# Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

## Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: e2matrix on March 10, 2014, 07:06:29 PM

Title: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: e2matrix on March 10, 2014, 07:06:29 PM
From "Correcting the First Law of Dynamics" by Kanarev Ph.M. at Russian University of Kubagro : Conclusion of his paper "266 years for an establishment of transformation of force of the inertia interfering accelerated movement of a body, by virtue of inertia driving this body were required at its transition to uniform movement. The reason of so long establishment of this fact - an inaccuracy of the first law of classical dynamics. "
In his paper he shows a motor generator setup which has an input of 344 Watts with an output of 6131 Watts.   Other figures included in the paper with detailed mathematical analysis and where things went wrong.   I haven't gone through it thoroughly but it seems centrifugal forces and inertia play big into the picture.   It seems this paper explains why some people are apparently seeing more power out than input with motor generators and flywheels.   If anyone can refute what is in this paper have at it....
Attached below as found on the OUResearch web site from member NerzhDishual:
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: lancaIV on March 11, 2014, 04:07:21 PM
Prof Kanarevs reference :Edvid Livenich inertial drive

http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/WO2009102232 (http://patentscope.wipo.int/search/en/WO2009102232)
http://dlinevitch.narod.ru/Eng/Vvedenie.htm (http://dlinevitch.narod.ru/Eng/Vvedenie.htm)

Sincerely
OCWL

Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: e2matrix on March 11, 2014, 06:17:36 PM
Thanks lancaIV for the additional articles and documents on Kanarev.   That reminded me that I already had some of his info saved on my computer and found now a number of pages on him at rexresearch.com.   There are also some good video's of one of his self runners.   Here's one page on his self running pulse motor from rexresearch:  http://www.rexresearch.com/kanarev2/kanarevpulsemtr.htm

There are a number of other pages there on his work and patents too.
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: lancaIV on March 11, 2014, 07:32:19 PM
I like this Generator/motor- work process description,inventor Chitta Mukherjee:

F = BLI  : free generator-stator !         F '= 2B x L x 1 = LI   :fixed motor-stator !

Sincerely
OCWL

p.s.:
strong field force material will come to market by the year +/- 2023,
Iron Nitrogen magnets Fe16N2
exspect: to ferrit magnet prices
(10US\$/Kg bulk price compared with actual 60 US\$/Kg for NdFeB)
and with double-Neodym magnet field force

http://blog.case.edu/think/2013/10/07/making_a_better_cheaper_greenenergy_magnet
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: lancaIV on March 12, 2014, 05:20:54 PM

Kanarev_Correcting_The_First_Law_Of_Dynamics.pdf (http://www.overunity.com/14390/motor-generators-free-energy-an-explanation/dlattach/attach/134713/)[/font][/size]
the page 4,Fig. 4 Edvid Linevich concept :

http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?FT=D&date=20101020&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=EP&NR=2241785A1&KC=A1&ND=4 (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/originalDocument?FT=D&date=20101020&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP&CC=EP&NR=2241785A1&KC=A1&ND=4)

Sincerely
OCWL
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: woopy on March 14, 2014, 11:34:54 PM
Hi all

This is my experiment on this subject   very interesting indeed

http://youtu.be/kSG1nroy_WM

Laurent
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: gyulasun on March 15, 2014, 12:44:35 AM
Hi Laurent,

Promising test indeed, thanks for showing it.

For those interested, here is the Kanarev paper on this setup, with measurements: http://www.worldnpa.org/pdf/abstracts/abstracts_4427.pdf (http://www.worldnpa.org/pdf/abstracts/abstracts_4427.pdf)

( The paper seems to be very much the same, with some more drawings, what e2matrix uploaded in the first post of this thread I just noticed it.)

PS: Laurent, I sent you a Personal Message at energetic forum yesterday, no need for any hurry, just to inform you.

Regards, Gyula
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: gotoluc on March 15, 2014, 06:28:13 AM
Hi all

This is my experiment on this subject   very interesting indeed

http://youtu.be/kSG1nroy_WM (http://youtu.be/kSG1nroy_WM)

Laurent

Very nice build and demonstration Laurent.

Looking forward to your generator test ;)

Thank you for sharing

Luc
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: e2matrix on March 15, 2014, 08:52:41 PM
Nice work Laurent!   Thanks for your demo and interest in this.   It helps with some things I was unclear about.   Thanks also to Gyula and Luc for expressing interest here as it leads me to believe me this is important and valid research when I see either of you  ;)    I wish Kanarev was able to release more of his info.   It seems he has some things he is not able to talk about regarding free energy (suppression ?).
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: lancaIV on March 16, 2014, 06:58:15 PM

The inertia concept patent applicant : http://www.firmenabc.at/permotors-gmbh_JtCz (http://www.firmenabc.at/permotors-gmbh_JtCz)

part of this company www.arestov.de (http://www.arestov.de)   ( reactive circuit )

Sincerely
OCWL
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: lancaIV on March 16, 2014, 07:33:45 PM
From                      ic-motor/e-generator efficiency optimizing

ic-motor+gear/transmission/differential and e-motor/differential comparison

the essential from the link above :

The output torque  at the shaft 25 minute at 6000 rpm, is the same as the output torque of the internal moving device, inert wheel.

This device has four engines 500 wats or wats in 2000, with electronic management is likely the same performance power and torque a motor

heat 50 hp, while ensuring ancillary services including heating and preheating véhicule.5 The average consumption is about IOOO wats hour.

ergo:
2000 Watt (4X 500W) motors  instead 50 hp internal combustion engine
( austinev.org link: 15 hp ic-engine ~ 1 KW electrical  ???  )

this explains the Livenich-principle

optimizing the e-motor : reactive circuit   like Dr.Imris

finally:

the best Nm/KW performance  for the ideal  e-motor/e-generator-coupling

and realizing,that has been done.

Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: woopy on March 16, 2014, 11:23:20 PM
Hi all

Yes this is very interesting to play with this device, running in my hands , and i try to understand and to get the feeling of the beast.

I have read some of Kanerev theory but the translation from russian to english is not very easy to understand.

Kanarev, in his papers,  is clearly contradicting the "old "  Newton's law, by adding the fact that the "inertial " force stays arround an object travelling in a a stable path.

And if i have correctly understood the theory , this inertial force could  be reused in the deceleration ???

Has somebody already checked the work of Kanarev ?

thank's

Laurent
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: lancaIV on March 17, 2014, 11:37:43 AM
Here,a google-translated- 1972-publication -pdf from a german inventor ,Otto Stein :

original paperbook-copy : http://wolfganghann.fruchtesser.de/zukunft.pdf (http://wolfganghann.fruchtesser.de/zukunft.pdf)

Sincerely
OCWL

1.from the #10 Walge-publication:
However, the possibility of the new know-how is also for use so-called
Wind power, or hydro power generation facilities.

2.There is a Linevich-figure,where instead an electric motor a windrotor is coupled to the gear mechanism :
http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/mosaics?CC=DE&NR=102012002418A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=20130814&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP (http://worldwide.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/mosaics?CC=DE&NR=102012002418A1&KC=A1&FT=D&ND=3&date=20130814&DB=EPODOC&locale=en_EP)

3.The Biot-Savart accelerating force formula:

The invention is based on the realization that there is an analogy between electrical engineering and fluid mechanics.
This is that an electromagnetic field around an arbitrarily curved wire-like head and a flow field around a arbitrarily shaped vortex thread are described by the same law, the Biot-Savart law.
The variables "increase in magnetic field strength" and "speed increase" correspond to one another.
Since magnetic field strength can be concentrated by by winding a current-carrying conductor in a coil, you can achieve a speed increase in the flow technology by winding a vortex filament into a coil.

5.Squirl/Whirl-Wind chamber technolgy development and exploration trial :
Olaf + Juergen Schatz ("windhamster" : a flop ! a desaster !)

title ?

It is all about thermo= motion dynamics, included compression and expansion
chamber~turbine~ transformer/concentrator/gear : turbo-netic
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_tube (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_tube)

Biot-Savart Formula coil ( gyula :Klinsing !) = Tesla coil ?
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on March 17, 2014, 09:51:30 PM
Hi Laurent,

Really nice build. Thanks for sharing.

Here are some ideas to maybe capture the oscillation set-up by the spinning weights. Have a plate with arms that extend outwards attached to the bottom where you have the pulley then either place magnets with fixed coils or lever arms to crank a DC motor shaft back and forth.

Now there is one part I do not understand is neutralizing the negative impulses. He says he adds a "outrun muff" I don't know what this means after looking all over the net. Maybe it is a one way bearing like you use. If that is so then instead of an oscillating plate mount it to a one way bearing through the central shaft. As the shaft twists the outer plate will start spinning due to the force of the positive impulse in one direction and will coast/slip on negative impulses, picking up speed on each impulse. This wouldn't really change the magnet arrangement but would void the DC arm driven version.

If the gears diameters with the weight were increased this would set-up a really strong oscillation. This looks like something to test further.

I attached some pictures to make the ideas clearer, maybe inspire someone with a different idea.
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: woopy on March 18, 2014, 12:36:35 AM
Hi DTB

Thank's for your generator proposal, but i think that Linevitch system is based totally on the transformation of the oscillation in a unidirectional movement due to the one way bearing.

So it appears to me that if you try to use the oscillation in direct, you will have no gain and only losses.

As i show on my video, if the system is hanging on the wires , there is a lot of oscillations, and absolutely no torque at all. Because the complete system is in equilibrium.

So you need to capture the inertial energy by an imbalance  mean. And this mean is the one way bearing (and it must be of very good quality in order to stop and go at the very smallest movement of the shaft).

The better the one way bearing , the better the efficiency of the system.

But i may be wrong

Just for tonight

Good luck at all

Laurent
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: gotoluc on March 18, 2014, 05:00:43 PM
Hi Laurent,

one question, what happens when you add more load (finger) on the one way bearing rotor, does the motor power supply input change?

Merci

Luc
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: ARMCORTEX on March 18, 2014, 06:09:09 PM
thx you laurent for informing me about this interresting mechanical concept. If those numbers are true from linevich this is major concept

AC motor single phase ? It would be great to see if the motion can sometimes go into a resonance with a specific drive or motion frequency.
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: DreamThinkBuild on March 18, 2014, 07:36:47 PM
Hi Laurent,

I built a quick test model with Lego and now can see how weak the oscillation is. At a certain speed it will sit in place and oscillate. I see what you mean also by capturing the imbalance is going to need good bearings or somehow come up with a ratchet system. I don't have any one way bearings so I'll play with it some more see if there is an alternative to taking the power off.
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: gotoluc on March 18, 2014, 09:50:48 PM
Related video

Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: woopy on March 19, 2014, 12:02:53 AM
Yes DTB

Very nice build, to get the feeling of the beast , bravo.

Hi Luc

thank's  for the video.

And for now, i am playing with all i have to disposal to get more feeling on the device.

As i sayd in my previous post , it seems that a very good "one way " bearing is a must. Than i also think that the  transmission mean (the belt )  must be very Unelastic.

And sofar, depending of the  elasticity of the belt and friction lost , or the gear ratio  and rotating speed,  i have so different results that i am not able to   answer your question so easily.

I have to experiment  further, because the Kanarev and Linevitch technicals infos are very small at this point, and as i sayd the translation from russian to english are also very poor.

So as always a hard way

But good luck at all

laurent

Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: TinselKoala on March 19, 2014, 12:15:51 AM
You can find small inexpensive but reliable one-way bearings at your local hobbyshop in the RC Helicopter spare parts department.

For example:
http://www.helipal.com/hs1229-metal-one-way-bearing.html?gclid=COKWgKebnb0CFcx9OgodQmcAyw
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: gotoluc on March 19, 2014, 02:10:39 AM
i also think that the  transmission mean (the belt )  must be very Unelastic.

laurent

I don't see the need for a belt as it goes back and forth.  Why not have a connecting rod between both, then all push pull will be equal.

Luc
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: woopy on March 20, 2014, 12:30:20 AM
Hi Luc

yes you are right, but my aim in this first approach of the Linevich system is to check the eventuality  of a Newton's law inacuracy concerning  the rotating movement.

So i need a belt , and if the equilibrium of the system is not matched, the belt begin to move along the path and the prime mover shaking system begin to counter rotate.  indicating no newtons violation.

But if the belt stays  in a stable position and the rotor (thank's to the one way bearing )  spins , i can think that someting special is to evaluate.

good night at all

Laurent

Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: e2matrix on March 20, 2014, 02:17:29 AM
woopy,  when you mentioned needing a very un-elastic belt I immediately thought of a possible source depending on what size you need vacuum cleaner belts tend to be very strong and non-elastic if you could use something in that size range.   IIRC they are usually about 1/4" wide (about 6mm) to 1/2" wide (about 13mm) and various lengths.    I know some are very strong while others may be more elastic but some I've seen are like miniature car serpentine belts with very little elasticity.   Seems prices run aroun \$3 to \$10 or a little more depending on type.
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: woopy on March 20, 2014, 11:34:29 PM
Hi e2matrix

Thank's for the info

I am trying  with a antiderapage (antisliping )  band for boat use . Because there is not only the need to be unelastic, but also it must be very soft. Because if the belt is too stiff, the stifness interfere with the rotation.

Remember that i am actually only looking for knowing if this system is in some contradiction with  Newton's law, as Mr.  Kanarev  claims.

So i have also glued antisliding band on both shaft's pulley and so i have absolutely no more slipping

The system seems to work very well , but as it is very small , the transmission belt must be very precise. It is why i think that Mr. Linevich used chain  (soft and unelastic ) for his system. An probably i will have to build a bigger and heavier proto to confirm the result.

So stay tuned

Laurent
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: lancaIV on April 07, 2014, 05:49:51 PM
Only to remember a similar force multiplying approach :

Sincerely
OCWL
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: mscoffman on April 17, 2014, 05:06:43 PM
My education stemmed from the end of the era of analog computing where electrical equations and therefore circuitry
could be set up to model physical systems. One could then watch the evolution of the physical system based in the
the evolution of the electrical signals in the analog circuit.

It occurred to me that if Milkovech Dual Pendulum systems could vest overunity energy then the real world analogues
of the dual pendulum systems should also vest overunity energy. So I independently came up with the idea that the
Linevich paper, if true, should also hold for the Dual Pendulum systems and vice versa, where a bi-directional electrical
transducer can substituted for one or both of the physical pendulums. The analog signal could then be in terms of
oscillations in voltage, current or power in a sine wave phase space of the circuit.

I have also seen that the uni-directional cuff bearing used in the Linevitch paper - a motor brake system, has an analog in
an electric motor's inherent tendency to modulate input power demand based on the tendency of mechanical load modification
being transduced to electrical load impedance with a filter delay. So if this is true no overrun cuff bearing is
required but only that the motor shaft rpm repeatedly approach the brake shaft rpm from below. This would be described by
an observer that the motor has a tendency to "lug" when driving the load. So, it means that if these things are true then
a Qmogen motor/generator system can actually produce excess energy when the above conditions hold true. Note that a
Qmogen cannot be in the form of a dynamotor where the motor and the generator share a common shaft if drive coupling
is to play a role in the overunity generation.

If the mathematics of the time evolution of physical systems can always be described completely in terms of Hamiltonians then
I suspect overunity systems will always occur at places where the solutions to the Quaternions result in multiple mathematical
solutions. Science has claimed that in these situations natural systems always take the path of equivalent energy, but without
providing a *proof* that this always happens.  If one can come up with situations where Hamiltonians show that neither path
has equivalent energies in a realizable physical system then one will have demonstrated that conservation of energy can not
always hold true. In effect the complexity of the mathematics of the situation would overrun the ability of the universe to
compute the result of the situation when conservation of energy holds true.

:S:MarkSCoffman
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: TinselKoala on April 17, 2014, 05:13:48 PM
Sure. And if pigs had wings, a pilot's licence, and clearance from the tower, they could take off and fly.

Unfortunately.... there is no credible evidence, anywhere, that pigs do fly.

I have a great idea: Let's wait until we see some pigs flying, before we try to explain how or why they do!

Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: woopy on April 17, 2014, 11:50:04 PM
Sure. And if pigs had wings, a pilot's licence, and clearance from the tower, they could take off and fly.

Unfortunately.... there is no credible evidence, anywhere, that pigs do fly.

I have a great idea: Let's wait until we see some pigs flying, before we try to explain how or why they do!

YOU ARE TOTALY WRONG  TINSELKOALA

because if pigs got wings, they do not need  a pilot licence or a tower clearance to get airborne, but they only have to get the wings flapping   hUUU!!

REGARDS

laurent
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: vince on April 19, 2014, 02:27:29 AM
I've been posting in the double pendulum thread but this applies here too.  This was my first test.

http://youtu.be/lFornDBZsJY

Vince
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: gotoluc on April 19, 2014, 03:06:40 AM
WOW!  excellent job Vince

Can you tell us what happens to the input power (watts) when you load the output one way clutch sprocket.

Thanks for sharing

Luc﻿
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: vince on April 19, 2014, 04:16:27 AM
Thanks Luc

I only did some crude testing with a wattmeter. I've tested 4 different motors.  Speed of rotation makes  a huge  difference in power output.  In all  4 motors I tried loading up the output sprocket with friction from a board.. There was NO increase in the wattmeter at all even at full stall of oscillation using a smaller motor.  What happens is that as you reach the  power output limit of the spinning weights, oscillation stops and the pendulums just keep rotating with no extra load on the motor except what it originally takes to turn the pendulums. When I used a larger 1 hp 3450 rpm at motor with a 1 to 1 ratio the the power is incredible! The whole machine wants to walk around so it is pretty scary. Centrifugal force is extremely powerful and I venture to say that a properly made machine could really drive a large load.

Vince
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: gotoluc on April 19, 2014, 04:35:18 AM

I was wondering why you have a spring at one end of your one way clutch delivery chain?  can you explain why you added that.

Really looking forward to see what kind of power you can pull out of this baby.

Thanks again for doing all this great work

Luc
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: vince on April 19, 2014, 05:04:29 AM
I originally had the chain rigidly attached at both ends.  Because there is a one way clutch there is a large tension on one side of the chain on the up cycle and little on the down cycle.  With the extreme ocsillations This creates slack on the down and the the chain does not track properly and binds .  The spring keeps tension and allows the chain to stay engaged.

This use of centrifugal force is something that I believe is worth pursuing.  I do however think we can make better use of the powerfull oscillations without the use of a one way clutch or bearing. I'm not sure how much of a rotation is needed in a normal generator to start generating power but if a rocking motion of the armature is enough to induce into the stator it might be possible to eliminate the one way clutch.
Even placing a coil and core on the end of the pendulum arm with a corresponding core and winding fixed on the base unit might be a good alternative.

Vince
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: gotoluc on April 19, 2014, 05:50:43 AM

Looking forward to more tests

Thanks for sharing

Luc
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: woopy on April 19, 2014, 10:27:28 AM

This use of centrifugal force is something that I believe is worth pursuing.  I do however think we can make better use of the powerfull oscillations without the use of a one way clutch or bearing. I'm not sure how much of a rotation is needed in a normal generator to start generating power but if a rocking motion of the armature is enough to induce into the stator it might be possible to eliminate the one way clutch.
Even placing a coil and core on the end of the pendulum arm with a corresponding core and winding fixed on the base unit might be a good alternative.

Vince

Yes it is a good idea. I  have tried this with my very small system

I have connected the "rocking" shaft directly to the diametrically magnetised magnet of a small aquarium (220 volts) water pump.
I could get a nice sine wave, but because the rocking movement is quite short (only some degrees ), the magnet cannot generate a high voltage .
But with your system i think it will be possible to get much better results and avoid the always tricky one way bearing.

Just for info there is water pump with diametrically magnetised magnet in washing machines, there are bigger than my small aquarium pump, and there are very good génerator when used in reverse. And if you locate the pump in the place of  the one way bearing, you should be able to  get a rocking movement of about 180 degree,  and probably  get a very interesting voltage i am sure.

Thank's for sharing

Laurent
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: ariovaldo on July 31, 2014, 10:34:34 PM

I don't know if is the right topic, but I found this one today.

Cheers
Ariovaldo
Title: Re: Motor Generators - Free Energy - An Explanation
Post by: Bob Smith on August 01, 2014, 01:39:43 AM
If the above link doesn't work, this one might: