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Author Topic: Silly question about voltage and current  (Read 36604 times)

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Silly question about voltage and current
« Reply #90 on: March 02, 2014, 05:49:09 AM »
The coil was just one I had at hand to make the demonstration, the wave forms look much the same as the diagrams that you posted Mark. It's not a coil I would choose to use as a boost converter or something, it was just there so I used it. Apart from the absence of a ring down on the voltage trace it all looks normal to me, I only used 100 Hz to pulse it and it's 35 mH, to get past resonance It would require about 65 uF of capacitance. It's resistance is a bit much as well.

I make inductors for boost converters and such from small Iron powder cylinder cores wound with one or two strands of 1 mm Wire to get whatever inductance I want considering the frequency i want to use, my boost converters are high efficiency, and they do ring a bit.

eg. I designed one with a pair of 65 uH inductors to use at 40 kHz, I found this online app helpful. http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/Inductor-Current-Power-Calculator.phtml It's a real handy piece of kit.

Cheers

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Silly question about voltage and current
« Reply #90 on: March 02, 2014, 05:49:09 AM »

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Silly question about voltage and current
« Reply #91 on: March 02, 2014, 05:49:38 AM »
Ah, so there simply isn't enough time to see the ringdown if it is there. Thanks.

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Silly question about voltage and current
« Reply #92 on: March 02, 2014, 07:44:59 PM »
The coil was just one I had at hand to make the demonstration, the wave forms look much the same as the diagrams that you posted Mark. It's not a coil I would choose to use as a boost converter or something, it was just there so I used it. Apart from the absence of a ring down on the voltage trace it all looks normal to me, I only used 100 Hz to pulse it and it's 35 mH, to get past resonance It would require about 65 uF of capacitance. It's resistance is a bit much as well.

I make inductors for boost converters and such from small Iron powder cylinder cores wound with one or two strands of 1 mm Wire to get whatever inductance I want considering the frequency i want to use, my boost converters are high efficiency, and they do ring a bit.

eg. I designed one with a pair of 65 uH inductors to use at 40 kHz, I found this online app helpful. http://www.daycounter.com/Calculators/Inductor-Current-Power-Calculator.phtml It's a real handy piece of kit.

Cheers

Farmhand:

Thanks for the calculator link...I have added it to some others that I use.

Bill

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Silly question about voltage and current
« Reply #92 on: March 02, 2014, 07:44:59 PM »
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Offline dieter

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Re: Silly question about voltage and current
« Reply #93 on: March 04, 2014, 10:58:24 PM »
Speaking of calculators, I found one that allowed to enter some simple data to calculate the required capacitance to compensate a certain angle of inductive phase lag, but forgot to bookmark it, anyone?

BTW. what are you talking about, a collapsing magnet field does not cause a back emf?? Every cheap voltmeter will proof it does. It takes some time until the current has built up the magnet field. If you disconnect the power source, it will flow back like a rubberband. At least that is what I observed, I have no idea if it contradicts any theories. The voltage is ahead of the current in a coil when you turn it on, that "investment" of energy is the same amount as in the back emf. So no extra energy from the back emf.

I wanna say people should not trust their oscilloscopes too much, but then again, I know that I know nothing.

Dave45

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Re: Silly question about voltage and current
« Reply #94 on: March 05, 2014, 12:34:46 AM »
If we study classical physics we will probably never have free energy, think of a way and try it. V8Karlos came here in 2012 and gave some great suggestions a direction but not sure if anyone really tried his experiments.
He was using bifilar and caduceus coils like capacitors and getting some anomalous results, I have been studying his circuits, would suggest others do the same.

DC pulsed into a coil is negative energy, but the bemf from that coil will be pos.
AC pulsed into a coil is negative on one leg and pos on the other.
Ionizer's show us AC has a pos and neg leg, they also show us how to pull apart the ether so the pos and neg can be collected and static neutralizers show that if you do this with only one coil the effect is neutralized.


What does this mean and how can u make it work to your advantage.

Is voltage and current just pressure and flow, are negative and pos energy both flowing in a circuit

Will a diode pass both electrons and holes (positron)



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Silly question about voltage and current
« Reply #94 on: March 05, 2014, 12:34:46 AM »
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Offline Farmhand

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Re: Silly question about voltage and current
« Reply #95 on: March 05, 2014, 02:40:30 AM »
Speaking of calculators, I found one that allowed to enter some simple data to calculate the required capacitance to compensate a certain angle of inductive phase lag, but forgot to bookmark it, anyone?

BTW. what are you talking about, a collapsing magnet field does not cause a back emf?? Every cheap voltmeter will proof it does. It takes some time until the current has built up the magnet field. If you disconnect the power source, it will flow back like a rubberband. At least that is what I observed, I have no idea if it contradicts any theories. The voltage is ahead of the current in a coil when you turn it on, that "investment" of energy is the same amount as in the back emf. So no extra energy from the back emf.

I wanna say people should not trust their oscilloscopes too much, but then again, I know that I know nothing.

It depends on what "you're" definition of Back emf is, if you are defining it as returned emf then yes ok, the emf is returned for reuse if the circuit allows it to, but if you're definition of Back emf is the same thing as counter emf then no, the counter emf happens at the same time as the applied emf and the coil discharge happens after, the current is in the same direction and is therefore (forward emf or just emf).

Cheers

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Silly question about voltage and current
« Reply #96 on: March 05, 2014, 02:45:46 AM »
Quote
DC pulsed into a coil is negative energy,

Uhhhh..... no.

The diode drawing that mentions "negative energy" is also a facepalmer.


Sorry, dude, but you aren't going to be making much progress if you think like that. What is the current flowing through a reverse-biased Zener diode, I wonder, Orange Energy with the pips separated out?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Silly question about voltage and current
« Reply #96 on: March 05, 2014, 02:45:46 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Silly question about voltage and current
« Reply #97 on: March 05, 2014, 03:14:26 AM »
Dave, others:

Quote
DC pulsed into a coil is negative energy, but the bemf from that coil will be pos.
AC pulsed into a coil is negative on one leg and pos on the other.

There is no such thing as "negative energy" and "positive energy" like you are thinking.  Those comments are ridiculous.

It's the same old cliche.  If you actually understood how a coil works, you would be making some real progress.  But then people get defensive and all pouty when they hear that, or they refuse to even acknowledge the issue.

Some of you build circuits with coils all the time without knowing how they work.  Dave says that he has his "own understanding" but it's clearly the wrong understanding.

As a bare minimum, you should undertake to understand how coils and capacitors actually work, and not how you believe or fantasize how they work.  It's like you are a bunch of people in a wood shop and you don't understand how chisels and files work.

It's really that bad.  What makes it worse is that there are probably 250+ perfectly good clips on YouTube and 1000 web pages were you could learn how these components work.

The rant is over and nothing will change!

MileHigh

Offline Farmhand

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Re: Silly question about voltage and current
« Reply #98 on: March 05, 2014, 03:59:00 AM »
Yes energy is energy. If we think of it like this - If positive energy does or is work then is negative energy undoing work ? Or is negative energy doing negative work  ;D. Makes no sense.

..

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Silly question about voltage and current
« Reply #98 on: March 05, 2014, 03:59:00 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Silly question about voltage and current
« Reply #99 on: March 05, 2014, 04:41:29 AM »
Here is the best that you can do with ideal switches.

Dave45

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Re: Silly question about voltage and current
« Reply #100 on: March 05, 2014, 01:18:37 PM »
We live in a polar world the earth is negative the ionosphere is positive when lightning strikes leaders form from both, two forces seeking neutralization.
The air we breath the atmosphere we live in is neutral, pos and neg joined to collect from the environment we have to seperate the charges.
You laugh when I mentioned pos and neg charges and yet its everywhere, the ionization circuit is self explanatory.
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Silly question about voltage and current
« Reply #100 on: March 05, 2014, 01:18:37 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Silly question about voltage and current
« Reply #101 on: March 05, 2014, 01:24:51 PM »
We live in a polar world the earth is negative the ionosphere is positive when lightning strikes leaders form from both, two forces seeking neutralization.
The air we breath the atmosphere we live in is neutral, pos and neg joined to collect from the environment we have to seperate the charges.
You laugh when I mentioned pos and neg charges and yet its everywhere, the ionization circuit is self explanatory.
 
Dave, it is self-explanatory when you add the parasitic capacitor at either end that exists whether you choose to draw it or not.  So what do you want to do with this other than build a mosquito zapper?  Are you out to try and harvest lightning strikes?  Some of the challenges there are that the power levels are enormous and the form factors are very low.  IE it's a struggle to keep stuff from getting vaporized, and what does not get vaporized still loses tremendous energy to heat.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Silly question about voltage and current
« Reply #102 on: March 05, 2014, 02:30:58 PM »
Quote
You laugh when I mentioned pos and neg charges
No, Dave... we "laughed" when you talked about positive and negative _energy_. Charge is not energy, although it may be close, and charge is a conserved quantity. Positive and negative Charge is a very different concept than positive and negative Energy.

One of the big problems that we encounter here is this laxity of meaning. Check the definitions of your terms, please. You can certainly make up your own language (splitting the positive? Whaat?) but if you do then nobody but you will know what you are talking about. If that many.

Dave45

  • Guest
Re: Silly question about voltage and current
« Reply #103 on: March 05, 2014, 03:16:49 PM »
You say electrons are negative and that current flows from neg to pos then turn around and study circuits right the opposite, how can you ever understand whats really happening.

You said we laughed, do you really think that bothers me, I guess that makes me the minority, I like it, I really never fit in anyway and I like to follow my own path.

Ya'll keep patting each other on the back and agreeing and keep paying for something that is free.





Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Silly question about voltage and current
« Reply #104 on: March 05, 2014, 03:30:47 PM »
You say electrons are negative and that current flows from neg to pos then turn around and study circuits right the opposite, how can you ever understand whats really happening.
Why don't you ask the people who designed your computer? They do exactly that: they know which way electrons go, and they use the conventional circuit analysis that is "right the opposite". In fact, every single electronic device that you have ever seen that actually works, is designed by people that you think are stupid and wrong.
Quote

You said we laughed, do you really think that bothers me, I guess that makes me the minority, I like it, I really never fit in anyway and I like to follow my own path.
No, Dave, YOU said WE laughed at you for your positive and negative charges, and I corrected you because what I was laughing at, if I laughed, was your negative ENERGY. Charge is not energy, electron flow is not energy, conventional current is not energy, and especially when you pulse a DC coil you are NOT GIVING IT NEGATIVE ENERGY. Please try to keep your story straight.
Quote
Ya'll keep patting each other on the back and agreeing and keep paying for something that is free.
Whatever, dude. You just go ahead, keep on driving on the left when everybody else is driving on the right. I'm staying the hell out of your way.

 

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