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Author Topic: Acoustic magnetic generator.  (Read 91829 times)

Offline verpies

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #60 on: February 19, 2014, 11:45:38 AM »
Quote from: Davidson's "Acoustic-Magnetic Power Generator" patent
"Claim 1:

An acoustic magnetic power generator composed of an alternating current signal connected to an acoustic transducer which stimulates the core of a permanent magnet such that the atoms of the magnet are caused to vibrate which in turn causes the magnetic field to vibrate and causes a current and voltage to be generated in an output coil wrapped around a permanent magnet or in the magnetic field of the permanent magnet which said current and voltage can be used for powering a load".
In fact this claim is explicit that the causal chain of stimulation is:
acoustic transducer --> atoms of the magnet --> magnetic field --> output coil --> voltage&current.


The conjunction "or" is there only to emphasize that the output coil does not have to be wrapped around the permanent magnet in order to be within the influence of the magnetic field generated by this permanent magnet.

From the Davidson patent:...
"The combined effect of the acoustic signal and the stimulating coil increases the efficiency of permanent magnet induction transformers".
This quote refers to TWO separate effects:
1) An acoustic stimulation of the ferromagnetic core
2) A magnetic stimulation of the ferromagnetic core.

Those two effects are stated to work in synergy for increased efficiency, but it does not mean that the acoustic stimulation of the core can be omitted.

The pure acoustic stimulation of the core is depicted in Fig.1 and Fig.2 of the patent.  In those figures the acoustic transducer is in physical contact with the core - not merely within the influence of its magnetic field.
Only Fig.3 and 4 add a second method to stimulate the core for improved efficiency... but it does not subtract the first method !

The patent is explicit that even in Fig.3 the acoustic field must be allowed to radiate into core (not into the magnetic field of the core):
Quote from: Davidson patent, Section: "DETAILED DESCRIPTION OF THE INVENTION"
The piezoelectric (1) is placed in close proximity to the permanent magnet (11) such that the acoustic field of the piezoelectric (1) can radiate into the permanent magnet material.

BTW: The magnetic field of Jimboot's transformer is contained inside the core, because the core is toroidal and forms a closed magnetic circuit.  Thus, the magnetic field in this core cannot even reach the piezo element, which is located outside of the core - not that it would matter anyway ...or be in accordance with the Davidson patent.

Again, from the Davidson patent:...
"When an alternating current signal generator is connected simultaneously to an acoustic transducer and a stimulating coil; whereby, both the acoustic transducer and the stimulating coil are located within the magnetic field of the magnet".
This is a quote from the patent's Preface and the author apparently did not put much effort to make it cogent.
This quote misleads the reader that the acoustic transducer does not need to transmit acoustic vibrations to the ferromagnetic core.
This is not only my opinion. The author tries to be more precise in the claim sections and contradicts himself on the same issue:
Quote from: Davidson's "Acoustic-Magnetic Power Generator" patent
Claim 4:
"A method of maximizing the efficiency of permanent magnet transformers by stimulating the core material of the
permanent magnet transformers with both an acoustic vibration and an electromagnetic signal simultaneously."

THE PUNCHLINE:
According to the Davidson patent, the acoustic transducer (e.g. piezo element) MUST transmit acoustic vibrations to the ferromagnetic core material and it is not sufficient for this transducer to be merely in the vicinity of the core. 
Also, it is not sufficient for the acoustic transducer to be merely within the influence of the magnetic field created by the core.

However, the output coil can be merely in the vicinity of the core, as long as the varying magnetic flux generated by the core reaches it and cuts its windings.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 01:46:07 PM by verpies »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #60 on: February 19, 2014, 11:45:38 AM »

Offline verpies

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #61 on: February 19, 2014, 12:55:15 PM »
Let me add that Jimboot wired a second piezo element in series with the first and tripled his output voltage!
Reply from Lasersaber to TK's new video:
"My scope showed .5V on the input before the transducer.  On the output side I found a sweet spot giving over 8 volts. 
Voltage is not power nor energy.
Voltage increase does not mean power increase.

My ball park COP calculation right now is 1:250!
How did you calculate that?
What is the maximum power output of this version of iPhone?
How much power is drawn by the load?

Offline verpies

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #62 on: February 19, 2014, 01:19:02 PM »
He demonstrated that his contraption didn't need a piezo transducer at four times the maximum acoustic frequency, and delivered zero output in the acoustic range
Why must the frequency be in the audio range?  Alas, acoustics does not need to operate in the audio frequency range.  Ultrasonics is still acoustics.
Tinsel used these high frequencies because his inductance was small, not out of malice.  If he had a bigger coil on hand then his frequencies would have been lower and in the audio range.

However Jimboot's system is only an electronic system - so the acoustic phenomena do not matter anyway. 
Jimboot's system is not magnetoacoustic because there is no acoustic stimulation of his core material. 
As such it is not even in accordance with the Davidson patent, which served as a model for Jimboot's device, AFAIK.

...which is what he set out to demonstrate as the chronic nauseating cynic he is. He shoot's from the hip at everyone and I hope I finally got to singe his tail feathers.
He might not be nice but as a scientist we have to pay attention to what he is writing, ...not how he is writing it.

The piezo circuit carries an exciter signal that's practically all voltage. There's no transformer level current running through it.
Capacitors behave the same way in LC circuits.  You need to measure the voltage across and current flowing through the piezo element to show that it indeed behaves differently.

The deception is that the piezo transducer is irrelevant in the circuit, and that it works the same when replaced by capacitors.
Jimboot just demonstrated that an additional transducer triples the voltage when making sound,
But that does not prove that a piezo works differently than a capacitor in that circuit.  Tinsel probably will make a 7th video which will demonstrate that an additional capacitor will also triple voltage at some point.  Then what?

BTW: Voltage is not power.  Voltage gain does not mean Power gain.
Also, in resonant LC circuits voltage is dependent on the value of capacitance and inductance, as shown below ...thus it is nothing unusual that changing the capacitance also changes the voltage.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #62 on: February 19, 2014, 01:19:02 PM »
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Offline tinman

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #63 on: February 19, 2014, 02:29:23 PM »
This sounds a little like the NMR and NAR project that was being carried out elsewhere.
I wonder how that ended up?. Ever seen what really happens to a wine glass when the right ARF is hit?.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE827gwnnk4

Offline Grumage

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #64 on: February 19, 2014, 03:16:57 PM »
Dear All.

Verpies suggested to me via PM that you guys and gall's might be interested in some of my findings using ultrasonic stimulation of a ferrite split core.

This is just one of a series of tests carried out using a very cheap Piezo transducer.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql2zfs5vevM

I have since purchased some 40 W industrial transducers to continue my experiments with. The results will follow sometime soon.

You will notice that stimulation can occur without even touching the ferrite core !! You will also note that the Piezo transducer is not connected in any way to the output coils !!

Cheers Grum.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #64 on: February 19, 2014, 03:16:57 PM »
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Offline Google

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #65 on: February 19, 2014, 03:22:18 PM »
Acoustic Mag Gen = Mag Resonance Amplifier  :D

Tinsel Koala is in the process of testing it, it would be interesting to watch his channel and it confirms what verpies has said.

Watch his videos here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYR9LqzY7VU

Best

By the way if its overunity, jimboot should be able to charge his iphone by looping the output back to his iphone charging socket.  :o

Offline verpies

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #66 on: February 19, 2014, 03:33:20 PM »
This sounds a little like the NMR and NAR project that was being carried out elsewhere.
I wonder how that ended up?. Ever seen what really happens to a wine glass when the right ARF is hit?.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BE827gwnnk4
It does. 
I always am amazed how much the glass can bend before it breaks.  I could not squeeze the glass so much in a vise statically.  It would break much earlier than the dynamic deformation shown on that video.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #66 on: February 19, 2014, 03:33:20 PM »
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Offline verpies

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #67 on: February 19, 2014, 03:37:39 PM »
Acoustic Mag Gen = Mag Resonance Amplifier  :D
Tinsel Koala is in the process of testing it, it would be interesting to watch his channel and it confirms what verpies has said.
Tinsel has gotten to Part 6 already.  See here.

Note that his experiments are only about the electronic circuit behavior.  Effectively an LC tank and a transformer.
He does not investigate the stimulation of the ferromagnetic core by acoustic pressure.  Jimboot does not either.

Offline verpies

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #68 on: February 19, 2014, 03:53:17 PM »
You will notice that stimulation can occur without even touching the ferrite core !!
Yes but that is because the acoustic pressure vibrates the core through air vibrations.  The closer the piezo gets to the core, the "louder" it sounds to the core. 

If a sound barrier is placed between the piezo and the core then the magnitude of the acoustic influence through air decreases.
Maybe Grumage will show that on his next video.

Even after witnessing the acoustic dampening effect of Grumage's plastic bag, it should be clear that the piezo does not influence the magnetic field of the core directly ...or the piezo is not influenced by magnetic field of the core at a distance. 

The piezo can influence the magnetic field only indirectly - through its influence on the core's atoms. 
It is the core that is primarily  responsible for the magnetic field and the core's material must be vibrated by the piezo either by direct contact or via air (the former is stronger).

Finally, note that magnetic fields are almost completely confined in closed cores (toroidal cores or C cores or E cores or Pot cores, etc..) so almost no magnetic fields exist outside of such cores and nonexistent fields cannot influence anything.

P.S.
A good sound barrier consists of a hard reflecting layer (e.g. a rigid pane of glass, bathroom tile) sandwiched with a soft absorbing layer (e.g. polyurethane foam).  A metal plate makes a good reflecting layer, too, but it is not good for the sound screening test because it disturbs varying magnetic fields.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #68 on: February 19, 2014, 03:53:17 PM »
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Offline Google

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #69 on: February 19, 2014, 03:59:33 PM »
@verpies, it would be better to take a bar magnet and first determine its natural resonant frequency by the method given below.

http://www.google.co.in/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=new%20ferrite%20rod%20frequency&source=video&cd=2&ved=0CDUQtwIwAQ&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DdU0YO_U945c&ei=FsUEU7nRBMbDrAf4tYHgCg&usg=AFQjCNGJAfAe_9nBrYWlfZcZ9Bc1e5Mrig&sig2=2o3wJjfqXRVVMfSbnt0qkw

Second step should be to stick two piezo speakers on both end wired to increase the amplitude of the resonant logitudinal wave. The output from signal gen should be of same frequency. Fixed.

Third step should be to first test just the output of a coil would over the magnet to measure the acoustic resonance effect independent of the input in the primary. This will give a good insight of the acoustic electricity generation.

Fourth step should be to put the primary in series or parallel to the piezos to see where you get the max output.

Best

Offline verpies

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #70 on: February 19, 2014, 04:10:49 PM »
@verpies, it would be better to take a bar magnet and first determine its natural resonant frequency by the method given below.
I'm all for determining the acoustic longitudinal standing wave fundamental frequency of the magnet (or magnet/core combo) as shown in this video or by acoustic Time-of-Flight methods.

The achievement of standing waves greatly localizes and magnifies the amplitude of acoustic vibrations in matter.

Second step should be to stick two piezo speakers on both end wired to increase the amplitude of the resonant logitudinal wave.
Two piezos are not necessary in systems like this.
Also, any single-ended piezo should have a massive counterpoise on its other side anyway.  It must have something to brace against...

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #70 on: February 19, 2014, 04:10:49 PM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #71 on: February 19, 2014, 06:03:36 PM »
Dear All.

Verpies suggested to me via PM that you guys and gall's might be interested in some of my findings using ultrasonic stimulation of a ferrite split core.

This is just one of a series of tests carried out using a very cheap Piezo transducer.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ql2zfs5vevM

I have since purchased some 40 W industrial transducers to continue my experiments with. The results will follow sometime soon.

You will notice that stimulation can occur without even touching the ferrite core !! You will also note that the Piezo transducer is not connected in any way to the output coils !!

Cheers Grum.

@Verpies,


Quote from Grumage:

"You will notice that stimulation can occur without even touching the ferrite core !!".

Take special note that Grumage's output volatge is maximized by correct air gap distance positioning between the piezo transducer and the ferrite core!!


P.S. Apparently Jimboot's voltage gain with the second piezo in series was an error caused by a large magnet in close adjacency to the experiment.

Offline Google

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #72 on: February 19, 2014, 06:41:00 PM »
Hi!

I have posted some queries below grumage s video on YT. Can you please go thru and comment.

Best

Offline verpies

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #73 on: February 19, 2014, 08:54:21 PM »
Take special note that Grumage's output volatge is maximized by correct air gap distance positioning between the piezo transducer and the ferrite core!!
Not between the piezo and core but between the two C-core halves.  Grum can confirm or deny.
This is to be expected with acoustic standing waves forming inside the core.

Offline synchro1

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #74 on: February 19, 2014, 09:03:39 PM »
Hi!

I have posted some queries below grumage s video on YT. Can you please go thru and comment.

Best

Failed to find your comments on Grumage's YouTube video. Thanks for the longitudinal resonance video link.

Piezo transducer power consumption is a function of input voltage and frequency. The proportion is exponential not directly proportional. The higher the frequency, the lower the transducer impedence and the greater the power consumption. The highest gain is at the lowest acoustic frequency. The piezo ferrite resonance video shows the first peak at 8.78 KHz. Raising the frequency above this level lowers the COP. Ultra sound vibration is causing the transducer to waste power at a inordinate level.

My COP calculations are based on .5 volts at the lowest acoustic resonant freqency in milli watts compared to the watt rating of the LED. 

 

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