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Author Topic: Arc Flash and Free Energy  (Read 20020 times)

Offline Feynman

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Arc Flash and Free Energy
« on: February 19, 2014, 03:05:40 AM »
Over the weekend, I accidentally shorted out a sound amplifier and experienced an arc flash about 5" from my eyes.

This got me thinking -- check this out:

"An arc flash is the light and heat produced from an electric arc supplied with sufficient electrical energy to cause substantial damage, harm, fire, or injury. Electrical arcs experience negative resistance, which causes the electrical resistance to decrease as the arc temperature increases. Therefore, as the arc develops and gets hotter the resistance drops, drawing more and more current (runaway) until some part of the system melts, trips, or evaporates, providing enough distance to break the circuit and extinguish the arc."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc_flash

An arc flash can easily have as much energy as 1lb of TNT  and have temperatures far hotter than the Sun.

What does an "arc flash" have to do with the "spark gap" we see in Tesla devices?  Could it be the the phenomenon of electrical discharge through gas (aka possibly plasma), in particular discharge through nitrogen, oxygen, or the noble gases, have something to do with free energy?

That is, why is it as more current flows through the air that it behaves as a 'negative resistor'?  Could it be because somehow plasma and free energy are linked through phenomenon of 'negative resistors'?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_resistance

"Negative resistance is a property of some electric circuits where an increase in the current entering a port results in a decreased voltage across the same port. This is in contrast to a simple ohmic resistor, which exhibits an increase in voltage under the same conditions. Negative resistors are theoretical and do not exist as a discrete component. However, some types of diodes (e.g., tunnel diodes) can be built that exhibit negative resistance in some part of their operating range. Such a differential negative resistance is illustrated in Figure 1 with a resonant-tunneling diode. Electric discharges through gases exhibit negative resistance, and some chalcogenide glasses,[1] organic semiconductors, and conductive polymers exhibit a similar region of negative resistance as a bulk property."

Just some thoughts.

-Feynman

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Arc Flash and Free Energy
« on: February 19, 2014, 03:05:40 AM »

Offline thx1138

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Re: Arc Flash and Free Energy
« Reply #1 on: February 19, 2014, 04:05:19 AM »
A spark gap is more like a semiconductor than a negative resistor. A semiconductor is defined as a material that is an insulator under one set of conditions and a conductor under another set of conditions. At a high enough voltage the air or gas in the spark gap that is normally an insulator breaks down and begins conducting. It was the transistor of Tesla's day.
The resistance goes down because the gas is basically exploded out of the gap so the medium is thinner. The same as electricity conducts better in thinner gases like in a vacuum tube. That doesn't mean it goes negative. It just goes down. And the resistance doesn't rise with the heat because there is nothing there to heat.

The space between the elctrodes determines how much voltage is required to jump the gap, i.e. the thicker the insulator, the higher the required voltage. As long as the voltage is maintained you have an arc, not a spark. That's how arc lights and arc welders work.

Note that the tunneling diode is a differential negative resistor meaning it is not truly a negative resistance but is negative in relation to what one would expect it to be - differential.
Plasmas are truly interesting stuff - the fourth form of matter. It is neither solid, liquid, nor gas but has properties of all the other three. One interesting phenomena is that sufficiently intense sparks cause what is know as "electron cascade" where electrons are freed from the medium between the electrodes.

Note also that this is basically lightning but on a realtively tiny scale.

I spent some time around a camp fire with a nuclear engineer last December and we got into plasmas a little. His basic take was, "Plasmas are really hard to grasp." He was speaking intellectually! Don't try to grab one :o

Offline thx1138

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Re: Arc Flash and Free Energy
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2014, 04:44:00 PM »
Above should be "electron avalanche" rather than "electron cascade".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_avalanche

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Arc Flash and Free Energy
« Reply #2 on: February 19, 2014, 04:44:00 PM »
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Offline e2matrix

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Re: Arc Flash and Free Energy
« Reply #3 on: February 19, 2014, 07:40:21 PM »
I've come across a lot of references to the concept that an arc or spark gap is needed to generate excess energy.   A lot of devices claiming free energy use this and I suspect even some motors with brushes may get some extra from this concept.

Offline forest

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Re: Arc Flash and Free Energy
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2014, 08:34:54 PM »
Not really, they take electrons , not energy.I know because Tesla said , it's a wrong way to consider arc as energy source. Read carefully his interview.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Arc Flash and Free Energy
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2014, 08:34:54 PM »
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Offline thx1138

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Re: Arc Flash and Free Energy
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2014, 11:17:20 PM »
Spark gaps will enable you to do some interesting things but I've never heard that they produce any excess energy. They will enable you to switch kilo and mega volts which is all but impossible using any other low cost methods. You can also get some interesting effects with quenched spark gaps which gives the pulse a very fast fall time. Another of the things you can do is uni-directional impulses. Unlike diodes they can be run without any reverse leakage. I think Tesla managed to get from 95% to 98% efficiencies out of some of his devices using spark gaps which was phenonomal for his day and in many cases is still phenonomal today.
 
But they have their down sides also. The electrodes constantly get burned away so they need constant attention to keep them tuned although Tesla overcame large parts of this problem. And they require very high voltages to work so they are dangerous. You are literally taking your life in your hands when you are dealing with high voltage spark gaps. A moment's inattention can kill you.

Offline dieter

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Re: Arc Flash and Free Energy
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2014, 01:26:19 AM »
Just made some tests, after reading about "charge pump" and radiant energy receiver. It was said, the secret lies within the spark, that would "suck" additional current out of the ground.


Anyway, I had a 1500vdc Moskito killer circuit, that made nice little sparks from 10 to 100hz, stepped up to maybe 5000 vac, connected as seen on tesla patent drawings, added an additional stepdown transformer with a rectifier, resulting in maybe 10 vdc max, at a few milliamps. No surprise the efficiency was bad, after such a lot of transformers. Anyway, the point is, it delivered slightly more current when I disconnected teslas receiver and ground connection. Maybe I did it wrong.


BTW. somebody said, there ain't no back emf losses with spark gaps. I guess that ain't true because: the back emf has usually a higher voltage than the forward current, so it will most likely jump back, when thrown from a collapsing field. Second: forward sparks are blue, back emf spark is yellow, actually red, but appears to be yellow like kelvin2700 bulbs... when both takes place, then the spark color will be purple! so you can easily see what's going on.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Arc Flash and Free Energy
« Reply #6 on: February 20, 2014, 01:26:19 AM »
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Offline pix

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Re: Arc Flash and Free Energy
« Reply #7 on: February 20, 2014, 01:42:46 AM »
Consider an arc as " electron multiplying device", electron avalanche, energy multiplicator.
It is like chain reaction.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Townsend_discharge

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relativistic_runaway_electron_avalanche

Look also for papers by  Loeb and Meck.
Take for example small capacitor charged to high potential and then allowed to discharge throug air gap.
[size=78%]Small number of electrons, accelerated by electric field through air gap liberate so many electrons, that at the end of discharge current reaches region of kAmps.[/size]
Those electrons wasn't originally sitting inside that condenser. They has been "dragged" from the outside enviroment.
Pass them through inductive element .
Spark discharges are very interesting....


Regards,
Pix

Offline Google

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Re: Arc Flash and Free Energy
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2014, 05:06:19 AM »
@ feynman

Tesla had made a device that worked on spark gap to generate excess energy by ionising the air. He never patented it. Here is one setup of the same described by PJ Kelly :

Chapter 11, first device.

http://frienergi.alternativkanalen.com/Chapt11.html

I have not come across any experiment so far, on the internet, which demonstrates such a concept, but who knows.

If you have the right equipment, its worth a try.

Best

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Arc Flash and Free Energy
« Reply #8 on: February 20, 2014, 05:06:19 AM »
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Offline dieter

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Re: Arc Flash and Free Energy
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2014, 01:43:11 PM »
Pix. sounds good, but also more like a theory. Anx simple test setup plans? I got caps, sparks...


Tho, I have noticed my digi voltmeter in amp mode completely freaked out sporadicly when I was messing around with the probe pins, showing >2amps (or whatever above the 2 amp range), probably caused by accidently shortening the circuit before the transformer, but I couldn't reproduce it in a controlled way.

Offline thx1138

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Re: Arc Flash and Free Energy
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2014, 04:29:39 PM »
@ feynman

Tesla had made a device that worked on spark gap to generate excess energy by ionising the air. He never patented it. Here is one setup of the same described by PJ Kelly :

Chapter 11, first device.

http://frienergi.alternativkanalen.com/Chapt11.html

I have not come across any experiment so far, on the internet, which demonstrates such a concept, but who knows.

If you have the right equipment, its worth a try.

Best
Like the second device following it in PJK Chapter 11, the 1st device would have to use a spark that was strong enough to generate ionizing radiation. That, I think, is what Tesla was feeling in his experiments with the exploding wire that caused the stinging sensation and would penetrate everything in the room and charge capacitors on a workbench on the other side of the room. I don't remember the exact dates of those experiments but I'm pretty sure it was before he developed his X-ray tubes and, generally, was before ionizing radiation was known to exist.
 
Tesla came to believe that cosmic rays were what made radioactive materials radio active and that if the materials could be shield from the cosmic rays, which they can't, they would no longer be radioactive.
 
So be aware that what you are talking about is radiation and take appropriate measures to ensure your safety.
 
 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Arc Flash and Free Energy
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2014, 04:29:39 PM »
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Offline Google

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Re: Arc Flash and Free Energy
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2014, 04:40:14 PM »
Hi

In that case every spark gap in ordinary tesla coils also produce dangerous alpha beta gamma radiations. Has anyone put a gieger counter near a strong spark gap / arc flash ? Just curious.

Best

Offline thx1138

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Re: Arc Flash and Free Energy
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2014, 05:06:58 PM »
Hi

In that case every spark gap in ordinary tesla coils also produce dangerous alpha beta gamma radiations. Has anyone put a gieger counter near a strong spark gap / arc flash ? Just curious.

Best
No, not at all because they shouldn't be strong enough to generate ionizing radiation. But to produce anything that would capture energy like shown in the PJK Chapter 11 that is what you would have to do. Keep in mind that Tesla spoke in his later years of developing a system that could develop unlimited voltages, i.e. 50 to 100 million volts and over.
 
I doubt that the sparks in Tesla coil spark gaps would even generate alpha, much less beta or gamma, radiation. Of course it never hurts to check.

Offline dieter

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Re: Arc Flash and Free Energy
« Reply #13 on: February 21, 2014, 01:26:10 AM »
As far as my information goes, you need 15kV or more to get such rays. After reading about the townsend avalanche phenomen, I guess in the right gas and pressure, you can get it with relative low voltage. But in early experiments, rays were used to cause the ionisation, like a röntgen cannon. I don't think that's neccessary.


The experiment was like: two opposing plates (a cap!) build a gas tank in which the action takes place. Regardless how the ionisation was actually caused, it was reported that there were extremly high currents during chanches of the plate distance (variable cap, with breaktrough feature), and that in a gas underpressure situation a lower voltage was required.


Based on that I had the following idea: Two plates, airtight sealed with rubberstripes along the edges, airgap between them like 1mm or so. Now, as the supply delivers voltage, it's cap has to recharge after every spark, resulting in a spark pulse, eg. 30hz. Imagine there are electromagnets on both sides of the doubleplate, the current flows trough them, maybe only partially, result: the distance between the plates vibrates with the pulsrate, causing the capacitance change as well as the underpressure that is needed.


I have to try that asap. Need two good plates, sparks are about 2000 deg. C. and will melt Aluminum easily.


Offline pix

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Re: Arc Flash and Free Energy
« Reply #14 on: February 21, 2014, 03:51:50 AM »
@Dieter
Some interesting to read attached.By logic, at the end of process you have more electrons that you start with at the cost of electric field ( potential difference).I'ts like chain reaction in open system. Does anybody read the current AFTER spark gap?
Additionally, you have "radiant event" from the electric discharge in the form of radiation-look for Edwin Gray conversion tube.


Regards,
Pix

 

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