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Author Topic: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2  (Read 83953 times)

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #210 on: January 03, 2017, 04:55:25 PM »
More .............

Please find the 4 attached png files

              floor

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #211 on: January 03, 2017, 05:06:25 PM »
Or just use the moving magnets to influence coils that charge caps ,and then dump the caps to get by the sticky spot.
I don't think anything is impossible.
artv
You can charge capacitors using magnets and coils. In general a generator that deliver energy into capacitors. The energy needed to do this is given from the capacitance and the voltage. Considering the resistance in the coil, the loss from eddy currents, and magnetic hysteresis, you must add more energ to the rotor, than the energy you put into the capacitor. This loss due to complexity into the system will lower the efficiency compared to not using capacitors at all.


@Floor
You are right about the topic. No need to counter fight the ideas. I will stop doing that now, and whish you good luck instead ;-)
I would however strongly recommend that you build it to see how it really works. Theories remains theories as long they are not tested in real life. Only then you can accept the theory as right or false.


Vidar

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #212 on: January 03, 2017, 08:18:34 PM »
@LowQ

See the photos at

http://overunity.com/14311/work-from-2-magnets-19-output-2/msg489549/#msg489549

Give me some real questions / ideas, related to the TD unit and I will be glad to chat.

                              regards
                                    floor

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #213 on: January 03, 2017, 08:37:03 PM »
@LowQ

See the photos at

http://overunity.com/14311/work-from-2-magnets-19-output-2/msg489549/#msg489549

Give me some real questions / ideas, related to the TD unit and I will be glad to chat.

                              regards
                                    floor
Oh, sorry. I have been watching this thread before, but totally forgot what it was all about. So I totally missed out that you actually have built and built all the time. Keep it up. Nice to see that someone actualy is building something :-)


I have no ideas or questions to add this far.


Vidar

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #214 on: January 04, 2017, 09:21:53 PM »
@All interested

I'm not very concerned that the correct work formulas have not been applied
up to this point, of if they continue to be.

But here is a description of a method of calculating joules
when the force applied changes non uniformly over distance.

              cheers
                    floor

Offline lumen

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #215 on: January 05, 2017, 01:00:48 AM »
@floor

I changed my testing setup to be more ridgid and altered the process order of recording the data along with a new digital force guage and now the findings are closer to what I expected.
The tests that once indicated a gain of over 13% were repeated along with several other interactions that I thought would indicate a path of gain and at this time nothing has shown a gain of over 3% and in fact the test results varied from about +2.5% to a -2.5% depending on the test.
To me, the results indicate no gain with any path I have tested so far.
Next I plan to setup for the TD data collection and hope the data indicates a different result.
I will be using neo's which may have a different result than your findings with ceramic magnets, but it's a good place to start.




Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #216 on: January 05, 2017, 02:04:57 AM »
@Webby

It is  0.27925  mm of weight travel per degree on my device.

        thanks

Also I reworked the first page of my last PNG file post (two pages)  I think it's
statemennt is more clearly made now.  I could use  feed back on it.
The reworked version of page 1 is posted below.

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #217 on: January 05, 2017, 02:15:19 AM »
@Lumen

wow sounds fantastic !
Thanks for the up date. 

Would you mind starting / dedicating a new topic to your
next test sets ?

Lumens TD test or name it as you like ?

                  regards
                       floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #218 on: January 05, 2017, 02:19:29 AM »
@Norman6538

Thanks Norman.

Lets keep figureing it out.

                 floor

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #219 on: January 05, 2017, 07:04:35 AM »
@floor

I changed my testing setup to be more ridgid and altered the process order of recording the data along with a new digital force guage and now the findings are closer to what I expected.
The tests that once indicated a gain of over 13% were repeated along with several other interactions that I thought would indicate a path of gain and at this time nothing has shown a gain of over 3% and in fact the test results varied from about +2.5% to a -2.5% depending on the test.
To me, the results indicate no gain with any path I have tested so far.
Next I plan to setup for the TD data collection and hope the data indicates a different result.
I will be using neo's which may have a different result than your findings with ceramic magnets, but it's a good place to start.
+/- 2.5% sounds reasonable. That just means the measurements are made properly, and typical output is in average 0 - as expected with a closed loop system.


Vidar

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #220 on: June 25, 2021, 06:54:20 PM »
This design and exploration was long winded, Not O.U.,
riddled with errors.

Still a good learning experience, worth while and very messy.

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #221 on: December 22, 2021, 06:05:14 AM »
This kind of device lifts more weight a greater distance than
is input into it
      as
a lighter weight is lowered a shorter distance.

The output work is a little more than twice the input work.

Strictly speaking there is   no   net work done.

The work output is undone in resetting the device back to its starting
position.

But the work input is also undone.

            Zero    net   work in    and    zero   net   work out.

It can also be linked to a second unit (like itself) that operates at a larger scale.

A series of the devices can be linked so that the scale of the final output is
many times larger than the initial input (10x  or 100x ?).  But, I'm pretty certain that
there is a maximum  /  limit to which this cascading effect can be done.
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...

If the "out put" weight object  were a magnet being lowered through a wire coil
(the magnet's fall   is   the reset), that weight object would still fall to its lowered /
start position even when a resistive load is placed across the coil.  A capacitive load
across the coil would be problematic.

I'm pretty sure ...
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
Again

Using this device (the twist drive)

a heavier weight is lifted by a lighter weight lowering a little more than
1/2 the distance the heavier weight is lifted.   It uses magnets to do this.

This process can be done repetitively, and even when done in an
                   escalating cascade of the devices,
                                  as long as
 the process is reversed at the end of the cascade,
                        as a deescalating cascade.
                       @     https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7b3x9a

                      an other design posted by synchro 1
                        @     https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xOBZsCWMDzI
« Last Edit: January 02, 2022, 08:39:25 PM by Floor »

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #222 on: December 27, 2021, 05:00:09 PM »
Here, in this video, 133 grams is lifted 41.5 units of distance
by the lowering of 115 grams 22 units of distance.

A lifting distance ratio of 1.886 to 1
           and
A  weight difference ratio of 1.156 to 1.

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7b3or5

If I had subtracted the weight of the SL thread tensioning weight,
while also adding the input weight in decreasing increments...

The average force over the 22 units of input travel distance whould be
about 85 grams ?

A  weight difference ratio of 1.564 to 1 ?  not 1.156 to 1
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
It is interesting to note that the 22 units of travel distance upon the
input / sliding unit has remained the same in both demonstrations.

      however ....

In the        previous       video / demo, input is 105 grams by 22 units of  travel
         and
output is 115 grams by 40 units of travel

A lifting distance ratio of  1.818 to 1
           and
A  weight difference ratio of 1.095 to 1
...
In the         present         video, 133 grams is lifted 41.5 units of distance
by the lowering of 115 grams 22 units of distance.

A lifting distance ratio of 1.886 to 1
           and
A  weight difference ratio of 1.156 to 1.

Slightly stronger magnets are used in the second video.


Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #223 on: December 30, 2021, 02:54:56 PM »
                                  Big edit

So....

Wouldn't this be more mechanical work out than mechanical work in...

if a series of escalating, cascading "twist drive" units, caused the cyclical
raising and then lowering of 5 kg by 0.5 m ...

as a result of a cyclical input, as the raising and then lowering of 100 g by 5 mm ?
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
                       If the "out put" weight object is lowered into water,
                                     ( the object's fall   is   the reset),
                                    that weight object would    not   fall.
                                                           because
                         the buoyancy is constant and would continuously counter act 
                                                  the downward force.
                                                               but
         If the "out put" weight object is    a magnet     being lowered through a wire coil
                                         (again the magnet's fall   is   the reset)
                            that magnet would still fall to its lowered / start position
                                even when a resistive load is placed across the coil.
                                                             because
                        The magnet's fall is resisted only while the magnet is in motion
                                                             therefore
                                             that resistance is not continuous
                                                                 and
                                  the magnet will accelerate and then slow down
                                           again and again during its descent
                                                                  but
                                           it will still reach the bottom of its fall
                                                                   and
                                      this will generate electric power from the coil
... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
                                                        As acknowledgment...
                                        It was an other who suggested the use of
                                                        this type of generator

EDIT / ADDITION                              This was years ago !

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #224 on: December 31, 2021, 03:27:42 PM »
                                      Can time be traded for energy ?

Some of you may have all ready noticed these things but please
bear with me in order that others may come to understand the
point here.

For clarity please note that the "output" weight object is the one that
hangs from the rotating magnet pulley.  Also note, the reason I will
sometimes enclose the words "input" and "output" in quotation marks,
is that there is no    net   work done in either the input, nor in the output
actions, during the course of a full cycling of the device. That work is
canceled out.

If Isaac Newton's observation are correct (they are) then the energy
exchanged in the actions of the twist drive device must balance to
zero (they do).

Which is pretty much the same as to say, that within the context of the
twist drive ...

In order for the twist drive to be reset to its starting position,     all     of
the energy present as the falling of the output weight object     must   be
utilized in the resetting action. 
                                    This     is   valid and...
If any of the energy of the falling of the output weight object
          is used to do work, outside of the twist drive mechanism its self,
               the twist drive cannot reset to its starting position.

This remains true, even though the "output" work is more than two times
greater than the "input" work.

Question ...
       Is the net gain from the magnets or from gravity ?

 P.S.
             This is not theoretical.

           best wishes
                  and
                     thanks y'all
                              floor

           
« Last Edit: January 01, 2022, 05:33:09 PM by Floor »