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Author Topic: Is this the same? Gundersons Solid State Electric Generator Patent  (Read 22271 times)

Offline steve_whiss

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On first glance this looks like the same device as Steve Marks ring - or uses a variation on the same principle; Graham Gunderson's built his magnets in and has explained how it works in the Patent.

http://www.magneticpowerinc.com/mpi-patentapplication.pdf

With the magnets fixed in, would this one stop if you turned it over??

SteveB

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline Overtone

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This is an entirely different invention. 

It is much more complex than it appears.  More details will emerge when the Patent is issued. 

Since we are a patent licensing firm, it would be irresponsible to reveal anything more until that time.

Mark Goldes, CEO
Magnetic Power Inc.

Offline hartiberlin

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Re: Is this the same? Gundersons Solid State Electric Generator Patent
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2006, 01:40:47 AM »
Hi Mark,
isn?t the patent already issued ?

Or are you waiting to get a licensing investor to buy it and
build products with it ?

When do you expect to be able to show working hardware ?

Many thanks.
Regards, Stefan.

P.S. I also think, the Steven Mark units are much different
and are more related to selfresonating
and feedbacked Barkhausen resonance.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Is this the same? Gundersons Solid State Electric Generator Patent
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2006, 01:40:47 AM »
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Offline AdamMarquis

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Re: Is this the same? Gundersons Solid State Electric Generator Patent
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2006, 10:11:30 PM »
Overtone, I believe it's not as complex as you imply it is.
Sure it depends on magnets more than S. Mark's devices,
but still!!

To me it looks deceptively simple, (yet...
that damn flux is puzzling me!) here's why.

When one looks at electromagnetics from a moving electron standpoint
(without an unless magnetic field abstraction, take a look at the New Magnetism
of Distinti @ http://www.distinti.com )
the most simple alternator is this one, from a guy in Laval, Quebec, Canada
US Pat. Application 20050099081 @ http://pat2pdf.org
A magnet being a one wire loop of n amperes, it's easy to conceive and
even calculate what's going on.

The Magnetic power Inc device make the Disk Alternator almost
obsolete, since it's  the same basic idea, except the magnets are
not moving. Now, if we take into account the 5-6 thousand
hertz Steven Mark was able to pulse its cores at, it would
mean that the solid state electrical generator is similar to
a disk alternator driven to circa 70,000 RPMs!!

Adding to that the toroidally wound generator in the Sullivan patent,
20030025416 @ pat2pdf.org
and the low-loss rotating flux transformer patents from Westinghouse
4639610 and 4595843 @ http://pat2pdf.org
one can get understanding of what possibilities are out there.
Basically, saturate the core of the CEG to get free energy out of a
no-moving part flywheel, at least it's what I understand about it.

The CEG,  20030168921, is the 4595843 patent applied to electrical
energy generation. The best way I know of implementing the
blaxbox box is SHE (Selective Harmonic Elimination) sinewave synthesis,
more commonly known as Magic Sinewaves.

========
(additional material added in the post, in reply to Overtone)

Regarding the drive coil of the Gundersons device, one has to think
Fynn et al 's Parallel Path technology (newest patent 6342746).

The Parallel-Symmetric coil idea by Erl Koenig is worth of mention too.
It is contained in this US patent, 4806834, which state 25% current
reduction for the same magnetic effect is possible. (His 4584438
patent is a great application of this parallel-symmetric coil idea,
along with the more recent 5977707) It smells bifilar winding.

The Anonymous poster's explanation of the Marks device
http://www.overunity.com/index.php/topic,712.msg10964.html#msg10964
mention at the very first point the transistorized bifilar 
kicker of Bedini, which is similar in action to the Time Energy Pump
project, which material might relate to the Mark device.
http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/scalwidx.htm

I'm pretty sure the Gunderson device is home buildable from
the combined information in the aforementionned patents.

I recently read the first few S.M. comments about the
difficulties of understanding his device, will read the others
as soon as I get time to give.
« Last Edit: September 02, 2006, 05:59:11 AM by AdamMarquis »

Offline Overtone

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Re: Gundersons Solid State Electric Generator is not simple to build!
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2006, 01:02:10 AM »
There will be more to the final version (or versions) of this patent (or patents) that will explain my earlier statement.  As a licensing firm, we cannot disclose information prematurely. 

Our goal is mass production of these and several other types of self-sustaining generators, both solid-state and rotary, as rapidly as possible - with the widest distribution so that they can be affordable even in very poor countries. 

There are many aspects of this invention which are not obvious and not simple.  As work proceeds in the lab, we are learning how practical devices can be prototyped and later produced. 

Bringing down the cost will involve the development of new materials.  The early examples are expensive to produce.  We are confident we can accomplish the goal mentioned above, but it is not easy, nor can it be done on a shoestring. 

Think of the history of the transistor.  That is perhaps a good example of a device that was initially very difficult to make.  Today, they are mass produced by the millions at extremely low cost. 

We hope the process moves much faster with energy production, but that is not helped by individuals believing they can make it in a home workshop.  I assure you that in such a case, it will not be Over Unity.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Gundersons Solid State Electric Generator is not simple to build!
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2006, 01:02:10 AM »
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Offline supersam

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Re: Is this the same? Gundersons Solid State Electric Generator Patent
« Reply #5 on: September 04, 2006, 06:09:22 AM »
 ;)adam or manix

whicih part of to take full advatage of this device YOU HAVE TO GET INTO THREE DIMENSSIONS DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND!?  LOOKING AT ANYTHING IN A CIRCLE IS LIKE PLAYING DEAD TO A SPHERE.

Offline supersam

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Re: Is this the same? Gundersons Solid State Electric Generator Patent
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2006, 06:12:15 AM »
i am not going to do the math for you. but the math exists. look at the relationship of pi and phi and i think you will find the harmonics you seek!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Is this the same? Gundersons Solid State Electric Generator Patent
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2006, 06:12:15 AM »
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Offline supersam

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Re: Is this the same? Gundersons Solid State Electric Generator Patent
« Reply #7 on: September 04, 2006, 06:14:22 AM »
try looking at a sphere in a sphere?

Offline giantkiller

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Re: Is this the same? Gundersons Solid State Electric Generator Patent
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2006, 06:31:59 AM »
Here is my take on this issue...
I will now attempt to dispell any unknowns presented by prestidigation or techno smoke.

In regards to Stephen Mark rings: Let's go back to basics. The first coil is 3", the 2nd coil is 6", and the 3rd coil is 17" in dia.
All devices have their electronics in the middle. The 3" and the 6" have lumps. The 17" has clearly visible drivers of some type in the center.
I will focus on the 3" coil. In the videos, the operator reaches in the center to the lump and presses something and states 'to engergize the device'. He presses a switch. The operator also states that 'there are no batteries involved that could produce the measured output'. Correct and nice speak. But if one were to have 4 AAA batteries to a two stage transistor ocsillator at 5k, one could achieve(with the right amout of turns) a step up transformer capable of the output shown. The device could be Telsa coil of some sort. The 6" and 17" are just bigger versions.
In the videos we haven't seen any devices left on for a real life time of usage, as in "what's the battery life?". That is a small factor to overcome. But still.

Why doesn't Stephen produce a schematic? At least the core material, input/output wire gauge, turns ratio and maybe the drive electronics and battery configuration. Not asking too much, am I?

If I could get the schematics just for the 3" then reproduction could be incredibly cheap. Make a gaggle of them and position them in different horizontal / vertical formations and see what happens. Also with the electronics put externally, the experimenter could submerge the devices and see the vortex or pump action. Why? I gotta bullet with your name on it if you need instructions. The object is so very simple: To play!

Oh, by the way. The 3" coil drive and the 6" coil drive electronics are the same. The operator continously misrepresentes things, like batteries, device on/off  techniques. Things are misrepresented on purpose.

Instead of the smoke and mirrors and trying to play god or God, or some materialistic goal, does anybody stop to think of the outcome if a shatload of these things were released to the public. More on that later.

I mean, how long has the clandestinism have to go on. Let's go back in history. Galileo and two pieces of glass. 6k years of alcohol and we've only been fighting infection for 150 years?, Davinci and the helicopter, Jesus and love your neighbor(my God that's been 2k years), Plato and his descriptions of Thermo Nuclear plants with electricity generation(its in the public library), the egyptians had copper wire and magnets. Man, are we stupid or what?, phoentians in 2000 bc had compasses. We are soooo slow it's killing me.

I have built a prototype of the 3". I went to a salvage yard and bought a 3" dia. 2" piece of iron pipe. I used 50' of dual conductor 16 gauge speaker wire(one turn = 2). I have 66 turn toriod, 33 turn double wound. I used a 555 timer @ 5k hz to drive a tip41 npn transistor to the coil. Since the turn ratio is 1:1. I put 12 volts in, get 12 volts out. Ok, so I dont get over unity. I can now PLAY! What does anybody else have besides speak? Consider the gauntlet thrown.  And the weight? you guessed it: 1lb. No surprise here.

On another note:
In the 'Nicola Telsa' movie. The one that starts out with the shots of Niagra falls and the the statue of Magnetic Nic, himself. There is a tour through the museum in Belgrade and what is shown are the 3 steps to create a rotating magnetic field, which the movie never goes into. But the device is deceptively simple to make a magnetic vortex. This is one of those things that if you don't have it to play with you can't see the benefits. Besides, Tesla had big iron and copper to play with. A Tesla link: http://www.amasci.com/tesla/tesla.html

Anyway, on to further on...
I'd be willing to bet that if 3 rings were on and phased correctly to create a rotating tercerary field. My assumuption(if I am allowed) is that there is a field displacement. Yeah I know, unproven so why speak about it. If one coil exhibits gyroscopic torsion then why can't that be magnified, spun, twisted, angular focused changes. I am playing again. And this is a long diatribe. I must go. But, if we can get lift, then just think of it. "Tonight I dine in Morroco and sleep in italian vineyards. I'll breakfast in Malaysia, and chase roos in AUk. Or my RV takes me to Jersey for free".

My device tryouts could be the community breadboard. Any doubts, go put yourself outta my misery.
And yes, I have looked at John bedini, JLN, David Hamel and all the other sites and done the experiements. We are sooo close. If you google: 75 dead scientist, there are 76. Guess what the odd man out is. That's right, dead! Dr. Eugene Mallove (http://freeenergynews.com/newstuff/archive/2006/Feb.htm) went to publish his knowledge on overunity motors. It is truely a brave new world and it still stinks of greed.

This one is cool: http://pesn.com/2004/12/10/6900057_Perendev_Taking_Orders/
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Is this the same? Gundersons Solid State Electric Generator Patent
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2006, 06:31:59 AM »
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Offline Overtone

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Gundersons Solid State Electric Generator Patent has no relation to Marks!
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2006, 06:16:37 PM »
It would seem a good idea to move the Marks materials to a Marks thread. 

The analogy might be diesel and gasoline fueled engines.  They are completely different. 


Offline EMdevices

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Re: Is this the same? Gundersons Solid State Electric Generator Patent
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2006, 09:37:31 PM »
 ::)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2006, 04:58:53 AM by EMdevices »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Is this the same? Gundersons Solid State Electric Generator Patent
« Reply #10 on: October 08, 2006, 09:37:31 PM »
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Offline gyulasun

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Re: Is this the same? Gundersons Solid State Electric Generator Patent
« Reply #11 on: October 09, 2006, 10:36:06 AM »
...  Magnetic and Electric fields are linear fields!  (mediums might not be)

What does this mean?   

It means that Etotal = E1 + E2 + ...  , so if you have a field that fluctuates among other stationary fields, as from some magnets etc.,  the only field that CAN PRODUCE WORK IS THE TIME VARING FIELD.  (if its coupled to the output coils, the other stationary fields don't do anything)

So, in the patent, the input coils wound around the toroid, producing the oscilatory fields,  are not COUPLED to the output coils, which snake in and out the toroid in the radial plane.  Coupling means the net flux from one coil through another is not zero but in this case its zero, no coupling. 

The main point is this:   The input coils do not BEND the magnetic flux of the permanent magnets to somehow cause indirect coupling.  The field components simply add, static ones remain static, dynamic ones fluctuate but since they are not coupled, no power flows.  I notice a lot of patents that don't understand this basic principle, including the famous Berden and friends patent (I think its called the MEG? )  I guess people get exicited and have plenty of money to part with :)

Hi,

Basically you are right that if a change in the flux is not coupled to another flux then nothing or very little  happens.  However, a change in the flux can cause certain effects that may influence a change in the other flux. See this link: http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/Research/magcore.PDF

Here is another link that supports possible coupling between seemingly uncoupled fluxes:
http://www.intalek.com/Index/Projects/Research/VTA_Conditioning.pdf

So if the patent really works as stated I think a similar effect may happen in the ring core: a change in the core's permeability evokes a change in the permanent magnets' flux. You think it's possible?

Regards
Gyula

gn0stik

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Re: Is this the same? Gundersons Solid State Electric Generator Patent
« Reply #12 on: October 09, 2006, 07:07:42 PM »
Hello Mark,
glad you are part of this forum.   After learning about Steven Marks videos I let a friend know about it and he came back to me with the magneticpower patent,  glad to see that its not the one related to Steven Mark. 

The only patent I know of that is related to Steven Mark has to do with an invention related to audio, not Free energy, or any device that claims it. If you know of another patent that is related to SM please feel free to post the patent number.

Quote
I had doubts about that patent anyway, from the first time I saw it.  I belive it does not work!   and you have confirmed this for me saying that you have to prototype etc.  I will share a bit of wisdom for whoever is inclined to listen.  Magnetic and Electric fields are linear fields!  (mediums might not be)

What does this mean?   

It means that Etotal = E1 + E2 + ...  , so if you have a field that fluctuates among other stationary fields, as from some magnets etc.,  the only field that CAN PRODUCE WORK IS THE TIME VARING FIELD.  (if its coupled to the output coils, the other stationary fields don't do anything)

So, in the patent, the input coils wound around the toroid, producing the oscilatory fields,  are not COUPLED to the output coils, which snake in and out the toroid in the radial plane.  Coupling means the net flux from one coil through another is not zero but in this case its zero, no coupling. 

The main point is this:   The input coils do not BEND the magnetic flux of the permanent magnets to somehow cause indirect coupling.  The field components simply add, static ones remain static, dynamic ones fluctuate but since they are not coupled, no power flows.  I notice a lot of patents that don't understand this basic principle, including the famous Berden and friends patent (I think its called the MEG? )  I guess people get exicited and have plenty of money to part with :)

Thanks for the update on standard EM theory, we all needed it. See thing is, if we actually find FE, it probably won't be in the boundaries of known EM theory, but rather one of the other 14 calculations related to Mr. Maxwell's equations that we are no longer taught in physics classes.

Longitudinal waves are not linear. You'll notice that they are a common theme in FE research.

Rich.

Offline EMdevices

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Re: Is this the same? Gundersons Solid State Electric Generator Patent
« Reply #13 on: October 09, 2006, 08:22:30 PM »
 ::)
« Last Edit: November 21, 2006, 04:59:25 AM by EMdevices »

Offline Overtone

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Hi,

You are mistaken.  The patent application is simply incomplete.  A Continuation in Part will be filed, with a key fact added, that we discovered is necessary for it to function Over Unity.  It will not exceed unity as presently described.

This work, as with all inventions by Magnetic Power Inc., grows from laboratory experiments rather than theory.  We have discovered that widely accepted theory is incomplete or incorrect. 

Details are proprietary.

Those who can understand the math may want to read Carver Mead's thin volume entitled Collective Electrodynamics.  His book is about superconductivity, but it illustrates the difference between textbook knowledge and laboratory experiments. 

Mark Goldes
Chiarman & CEO
Magnetic Power Inc.




 

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