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Author Topic: Conventional current flow VS Electron current flow  (Read 40114 times)

Dave45

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Conventional current flow VS Electron current flow
« on: March 14, 2014, 01:15:28 PM »
I think this needs to be discussed as it leads to deception in circuit analysis at least where an inductor is concerned.
Lets look at a simple circuit from both views
The conventional view sees current flowing from pos to neg as shown in the first pic,  it would appear that the current flows through the inductor then when the current is shut off the spike continues on.
This would seem as though the inductor is resisting change in current flow and the spike is an effort of the inductor to resist that change.
It would look like femf, you see no polarity change in the spike.

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Dave45

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Re: Conventional current flow VS Electron current flow
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2014, 01:26:41 PM »
Now lets Look at electron flow as it should be, from neg to pos
Now you can see that the spike that looked like femf in the convention view is actually bemf and it runs through the diode in the opposite direction as the current flow.
This backward direction through the diode is an indicator of the polarity of the backspike, the backspike has a pos polarity.

Dave45

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Re: Conventional current flow VS Electron current flow
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2014, 01:53:26 PM »
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Offline allcanadian

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Re: Conventional current flow VS Electron current flow
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2014, 05:29:33 AM »
@Dave45
 
I have used electron flow notation exclusively for over 10 years and can say that everything makes much more sense and personally I find conventional current flow notation completely absurd.
 
For instance if a conventional current is said to flow from positive to negative and the only charges which can actually move in the conductor are the free electrons which have a negative charge then that would mean the negative electrons must be "flowing" to the negative terminal which is a problem. You see like charges repel so why would the negative electrons be flowing to the negative terminal which repels them from the positive terminal which is attracting them?.
 
Let's do a thought experiment, I attach a lightbulb to a battery and conventional current flow notation say's electrons flow from positive to negative. First the negative terminal has an abundance of electrons and the positive terminal an equal and opposite lack of electrons. So why are the electrons flowing from the positive terminal with less electrons attracting the free electrons to a negative terminal with an abundance of electrons repelling the free electrons?. Lol, it is without a doubt the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard of and contradicts damn near every know law of science.
 
The fact that this is still being debated in this day and age is a little disturbing in my opinion.
 
AC

Offline forest

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Re: Conventional current flow VS Electron current flow
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2014, 04:11:24 PM »
Now lets Look at electron flow as it should be, from neg to pos
Now you can see that the spike that looked like femf in the convention view is actually bemf and it runs through the diode in the opposite direction as the current flow.
This backward direction through the diode is an indicator of the polarity of the backspike, the backspike has a pos polarity.


Please explain what is the reason for spike ? I see the problem here : first electrons flow when switch is closed through the diode, toward positive terminal. I imagine they are slowed down and partially stuck inside coils windings and when switch is off they cannot move back via diode , so they should move forward to the positive terminal causing voltage rise ? Hmm...looks like things are not as simple as seen on picture. I thing electrons interact with own magnetic field and this collapsing magnetic field is allowing them to move faster on "switch off" stage. Faster move means current rise and voltage rise is the following result.
What do you think ?

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Re: Conventional current flow VS Electron current flow
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2014, 04:11:24 PM »
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Dave45

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Re: Conventional current flow VS Electron current flow
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2014, 05:49:02 PM »
If you only use one coil you can see whats happening, as current moves through the coil a magnetic field is formed, when the current stops the magnetic field collapses back into the coil, this collapsing magnetic field causes the backspike (bemf)
What is important to notice is the polarity of the bemf, the diode gives an indication of the polarity.
The bemf runs through the diode in an opposite direction as the applied neg current, this indicates that the polarity of the bemf is pos.
This is important and if you are looking at a circuit in the conventional view you dont see this, it looks as though the current just continues on. Which is wrong.



Dave45

  • Guest
Re: Conventional current flow VS Electron current flow
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2014, 06:11:14 PM »
Why is this important
We have to ask ourselves if a coil pulsed with a neg polarity gives a pos return will a coil pulsed with a pos polarity give us a neg return.
And if it does what are the implications.


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Re: Conventional current flow VS Electron current flow
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2014, 06:11:14 PM »
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Dave45

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Re: Conventional current flow VS Electron current flow
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2014, 06:23:36 PM »
Study up on ionization, ion clouds
Air purifier's
Static eliminators to see what you dont want to do.
Electrostatics
There are two charges and they both operate in a circuit.
Real eye openers
Breaking no laws just understanding
opposites attract

Like the guy from Russia said separate and collect, well he said compare and collect but I think he meant separate and collect, language barrier.

Dave45

  • Guest
Re: Conventional current flow VS Electron current flow
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2014, 06:27:34 PM »
Ionization

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Conventional current flow VS Electron current flow
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2014, 06:27:34 PM »
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Offline forest

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Re: Conventional current flow VS Electron current flow
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2014, 06:32:22 PM »
So...beside electrons there is also bemf running, right ?

Dave45

  • Guest
Re: Conventional current flow VS Electron current flow
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2014, 06:44:14 PM »
So...beside electrons there is also bemf running, right ?
Yes
If the circuit is configured right like Akula's you will have pos and neg bemf one complimenting the other.
Pos bemf from the neg pulsed coil
Neg bemf from the pos pulsed coil

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Re: Conventional current flow VS Electron current flow
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2014, 06:44:14 PM »
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Dave45

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Re: Conventional current flow VS Electron current flow
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2014, 06:49:06 PM »
A diode does more than just let electrons through one way


Offline forest

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Re: Conventional current flow VS Electron current flow
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2014, 09:40:45 AM »
Thank You Loner


That was exactly what I wanted to ask. If electrons stuck behind the diode what is moving after switch shut off ? The answer : the real FORCE behind the scene. Or ...does somebody have a better explanation , based solely on electrons flow theory ?

Dave45

  • Guest
Re: Conventional current flow VS Electron current flow
« Reply #13 on: March 16, 2014, 11:37:43 AM »
I think its very simple really it all boils down to pos and neg charges and their attraction to each other.

If you build an ionizer circuit the electrodes will actually pull apart the ether, the tension caused by the opposite polarity's pull electrons and protons apart. When this happens we have two charges not one, if these electrodes are in close proximity the charges will join back up and cancel each other but if not in close proximity they build pos and neg ion clouds.
 
Ok so Iv built my ionizer and have made my two ion clouds, I have the ether separated now how do I collect it?
I put a single coil transformer/choke on each electrode, I want to collect both charges.
 
The choke that is placed on the neg electrode I pulse neg, the bemf from this choke will be pos just like the ion cloud around it.
The choke that is placed on the pos electrode I pulse pos, the bemf from this choke will be neg just like the ion cloud around it.

If we want to pull energy from the ether we have to split it first, in its natural state the two charge are combined and neutral, but when pulled apart are energetic.

Separate and Collect.

 

Dave45

  • Guest
Re: Conventional current flow VS Electron current flow
« Reply #14 on: March 16, 2014, 11:55:57 AM »
So how do we pulse a coil with pos energy
If you use AC its a little easier because one leg is a pos pulse and one leg is a neg pulse.

If using DC its a little more complicated you have to take the bemf from the neg pulsed coil and use it to pulse another coil, this is your pos pulse using DC.

But you have to collect both charges.

 

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