to dissuade the flux from going back to the other side of the toroid and persuade it to go through the plates instead during that position.


For the simulation, I got a net torque (via weighted stress tensor) of 0.000531 N/m, and the force (via weighted stress tensor) was up to 11 N (22 N for both sides of plates) in the Y direction for the plates.


Any ideas/thoughts/suggestions (I would especially like the input of Low-Q, as he has a very objective/logical view on these devices)?  Does anyone see any problems with the design?  I have ordered some large ring magnets to start testing.  The only issues I might see are with the permeability of the ferrite messing things up, or the force of the plates being too small still to do any real work.  Sorry for the animated MS Paint art, it took forever to draw!  If anything at all, I'll provide details if it fails.  :)  The purpose of this device is to utilize the 90 degree force of the plates, and to make them 'invisible' to the ring magnets as they happily rotate around, not seeing anything other than the toroid.


Here's a link to the animated gif, it wouldn't work below.
http://oi57.tinypic.com/105y52t.jpg

THE RING MAGNETS BELOW ARE 180 DEGREES APART, SO THE 'N' OF ONE IS AT THE SAME POSITION AS THE 'S' OF THE OTHER.

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Offline Blainiac

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Re: Orthogonal Force Concept Device
« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2014, 04:52:23 AM »
Here is the FEMM animation, for some reason it's not animating on the site (too large perhaps?)


http://oi57.tinypic.com/105y52t.jpg

Offline Blainiac

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Re: Orthogonal Force Motor - Check it out!
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2014, 07:36:13 AM »
Here's a better animation showing multiple units on one shaft.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Orthogonal Force Motor - Check it out!
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2014, 07:36:13 AM »
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Offline Blainiac

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Re: Orthogonal Force Motor - Check it out!
« Reply #3 on: April 11, 2014, 10:12:27 PM »
My magnets came in from K&J Magnetics!  They're extremely strong, stronger than I thought they would be.  They are 1" OD x 1/4" ID x 1" Width (25.4mm OD x 6.35mm ID x 25.4mm Width) each, diametrically magnetized neodymium magnets.  I also ordered 4 large soft ferrite toroids for the main part of the motor, they are 2.52" OD x 1.58" ID x 0.35" Width (64mm OD x 40mm ID x 9mm Width).

The magnets still have a large air gap (0.29" (7.37mm)) gap, but that was the closest I could find on the internet as far as magnets and toroids go.  We'll see how that goes.  :)  I decided on not making my own cores, just based on my very limited funds for experimenting, and thought it would be much better to just buy some.

I couldn't find anything else that was close to that size for soft ferrite toroids, so I have to use two per magnet to get close to the width required to cover each magnet.  I've never worked with soft ferrite or anything, but I needed something that wouldn't produce a cogging effect through eddy currents within the material.  They are susceptible to these magnets for sure.  :)


The ferrite will be cut to shape with a diamond water saw (used for ceramic tiles) soon, hopefully I don't break the toroids.  They need to be cut on the OUTSIDE so that the flux 'chooses' to go through the plates at a certain angle, but I want the magnet to see the ferrite core as the same throughout the cycle.

Since these were expensive as is, I am only using these to see if A) the principle works, and they plates can rotate the shaft with the magnets at least 1/5 of a rotation. B) see if there is any cogging when the outside of ferrite is cut. C) see if any changes to the plates affect the rotation of the shaft.

Here are some pictures for now...  The final design should be done in about a month.  I'll keep this updated when I can.  Any posts/comments/critiques/suggestions are very welcome.

Offline Blainiac

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Re: Orthogonal Force Motor - Check it out!
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2014, 10:27:19 PM »
The bottom animation is the same as the link in my first post, but small enough to animate correctly...  There is no torque (measured at each part of rotation), and there is a large N force on the plates in the Y direction.




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Re: Orthogonal Force Motor - Check it out!
« Reply #4 on: April 11, 2014, 10:27:19 PM »
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Offline mscoffman

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Re: Orthogonal Force Motor - Check it out!
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2014, 01:33:07 AM »
Blaniac;

Looks great. Think of this at the pivot point of a pendulum, plus, Think of this as the upper accuator of a Vgate motor.

:S:MarkSCoffman

Offline Blainiac

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Re: Orthogonal Force Motor - Check it out!
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2014, 02:26:55 AM »
Thanks for the reply Mscoffman!  I really think this test will work out great.  I cut the toroids without too much of a problem with the diamond studded water saw, just need to build it this weekend.  :)  Will update soon!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Orthogonal Force Motor - Check it out!
« Reply #6 on: April 15, 2014, 02:26:55 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Blainiac

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Re: Orthogonal Force Motor - Check it out!
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2014, 04:48:27 PM »
Toroids are all cut (all are similar to this one).  Testing will be done tonight to see if there is any plate expansion with ferrite used as the core switch.  Here's my bad cutting job (should still do the trick, if the air gap size isn't an issue)!  There will be a huge update very soon!


 ;D


The reason it's cut like that is to allow flux to flow through the plates (not pictured yet) when the magnets are in one direction, and trough the ferrite in another direction.



Offline mscoffman

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Re: Orthogonal Force Motor - Check it out!
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2014, 05:04:59 PM »

Keeping our fingers crossed...Good Luck.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Orthogonal Force Motor - Check it out!
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2014, 05:04:59 PM »
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Offline Blainiac

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Re: Orthogonal Force Motor - Check it out!
« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2014, 04:58:08 AM »
Okay, well there's good news and bad news...  The good news is that the plates do separate when the magnets are at 90/270 degrees, and don't separate when the magnets are pointed at 0/180 degrees.  The bad news is that the entire setup kept breaking itself when trying to put the shaft through the holes on the stator, because the magnets were WAY too strong, so I couldn't see if I could freely rotate the shaft with the design (I didn't notice any cogging, but it was hard to tell).

I'll try to rebuild with weaker magnets, so the super glued setup won't break before testing in its entirety.  So, the concept seems to work, the ferrite works great, and the cuts at the top and bottom do seem to change the flux path of the magnets in different parts of its rotation.  The big question is... Is the magnet able to freely spin?  If so, it's definitely a candidate for a self-runner.


I'll try to post some pictures tonight!

 

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