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Author Topic: Akula0083 30 Watt Self Running Generator.  (Read 1156347 times)

Offline MenofFather

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Re: Akula0083 30 Watt Self Running Generator.
« Reply #375 on: March 20, 2014, 08:57:04 AM »
"For example, arguments are still raging about that Ground wire connection to pin 16 of  TL494.Know this: If you remove that connection (like I have seen in some diagrams in this thread), you will also lose the Ground connection to the indicator LED HL11 AND the Ground connection to voltage divider R9-R11-R10 which will result in error amplifier A1+ (pin 1) will be at the supply voltage (+12V) potential trough R9 and part of R11 (pot)!"
Author also write something about 16 leg, that it must be conected to ground if I good remember...


Offline MileHigh

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Re: Akula0083 30 Watt Self Running Generator.
« Reply #377 on: March 20, 2014, 09:29:06 AM »
Les:

Quote
Also, don't fall for all that nonsense (yes, nonsense!) about input/output power measurements as some posters promote!

Your statement is the nonsense statement.  There have been countless projects similar to this in the past, many where people made PCBs.  There has been no magic with all of the past projects, so why should anyone just blindly believe and not try to make any measurements?

Quote
You are NOT dealing with a device with a claim of marginal OU in the order of a few percent which could perhaps be a measurement error!

What you ARE dealing with is just claim and a few Russian video clips.  Why should a transformer or an inductor for this variation on a pulse circuit be any different than all the other previous circuits that failed?  If people try to make serious measurements of the input and output power then they at least learn something that they can apply to other projects.  They may even be tempted to follow the signal path like I said and understand how the circuit actually works.

Quote
If you want to know the input power to this device, I can give it to you right now:
The TL494 IC, running on a 15V supply has a maximum current draw of 10 mA.
(average 7.5 mA)
That translates to 150 mW (0.15 W). (maximum)
Add the 12V regulator's power consumption of approx. 96 mW (maximum) and you have a
TOTAL of 246 mW (0.246 W)

You have got to be kidding.  I am looking at the Russian schematic and I see the 12-volt supply is connected to the top of the L1 transformer coil through a diode, another 'L1,' and R1.  The bottom of the transformer L1 is connected to the MOSFET drain.  That path supplies the power to the main transformer that drives the LEDs.  So you are not even accounting for the main power consumption path in the schematic.

Quote
However, this device will produce 30 W (or more) depending on the LOAD and the transformer
you use.

Possibly, but you had better measure power drain from the battery at the same time and do your due diligence like any normal person should.  The proper terminology is "output 30 watts" and not "produce 30 watts."  Don't be surprised if the power drain from the battery is more than 30 watts.

Quote
I hope you can see the stupidity of those who blindly INSIST on input/output measurements!

You have it the wrong way around.  Not making measurements is when you are blind.  That is the stupid thing to do.

All:  Don't take some Russian guy's word that this circuit is magic and outputs 30 watts from nowhere.  Make measurements and use your heads to start thinking for yourselves.

MileHigh

Offline MenofFather

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Re: Akula0083 30 Watt Self Running Generator.
« Reply #378 on: March 20, 2014, 09:49:04 AM »
Also author wrote, that use not 12 volts stabiliser, but 9 volts.

Offline MenofFather

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Re: Akula0083 30 Watt Self Running Generator.
« Reply #379 on: March 20, 2014, 09:51:38 AM »
MileHigh, about that meshurement you speaking? Author get selfrunning.

Offline Grumage

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Re: Akula0083 30 Watt Self Running Generator.
« Reply #380 on: March 20, 2014, 12:09:43 PM »
Dear Les Banki.

Welcome.  :)

I found your post both informative and inspirational, thank you.  :)

I feel it is a good thing that there are members of this forum who have a much greater understanding of things, electronic, and are willing to freely share this knowledge to those less fortunate !!

As you rightly mentioned the electronic control circuit has no mystery, the mystery being solely rooted in the transformer!! This is the beast that we should all experiment with.

On a different note, initial prices are in for the components and as always the final price of a built and tested drive circuit will depend on the number of units produced !!

I should be able to provide a better idea of cost, later today or tomorrow.

Till then,  :)

Cheers Grum.

Offline 4Tesla

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Re: Akula0083 30 Watt Self Running Generator.
« Reply #381 on: March 20, 2014, 04:22:10 PM »
Due to proposed avalanche effect the name of the thread should be changed to Drakula runaway generator.  ;D ;D

Mr. Banki scared me by saying something can blow in my face.   :-\

Pun intended.

Best,

True when working with any device like this.   Circuit protection such as fuse or breaker can help.  Also wear eye protection.

Offline T-1000

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Re: Akula0083 30 Watt Self Running Generator.
« Reply #382 on: March 20, 2014, 08:17:01 PM »
For example, arguments are still raging about that Ground wire connection to pin 16 of  TL494.
Know this:
If you remove that connection (like I have seen in some diagrams in this thread), you will also lose the Ground connection to the indicator LED HL11 AND the Ground connection to voltage divider R9-R11-R10 which will result in error amplifier A1+ (pin 1) will be at the supply voltage (+12V) potential trough R9 and part of R11 (pot)!

 
This has already been pointed out by one poster ('lost_bro' on page 6) and yet, even as I write this, yet another diagram appeared (“Akmodedit.png”) where that Ground connection is MISSING!
This diagram has been REPEATEDLY posted!


Well, as Russians usually say - who are soldering radio circuits will spot and correct mistakes. For others these circuits have no real value.
In USSR times Russian radio enthusiasts was always correcting mistakes from circuits in radio journals to make them work. And also if you understand what driver circuit is expected to do you can swap to equivalent one - like 555 timer circuit with very low duty cycle... ;)

Cheers!

Offline lost_bro

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Re: Akula0083 30 Watt Self Running Generator.
« Reply #383 on: March 20, 2014, 08:21:00 PM »

Hello All,
This is from the Russian forum where the original modified circuit was posted:

4 сообщений
Отправлено 02 Март 2014 - 09:26
TOPruslan сказал(а) 19 Фев 2014 - 07:02:
Ребят , я тут языком чесать не регистрировался. Извините , если что не так. Но у Акулы есть не только фонарик на 1 Ватт !!! У него есть схема,которая  у меня служит доказательством существования СЕ :)  Это фонарь на все 30 Ватт. Собирается на ШИМ контроллере 494 и парочкой транзюков. Конечно без катушки тут не обошлось. Она там проста и легко делается. Но есть на схеме подвох. 16 нога микрухи скорее всего на корпусе ("-") или генератор не выпускает на выход ничего. Кренку я заменил на 9 вольтовую , так как 12 вольт старт и кренка 12 вольт...Ну тут как то не алё. Катушку мотал как написано,но при этом использовал провод 1мм. Вместо светодиодов использовал один мощный прожектор - светодиод на 10 Ватт. Подрубал ещё параллельно один и всё работало. Но тут есть ещё одна фигня ! 2 дня я ждал что будет с этой все схемой. Горело всё красиво. Но в оди вечер погасло :) Решил разобраться , в чём дело ?!  Рассыпался сердечник трафа так, как будто кто-то  стукнул его молотком. Я склеил заново супкр клеем и запустил. В таком состоянии он работал ещё 2 дня и повторилась история. Только теперь он лопнул в других местах. Думал , что же такое ? Оказывается , сделал ошибку при намотке и экранировании , где между катушками поместил экран из меди. При этом замкнув его в один виток. Тоже самое сделал и поверх вторички. Но там он распаялся и прожёг изоленту,намотанную с верху. Вообщем устранил я все эти глупости и сейчас всё пока горит уже 4-ый день. Не прикосаюсь пока. Схема проста , но детали все нужно искать такими,что указанны в схеме. особенно диоды на выходе. (Ребята, как сюда картинку засунуть Вам)
   Привет всем, не вижу опции написать самому Руслану, поэтому может бть он прочтет и ответит, в приведенной вами схеме на стр 7  вы много чего поменяли он изначальной, , вы добавили один транзистор, диод и так далеею Вероятно в ыочень хороший эдектронщик, если способны так лихо изменять схемы, и , конечно возникает вопрос, а почему вы не захотели попробовать на имеющейся схеме , вероятно она была не оригинальная и нас пытались специально ввести в заблуждение или наоборот? имеющаяяся схема с другого форума , может быть специально с ошибками / ведь авторство не известно прилагаю  файл

Posted March 2, 2014 - 9:26
TOPruslan said ( a) February 19, 2014 - 7:02 :
Guys , I've been scratching your language is not recorded . Sorry if that is not so . But the Sharks have not only 1 watt flashlight ! He has a scheme that I have is proof of the existence of the CE :) This lantern on all 30 watts. Going to the PWM controller 494 and a couple tranzyukov . Certainly without coil there has not been . It is simple and there is easily done . But there is a catch on the scheme . 16 foot mikruhi likely on the body ( "-") or the generator does not produce output anything. Krenke I replaced the 9 volt , 12 volt since the start and Krenke 12 volts ... Well here as it is not ale . Coil shook as it is written , but he used 1mm wire . LEDs used instead of one powerful searchlight - 10 Watt LED . Hem parallel to one another and everything worked. But there is another garbage ! I waited 2 days what will happen to all of this scheme. Burned all beautifully . But Odie extinguished evening :) I decided to find out what's the matter ? Crumbled core cores as if someone hit him with a hammer. I re- glued supkr glue and ran . In this state, he worked for 2 more days and repeated the story . Only now he burst elsewhere. Thought , what is ? It turns out , had made a mistake when winding and shielding where placed between the coils of copper screen . While hooked it in one turn . Did the same thing over and the secondary . But there it is soldered and burned insulation tape wound to the top. I even eliminate all this nonsense and now everything is lit until the fourth day. Prikosatsya not yet. The scheme is simple , but the details need to look for all those that are specified in the schema. especially at the output diodes . ( Guys like you shove here image )
   Hi all, I do not see an option to write most Ruslan , so he can bt read and respond to you here on page 7 scheme you a lot of things have changed it original , you've added a transistor , a diode , and so probably in Dale yochen edektronschik good , if they are able so valiantly to change the scheme , and of course the question arises , why do not you want to try on the existing scheme , it probably was not the original , and we specifically tried to mislead or vice versa? imeyuschayayasya scheme from another forum , can be specifically with errors / authorship is not known.

This was translated by Google, not me.  I know the translation sucks, but TOPruslan, the creator of the modified circuit speaks about winding the transformer and the two copper shields and a short circuit that burned it......


Here is the Link: http://www.freenergy.com.ua/topic/132-ustanovka-akula0083/page-14

seems to be alot of other information and zip files available if you register.

take care, peace.
lost_bro

Offline Grumage

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Re: Akula0083 30 Watt Self Running Generator.
« Reply #384 on: March 20, 2014, 08:45:27 PM »
Dear lost_bro.

Many thanks for that very interesting translation.

HOPE !!  So the Ferrite self destructs !! NAR ?? NMR ??

BTW keep looking at your PM's !!  ;)

Cheers Grum.

Offline elementSix

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Re: Akula0083 30 Watt Self Running Generator.
« Reply #385 on: March 20, 2014, 09:04:17 PM »
Sorry for your thread Grumage,  I think Les is right.  It's being highjacked and being destroyed before it has even started.  Trust yourself  in the end.  I don't know much on the workings of circuits like this but I would look for the impulse creation from this circuit.  If it's like his other setups, then there has to be an impulse of some sort created in there somewhere.   Anyways I found this SSTC circuit from way back and found it interesting that it ran off of the TL494 also.  just interesting.  Good Luck

Offline T-1000

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Re: Akula0083 30 Watt Self Running Generator.
« Reply #386 on: March 20, 2014, 11:48:50 PM »
http://www.freenergy.com.ua/topic/132-ustanovka-akula0083/page-8#entry11192

TOPruslan: Обмотка мотается так : 1. Сперва мотаете с края  15 витков , а затем прокладываете бумажку и мотаете 45 витков поверх. Позже выложу как было у меня.
Translation: windings are done in this way: 1. First you wind 15 turns from beginning, put paper between and later on wind other coil of 45 turns on top of primary. Later will show how I have it.

So my assumption seems correct in way of windings are made.. :)


Offline MenofFather

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Re: Akula0083 30 Watt Self Running Generator.
« Reply #387 on: March 21, 2014, 06:09:13 AM »
"
4 сообщений
Отправлено 02 Март 2014 - 09:26
TOPruslan сказал(а) 19 Фев 2014 - 07:02:
Ребят , я тут языком чесать не регистрировался. Извините , если что не так. Но у Акулы есть не только фонарик на 1 Ватт !!! У него есть схема,которая  у меня служит доказательством существования СЕ :)  Это фонарь на все 30 Ватт. Собирается на ШИМ контроллере 494 и парочкой транзюков. Конечно без катушки тут не обошлось. Она там проста и легко делается. Но есть на схеме подвох. 16 нога микрухи скорее всего на корпусе ("-") или генератор не выпускает на выход ничего. Кренку я заменил на 9 вольтовую , так как 12 вольт старт и кренка 12 вольт...Ну тут как то не алё. Катушку мотал как написано,но при этом использовал провод 1мм. Вместо светодиодов использовал один мощный прожектор - светодиод на 10 Ватт. Подрубал ещё параллельно один и всё работало. Но тут есть ещё одна фигня ! 2 дня я ждал что будет с этой все схемой. Горело всё красиво. Но в оди вечер погасло :) Решил разобраться , в чём дело ?!  Рассыпался сердечник трафа так, как будто кто-то  стукнул его молотком. Я склеил заново супкр клеем и запустил. В таком состоянии он работал ещё 2 дня и повторилась история. Только теперь он лопнул в других местах. Думал , что же такое ? Оказывается , сделал ошибку при намотке и экранировании , где между катушками поместил экран из меди. При этом замкнув его в один виток. Тоже самое сделал и поверх вторички. Но там он распаялся и прожёг изоленту,намотанную с верху. Вообщем устранил я все эти глупости и сейчас всё пока горит уже 4-ый день. Не прикосаюсь пока. Схема проста , но детали все нужно искать такими,что указанны в схеме. особенно диоды на выходе. (Ребята, как сюда картинку засунуть Вам)
   Привет всем, не вижу опции написать самому Руслану, поэтому может бть он прочтет и ответит, в приведенной вами схеме на стр 7  вы много чего поменяли он изначальной, , вы добавили один транзистор, диод и так далеею Вероятно в ыочень хороший эдектронщик, если способны так лихо изменять схемы, и , конечно возникает вопрос, а почему вы не захотели попробовать на имеющейся схеме , вероятно она была не оригинальная и нас пытались специально ввести в заблуждение или наоборот? имеющаяяся схема с другого форума , может быть специально с ошибками / ведь авторство не известно прилагаю  файл

Posted March 2, 2014 - 9:26
TOPruslan said ( a) February 19, 2014 - 7:02 :
Guys , I've been scratching your language is not recorded . Sorry if that is not so . But the Sharks have not only 1 watt flashlight ! He has a scheme that I have is proof of the existence of the overunity :) This lantern on all 30 watts. Going to the PWM controller 494 and a couple transistors . Certainly without coil there has not been . It is simple and there is easily done . But there is a catch on the scheme . 16 foot mikroscheme likely on the body ( "-") or the generator does not produce output anything. Voltage stabiliser I replaced the 9 volt , 12 volt since the start and voltage stibiliser 12 volts ... Well here as it is not ale . Coil shook as it is written , but he used 1mm wire . LEDs used instead of one powerful searchlight - 10 Watt LED . Hem parallel to one another and everything worked. But there is another garbage ! I waited 2 days what will happen to all of this scheme. Burned all beautifully . But Odie extinguished evening :) I decided to find out what's the matter ? Crumbled core cores as if someone hit him with a hammer. I re- glued supkr glue and ran . In this state, he worked for 2 more days and repeated the story . Only now he burst elsewhere. Thought , what is ? It turns out , had made a mistake when winding and shielding where placed between the coils of copper screen . While hooked it in one turn . Did the same thing over and the secondary . But there it is soldered and burned insulation tape wound to the top. I even eliminate all this nonsense and now everything is lit until the fourth day. Not touch yet. The scheme is simple , but the details need to look for all those that are specified in the schema. especially at the output diodes . ( Guys like you shove here image )
   Hi all, I do not see an option to write most Ruslan , so he can bt read and respond to you here on page 7 scheme you a lot of things have changed it original , you've added a transistor , a diode , and so probably in Dale good electronik man , if they are able so valiantly to change the scheme , and of course the question arises , why do not you want to try on the existing scheme , it probably was not the original , and we specifically tried to mislead or vice versa? imeyuschayayasya scheme from another forum , can be specifically with errors / authorship is not known.

This was translated by Google, not me.  I know the translation sucks, but TOPruslan, the creator of the modified circuit speaks about winding the transformer and the two copper shields and a short circuit that burned it......"

I little corect words.


Then I say about ecran I mean shielding and screen... ;D

Offline verpies

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Re: Akula0083 30 Watt Self Running Generator.
« Reply #388 on: March 21, 2014, 01:34:14 PM »
Also, don't fall for all that nonsense (yes, nonsense!) about input/output power measurements as some posters promote!

Why do I make such a statement?
Simple.
You are NOT dealing with a device with a claim of marginal OU in the order of a few percent which could perhaps be a measurement error!
 
If you want to know the input power to this device, I can give it to you right now:
The TL494 IC, running on a 15V supply has a maximum current draw of 10 mA.
(average 7.5 mA)
That translates to 150 mW (0.15 W). (maximum)
Add the 12V regulator's power consumption of approx. 96 mW (maximum) and you have a
TOTAL of 246 mW (0.246 W)
Now, just for the hell of it, DOUBLE it and round it to 0.5 W.
However, this device will produce 30 W (or more) depending on the LOAD and the transformer
The power measurements relate to the whole device, not only to its "control section".
You accounted for the power output of the main transformer but you did not account for its power input - a major oversight.

It makes great sense to make O/I power measurements unless you have a long-term self-runner without an external power supply.
...and if you don't, then power measurements provide a reliable indication how far off from the self-running goal, the device is tuned.

Offline verpies

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Re: Akula0083 30 Watt Self Running Generator.
« Reply #389 on: March 21, 2014, 02:01:20 PM »
Why should a transformer or an inductor for this variation on a pulse circuit be any different than all the other previous circuits that failed? 

As you rightly mentioned the electronic control circuit has no mystery, the mystery being solely rooted in the transformer!! This is the beast that we should all experiment with.
Yes, the control circuit is not mysterious at all.
If there is any magic, it is in the transformer.

For example, MenofFather hast posted a winding layout diagram here that according to conventional electronic principles of engineering, has no chances of functioning.
Mr. LesBanki has noticed these shorted turns and stated:
Oh...'MenofFather' posted suggestions to the winding method, including SHORTED turns!
Guys, with all due respect, with that kind of suggestions you will never get anywhere!  Guaranteed!
And he is correct within the boundaries of conventional electronics. 
However if some unconventional piece of physics happens in those shorted turns (e.g. McFreey's beta current) then the senseless becomes the sensible.

I decided to find out what's the matter ? The core crumbled as if someone hit it with a hammer. I re-glued them with super glue and it worked. In this state, it worked for 2 more days and then the story repeated, only now it broke elsewhere.  What is it - I wondered ? 
It turned out, that I had made a mistake with the placement of windings and copper tape shielding...

Dear lost_bro.  Many thanks for that very interesting translation.
HOPE !!  So the Ferrite self destructs !! NAR ?? NMR ??
So as you can see again and again, this transformer is a very complicated and "mysterious" device ;)

The core can break due to excessive heating (usually caused by hysteresis losses) or due to acoustic stress (usually caused by magnetostriction).
The acoustic pressure waves can reflect from the boundaries of the core and form acoustic standing waves of very high amplitudes.
These hi.ampltude standing waves appear only at specific frequencies and they can break up the core ...or affect the nuclei if one gets the B & f just right.