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Author Topic: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2  (Read 99767 times)

Floor

  • Guest
Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #165 on: October 30, 2016, 08:45:13 AM »
@Low-Q

The goal of this topic is the presentation of replications of the measurement process / experiment.

I do not agree with your interpretations of the information at http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/magnetic/elemag.html .   

Also I do not find your choice of wording to be concise enough to allow for a meaningful response
on my part.

except that

I do not agree with your conclusions.

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #166 on: October 30, 2016, 09:44:45 PM »
@Low-Q

The goal of this topic is the presentation of replications of the measurement process / experiment.

I do not agree with your interpretations of the information at http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/magnetic/elemag.html .   

Also I do not find your choice of wording to be concise enough to allow for a meaningful response
on my part.

except that

I do not agree with your conclusions.
The link you posted doesn't work.


Vidar

Floor

  • Guest
Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #167 on: October 30, 2016, 11:49:07 PM »
@Low-q

That link Is working now.  (it's the same old link)

I think you have brought up, good questions.  The ultimate answers to
which, I may have no answers ? 

I apologize that I am distracted these recent days. An old friend is soon to pass on.
He and the family, need a little support at this time.
.........................................

1. Assume I place a magnetic compass at a distance from an electrically energized coil, which is producing
a magnetic force.
At some distance (millimeters m) the compass needle deflects some amount (degrees d).

2. Assume I add an appropriate (magnetically soft and normally un-magnetized) iron core to center of
this energized coil.
At the distance (millimeters m) the compass will now deflect > (degrees d).
              or
the compass needle will now deflect (deflection d), but while compass needle is at
> (millimeters m)

I hope this some kind of a useful answer.

                     best wishes
                                floor


PS
I wold like to start a new topic, which if specifically for these info s, ideas, and theories,
while leaving this topic to be specifically for actual measurements, and examinations of the methods and devices
of those measurements ?

Offline Low-Q

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #168 on: October 31, 2016, 08:38:06 PM »
@Floor


Sorry to hear about your old friend. It's hard to keep a clear mind in hard times. My best whishes for you, your friend and his family.
---

Sounds like a good idea you have about the compass. I will do this experiment too. I think I will add a spring to the compass (Just made by a couple of neos), so it is possible to get an indication of the forces from some distance - with and without the iron core.
I will assume the compass will just smash into the iron core at close up measurements. If you don't mind I can post my findings in your new thread.


Vidar

Floor

  • Guest
Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #169 on: November 01, 2016, 02:16:48 AM »
The new topic is called

                Magnets, motion and measurement

                       floor

Floor

  • Guest
Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #170 on: November 05, 2016, 09:13:14 PM »
Please find the attached file "pasThru 2"

The design and method is given into the public domain.

It requires less work to position the rotating magnet between the
other magnets, than the work which can be done by the rotation.

                                     floor

Offline ramset

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #171 on: November 18, 2016, 01:23:26 PM »
Floor
Much respect and appreciation for your hard work [years] and selfless open source example, you inspire the replication/replicators

you mention a measurement thread above, can you post a Link ?


respectfully
Chet K


Floor

  • Guest
Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #172 on: November 18, 2016, 05:42:37 PM »
@Ramset


TD replications
Is for presentations of "TD" replications.



Magnets, motion and measurement
is for theory and practices  and so on.

Thanks.  Lets see if it all pans out.
                           floor

Floor

  • Guest
Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #173 on: November 18, 2016, 05:56:36 PM »

Floor

  • Guest
Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #174 on: December 04, 2016, 06:26:01 AM »
The TD (twist drive) is not a motor per say, in that it does not
produce a continuous rotation in the rotating magnet / magnets.

Neither does it give rise to an infinite linear motion.

However the TD machines are not simply / or only measuring devices.
They are useful machines, with useful mechanical out put, which can
is work done as either a liner motion or as work done as rotation.

The TD machine variations are functioning converters of either,
 linear motion to rotational motion or rotational motion to linear motion.

They are based upon 90 degree, near 90 degree, and reciprocating interactions
which by there very nature, arrest momentum.

These momentum arresting  interactions are (I believe) integral to its O.U functioning.

My measurements show that,  depending upon various magnet alignments, shapes
and motion interactions,  the TD can give more mechanical work out than is put in to it,
even when the work done to reset the movements to their starting positions is accounted for.

All of these designs, methods and devicements for the TD machines are given into the public domain.

   please find the attached PDF file which contains my most recent explanations and machine description.

                                                 floor

Floor

  • Guest
Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #175 on: December 15, 2016, 07:54:07 PM »
Some interaction descriptions.

   floor

Offline norman6538

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #176 on: December 15, 2016, 09:05:02 PM »
Nice drawings Floor but this factor always got me stuck.
 1. closer stronger and
2. further weaker.
 3. two sides that have forces to be accounted for....

In my work I have found those three factors make things very difficult.
The Echlin thing is an example of that.


Keep trying with this in mind though.

Norman

Floor

  • Guest
Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #177 on: December 16, 2016, 03:20:05 AM »
@Norman6538

Yep

It can get pretty confusing with all of the changes...  changing force of rotation with each degree,
changing force of sliding with each mm, changing direction of sliding, changing direction of rotation.

None of the forces are constant (they are increasing or decreasing) throughout the motions .

During the measuring process, there are 4 distinct inputs of work.  The largest
input (in reverse) generally being considered as the "output"

My goal, originally, was to have the RO..tation as out put and the SL..ider
as input,

The latest variation of the unit is to finally.... give this result.

Some energy could be stored as rotation, by use of a ratcheting
fly wheel as Webby suggests.

But energy spent on acceleration is already usable / used / can be used as
expenditure of momentum, in some of the TD motions.even though there are
reversing motions.

    regards
             floor

Floor

  • Guest
Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #178 on: December 16, 2016, 03:20:47 PM »
@ Lumen @ Luc

Do either of you feel ready to make some kind of interim summation
of your TD investigations ?

@all readers
                  Still looking for the error / s.              12/16/2016
..........................................................................
           below are
What to me, may be, unanswered feed back / critical input  to date.
and which was based upon examinations of

a. the measuring devices used
b. measurement procedures followed
c. mathematical  processes

and which also, are not already addressed and / or possibly incompletely
addressed.

     from

1. ConradElectro - measurements simply show the difference
in friction between RO and SL actions ?

2. Floor - Miss application of the force integration process in general ?

3. Floor- Unequal effect / application of the law of diminishing returns upon
RO as compared to SL ? 

4. Lumen - back side influence ?

5. DrJones - incomplete conversion of the actions into joules ?

6. GoToLuc - math error ?

7. Webby - ?

...................................................................
Floor is continuing testing, Lumen intends to do further testing,
GoToLuc's testing is also, as yet incomplete.
...................................................................
@Lumen  I would like to see a topic dedicated to your TD replication.
as "Lumen's TD replication" or the like, and maybe copy your data,
graphs, photos etc. to that new topic ?

                       regards
                              floor

Offline gotoluc

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Re: Work from 2 magnets > 19% output 2
« Reply #179 on: December 17, 2016, 04:24:46 PM »
@ Lumen @ Luc

Do either of you feel ready to make some kind of interim summation
of your TD investigations ?

                       regards
                              floor


Hi floor

I'm still experimenting with different magnet geometry before I start building the 2nd test device.

As a quick interim summation I would say that the TD effect is very interesting to say the least. Definitely worthy to build and study compared to anything else on this site.
My tests always seems to score a greater output torque compared to input torque. My results were shared in the TD Replication topic.

Hopefully I'll have the second test device built in a week or so. This one will take more time to build then the first test device as it will rotate and hopefully have enough output torque gain to loop back to operate the input.

Hope this helps to summarize where I'm at to this point

Kind regards

Luc