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Author Topic: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2  (Read 68210 times)

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #165 on: October 28, 2016, 10:53:02 PM »
Ok:
The magnetism from the coil will align the magnetic polarity of the atoms in the iron in the same direction. This will increase the magnetic flux density through the core. This magnetic flux that exits the iron core is still attracting the iron, so the flux density is very much focused in the close vicinity of the iron, and want to take the shortest path back in to the south pole of the iron core.


This will cause the flux density to be very strong at the poles, tens, maybe hundereds times stronger. However, this increased magnetic flux density have its price. The flux doesn't reach as far any more, because they are to busy with the iron core.


The two iron plates is the reason why closet door magnets are so strong, but doesn't shut the closet door when it is too open. The magnetic flux is virtually jumping directly to the other iron plate on the other side of the magnet, making the closet door magnet weak on distance but very strong when the door is closed, and keep it there until a strong force opens the door, but the door does not even have to move a millimeter before you can open the door with ease.


The conclusion is that the flux density increase with the iron core, but the total available magnetism does not increase. Just focused. You can test this by using two air core coils, and power them up, and then face equal poles close to eachother. The magnetic field is escaping the gap between the coils as a very dense magnetic flux without an iron core, but the total available magnetism hasn't changed a bit.


Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #165 on: October 28, 2016, 10:53:02 PM »

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #166 on: October 30, 2016, 08:45:13 AM »
@Low-Q

The goal of this topic is the presentation of replications of the measurement process / experiment.

I do not agree with your interpretations of the information at http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/magnetic/elemag.html .   

Also I do not find your choice of wording to be concise enough to allow for a meaningful response
on my part.

except that

I do not agree with your conclusions.

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #167 on: October 30, 2016, 09:44:45 PM »
@Low-Q

The goal of this topic is the presentation of replications of the measurement process / experiment.

I do not agree with your interpretations of the information at http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/magnetic/elemag.html .   

Also I do not find your choice of wording to be concise enough to allow for a meaningful response
on my part.

except that

I do not agree with your conclusions.
The link you posted doesn't work.


Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #167 on: October 30, 2016, 09:44:45 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #168 on: October 30, 2016, 11:49:07 PM »
@Low-q

That link Is working now.  (it's the same old link)

I think you have brought up, good questions.  The ultimate answers to
which, I may have no answers ? 

I apologize that I am distracted these recent days. An old friend is soon to pass on.
He and the family, need a little support at this time.
.........................................

1. Assume I place a magnetic compass at a distance from an electrically energized coil, which is producing
a magnetic force.
At some distance (millimeters m) the compass needle deflects some amount (degrees d).

2. Assume I add an appropriate (magnetically soft and normally un-magnetized) iron core to center of
this energized coil.
At the distance (millimeters m) the compass will now deflect > (degrees d).
              or
the compass needle will now deflect (deflection d), but while compass needle is at
> (millimeters m)

I hope this some kind of a useful answer.

                     best wishes
                                floor


PS
I wold like to start a new topic, which if specifically for these info s, ideas, and theories,
while leaving this topic to be specifically for actual measurements, and examinations of the methods and devices
of those measurements ?

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #169 on: October 31, 2016, 08:38:06 PM »
@Floor


Sorry to hear about your old friend. It's hard to keep a clear mind in hard times. My best whishes for you, your friend and his family.
---

Sounds like a good idea you have about the compass. I will do this experiment too. I think I will add a spring to the compass (Just made by a couple of neos), so it is possible to get an indication of the forces from some distance - with and without the iron core.
I will assume the compass will just smash into the iron core at close up measurements. If you don't mind I can post my findings in your new thread.


Vidar

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #169 on: October 31, 2016, 08:38:06 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #170 on: November 01, 2016, 02:16:48 AM »
The new topic is called

                Magnets, motion and measurement

                       floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #171 on: November 05, 2016, 09:13:14 PM »
Please find the attached file "pasThru 2"

The design and method is given into the public domain.

It requires less work to position the rotating magnet between the
other magnets, than the work which can be done by the rotation.

                                     floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #171 on: November 05, 2016, 09:13:14 PM »
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Offline ramset

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #172 on: November 18, 2016, 01:23:26 PM »
Floor
Much respect and appreciation for your hard work [years] and selfless open source example, you inspire the replication/replicators

you mention a measurement thread above, can you post a Link ?


respectfully
Chet K


Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #173 on: November 18, 2016, 05:42:37 PM »
@Ramset


TD replications
Is for presentations of "TD" replications.



Magnets, motion and measurement
is for theory and practices  and so on.

Thanks.  Lets see if it all pans out.
                           floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #173 on: November 18, 2016, 05:42:37 PM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #174 on: November 18, 2016, 05:56:36 PM »

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #175 on: December 04, 2016, 06:26:01 AM »
The TD (twist drive) is not a motor per say, in that it does not
produce a continuous rotation in the rotating magnet / magnets.

Neither does it give rise to an infinite linear motion.

However the TD machines are not simply / or only measuring devices.
They are useful machines, with useful mechanical out put, which can
is work done as either a liner motion or as work done as rotation.

The TD machine variations are functioning converters of either,
 linear motion to rotational motion or rotational motion to linear motion.

They are based upon 90 degree, near 90 degree, and reciprocating interactions
which by there very nature, arrest momentum.

These momentum arresting  interactions are (I believe) integral to its O.U functioning.

My measurements show that,  depending upon various magnet alignments, shapes
and motion interactions,  the TD can give more mechanical work out than is put in to it,
even when the work done to reset the movements to their starting positions is accounted for.

All of these designs, methods and devicements for the TD machines are given into the public domain.

   please find the attached PDF file which contains my most recent explanations and machine description.

                                                 floor

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #175 on: December 04, 2016, 06:26:01 AM »
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Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #176 on: December 15, 2016, 07:54:07 PM »
Some interaction descriptions.

   floor

Offline norman6538

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #177 on: December 15, 2016, 09:05:02 PM »
Nice drawings Floor but this factor always got me stuck.
 1. closer stronger and
2. further weaker.
 3. two sides that have forces to be accounted for....

In my work I have found those three factors make things very difficult.
The Echlin thing is an example of that.


Keep trying with this in mind though.

Norman

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #178 on: December 16, 2016, 03:20:05 AM »
@Norman6538

Yep

It can get pretty confusing with all of the changes...  changing force of rotation with each degree,
changing force of sliding with each mm, changing direction of sliding, changing direction of rotation.

None of the forces are constant (they are increasing or decreasing) throughout the motions .

During the measuring process, there are 4 distinct inputs of work.  The largest
input (in reverse) generally being considered as the "output"

My goal, originally, was to have the RO..tation as out put and the SL..ider
as input,

The latest variation of the unit is to finally.... give this result.

Some energy could be stored as rotation, by use of a ratcheting
fly wheel as Webby suggests.

But energy spent on acceleration is already usable / used / can be used as
expenditure of momentum, in some of the TD motions.even though there are
reversing motions.

    regards
             floor

Offline Floor

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #179 on: December 16, 2016, 03:20:47 PM »
@ Lumen @ Luc

Do either of you feel ready to make some kind of interim summation
of your TD investigations ?

@all readers
                  Still looking for the error / s.              12/16/2016
..........................................................................
           below are
What to me, may be, unanswered feed back / critical input  to date.
and which was based upon examinations of

a. the measuring devices used
b. measurement procedures followed
c. mathematical  processes

and which also, are not already addressed and / or possibly incompletely
addressed.

     from

1. ConradElectro - measurements simply show the difference
in friction between RO and SL actions ?

2. Floor - Miss application of the force integration process in general ?

3. Floor- Unequal effect / application of the law of diminishing returns upon
RO as compared to SL ? 

4. Lumen - back side influence ?

5. DrJones - incomplete conversion of the actions into joules ?

6. GoToLuc - math error ?

7. Webby - ?

...................................................................
Floor is continuing testing, Lumen intends to do further testing,
GoToLuc's testing is also, as yet incomplete.
...................................................................
@Lumen  I would like to see a topic dedicated to your TD replication.
as "Lumen's TD replication" or the like, and maybe copy your data,
graphs, photos etc. to that new topic ?

                       regards
                              floor

 

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