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Author Topic: Acoustic magnetic generator.  (Read 91831 times)

Offline verpies

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2014, 02:49:54 AM »
Now what is the sound wave going to look like to the molecule?  It will "feel" like a slightly "tighter squeeze" with the neighbouring molecules for a brief second.  That's not going to affect the spinning valence electrons.  They will continue to spin in a plane that is perpendicular to the magnetic field.  None of that geometry will be affected by the sound waves.
The magnetic properties of many ferromagnetic materials are affected by sound pressure.  It is called the Villari effect.

Why people do these things is anybody's guess...
The conduction of sound waves directly through the core, or in the air around the core will no nothing to the magnetic field generated by the magnet.
I have not seen that assertion verified experimentally.  However I have seen the permeability of soft ferromagnetic cores being modulated by acoustic pressure. 

Attached is another patent that takes advantage of the Villari effect caused by acoustic standing waves occurring in a ferromagnetic core.

Thus it seems to makes sense to experiment with acoustically stimulated magnetic circuits like those depicted below:

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #45 on: February 18, 2014, 02:49:54 AM »

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #46 on: February 18, 2014, 02:51:04 AM »
Verpies:

Thank you for that information, I looked it up.  It appears to be an effect dependent on the specific material, and on the intensity of the magnetic field, and on the intensity of the mechanical stress.  It looked like this effect starts happening at high stress or high magnetic filed intensity so I doubt that it applies in this case.

Beyond that, changing the amount of magnetization that you have in a core material due to mechanical stress is not a way of producing any extra energy.  So it does not act as a "key" to any alleged amplification of power output when compared to a fixed power input.

From Wikipedia (for the related inverse effect of Magnetostriction):

Quote
Magnetostriction (cf. electrostriction) is a property of ferromagnetic materials that causes them to change their shape or dimensions during the process of magnetization. The variation of materials's magnetization due to the applied magnetic field changes the magnetostrictive strain until reaching its saturation value, λ. The effect was first identified in 1842 by James Joule when observing a sample of iron.

This effect causes losses due to frictional heating in susceptible ferromagnetic cores. The effect is also responsible for the low-pitched buzzing sound that can be heard near transformers on alternating current carrying transmission towers.

MileHigh

Offline NoBull

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2014, 03:09:56 AM »
From Wikipedia (for the related inverse effect of Magnetostriction):

Why are you quoting an inverse effect when the topic is the Villari effect?

The Villari effect describes the changes of the magnetic properties in a ferromagnet caused by sound waves - not the generation of sound waves by a ferromagnet (which is the opposite, as in "magnetostriction").

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #47 on: February 18, 2014, 03:09:56 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #48 on: February 18, 2014, 03:48:23 AM »
I quoted that because it is easier to relate to.  The actual effect changes the magnetism of a core material due to mechanical stress and it will certainly obey the law of conservation of energy.  In that sense, there is nothing there, and the Norman Wooten patent and sample circuit are essentially meaningless.

Perhaps a bigger issue is does it apply here?  There is limited value in quoting a relatively exotic effect if it will not even happen in the experiment.  I am pretty sure that it in fact will not happen in this experiment.  If anybody wants to do the full check to verify that they are welcome to do so.

MileHigh

Offline synchro1

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2014, 03:59:59 AM »
@Verpies,


Thanks for the hyperlink to the Gunderson patent. Very interesting reading. More similar to what Jimboot did with output windings on a ferrite core rather then over magnets like the McClain/Wootan MRA.

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #49 on: February 18, 2014, 03:59:59 AM »
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Offline NoBull

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #50 on: February 18, 2014, 10:23:46 AM »
The actual effect changes the magnetism of a core material due to mechanical stress and it will certainly obey the law of conservation of energy. 

But that expectation is not a good reason to assign these experiments to a trash pile. 
What if the magnetic flux density and the acoustic standing wave frequency is just right to cause NAR ?

I am pretty sure that it in fact will not happen in this experiment. 

Actually, from my experience the change of permeability under sound pressure happens in ALL ferrite cores that I have tried.
The black ferrites are better at it than the gray ones, but it happens in all of them!

Offline Jimboot

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2014, 11:44:47 AM »
Verpies thanks for your input here. You sir are a man of science.


I have to get this off my chest as a pure amatuer in this field though. I consider it really poor form to berate people for an experiment here and then go and perform the same experiment with 4 vids on YouTube  and not give any acknowledgement to Stefan's forum or some of the ideas that came from this thread. If I did that in the blogging space my career would be over.

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #51 on: February 18, 2014, 11:44:47 AM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #52 on: February 18, 2014, 05:52:40 PM »
The Magnetic Amplifier works off sound pressure. Not only did the "TK Turkey" run four Youtube experiments, he failed to generate any power in the acoustic range, proving that it doesn't work! Another "Classic kibosh" of the kind he's notorious for.

By the way, Jimboot has reported some very interesting discoveries over on the open-source-energy site:

http://open-source-energy.org/

Offline verpies

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #53 on: February 19, 2014, 01:39:44 AM »
The Magnetic Amplifier works off sound pressure.
Then in such system the piezo element should influence the device acoustically - not electrically.

In Jimboot's experiments with the iPhone, piezo and the ferromagnetic core, the piezo element influences the device electrically by acting as a capacitor in series with the primary winding of the transformer. 
Most of the time, Jimboot's piezo element does not even touch the ferromagnetic core like it would in a pure magnetoacoustic experiment (as shown e.g. here and here)

Tinsel has not analyzed the magnetoacoustic aspect if this device, because the topic was not this type of device. 
He was shown an electronic contraption and he did an electronic analysis of it.  In light of these circumstances ignoring the acoustic aspect of this device seems justified.

Not only did the "TK Turkey" run four YouTube experiments, he failed to generate any power in the acoustic range, proving that it doesn't work! Another "Classic kibosh" of the kind he's notorious for.
Tinsel's electronic analysis of Jimboot's system is correct even if his bed side manner is acerbic.

Here and here are related videos that show electronic circuits exhibiting a similar behavior. 
Note that these circuits form a parallel LC tank with the primary winding and a series LC tank with the secondary winding.


P.S.
Note that at one time the input bulb is off while the output bulb is on, suggesting an infinite O/I power ratio, but that is wrong because the light bulb on the input side is not a reliable power indicator (it is merely a current indicator).  The input bulb does not measure the input power as well as the output bulb, because it does not constitute a load itself and the MPTT rears its ugly head.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #53 on: February 19, 2014, 01:39:44 AM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #54 on: February 19, 2014, 02:43:02 AM »
Then in such system the piezo element should influence the device acoustically - not electrically.

In Jimboot's experiments with the iPhone, piezo and the ferromagnetic core, the piezo element influences the device electrically by acting as a capacitor in series with the primary winding of the transformer. 
Most of the time, Jimboot's piezo element does not even touch the ferromagnetic core like it would in a pure magnetoacoustic experiment (as shown e.g. here and here)

Tinsel has not analyzed the magnetoacoustic aspect if this device, because the topic was not this type of device. 
He was shown an electronic contraption and he did an electronic analysis of it.  In light of these circumstances ignoring the acoustic aspect of this device seems justified.
Tinsel's electronic analysis of Jimboot's system is correct even if his bed side manner is acerbic.

Here and here are related videos that show electronic circuits exhibiting a similar behavior. 
Note that these circuits form a parallel LC tank with the primary winding and a series LC tank with the secondary winding.


P.S.
Note that at one time the input bulb is off while the output bulb is on, suggesting an infinite O/I power ratio, but that is wrong because the light bulb on the input side is not a reliable power indicator (it is merely a current indicator).  The input bulb does not measure the input power as well as the output bulb, because it does not constitute a load itself and the MPTT rears its ugly head.

@Verpies,


Quote from above:

"Jimboot's piezo element does not even touch the ferromagnetic core".

The piezo element does not need to touch the permanent magnet, it merely needs to be in the magnetic field!


Quote from Davidson's "Acoustic-Magnetic Power Generator" patent:

"Claim 1:

An acoustic magnetic power generator composed of an alternating current signal connected to an acoustic transducer which stimulates the core of a permanent magnet such that the atoms of the magnet are caused to vibrate which in turn causes the magnetic field to vibrate and causes a current and voltage to be generated in an output coil wrapped around a permanent magnet or in the magnetic field of the permanent magnet which said current and voltage can be used for powering a load".

The Dan A. Davidson patent:

http://www.google.com/patents/US5568005


"The combined effect of the acoustic signal and the stimulating coil increases the efficiency of permanent magnet induction transformers".


Again, from the Davidson patent:


"When an alternating current signal generator is connected simultaneously to an acoustic transducer and a stimulating coil; whereby, both the acoustic transducer and the stimulating coil are located within the magnetic field of the magnet".

Offline synchro1

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #55 on: February 19, 2014, 03:10:37 AM »
@Verpies,

Let me add that Jimboot wired a second piezo element in series with the first and tripled his output voltage! Tinselkoala slapped together a hastily assembled "Piece of Crap" from scavenged junk parts that was a complete failure as an Acoustic-Magnetic Power Generator. He demonstrated that his contraption didn't need a piezo transducer at four times the maximum acoustic frequency, and delivered zero output in the acoustic range, which is what he set out to demonstrate as the chronic nauseating cynic he is. He shoot's from the hip at everyone and I hope I finally got to singe his tail feathers.

The piezo circuit carries an exciter signal that's practically all voltage. There's no transformer level current running through it. That was my point. I'm not trying to deceive anyone. The deception is that the piezo transducer is irrelevant in the circuit, and that it works the same when replaced by capacitors. Jimboot just demonstrated that an additional transducer triples the voltage when making sound, not that there's no difference if it's replaced by a stinking capacitor. Hello? What's that kind of gain have to do with no additional primary transformer current?

I just got a load of TK's new redundant nowhere no magnet LC tank video. Boring! Here we find the narcissist replicating Jimboot's experiment with the conspicuous absence of any credit to Jimboot or any reference to the Overunity site, or the Synchro thread.
« Last Edit: February 19, 2014, 05:44:24 AM by synchro1 »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #55 on: February 19, 2014, 03:10:37 AM »
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Offline synchro1

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #56 on: February 19, 2014, 06:11:05 AM »

Reply from Lasersaber to TK's new video:


"Hi TinselKoala,

I just tried the basic effect using an iPhone like JimBoot started with.  My scope showed .5V on the input before the transducer.  On the output side I found a sweet spot giving over 8 volts.  The LED was nice and bright.  I actually did not expect it to work on the iPhone mic output.  I ran out of time this evening but I will check current draw etc in the future.  I believe the transformer to be a 1:1 ratio but without unwinding I am not absolutely sure.  It seems to me that it is a tank circuit effect".

Lasersaber reports 1/2 a volt on the input before the transducer, and over 8 volts on the output side!

My ball park COP calculation right now is 1:250!

Offline verpies

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #57 on: February 19, 2014, 11:09:22 AM »
The piezo element does not need to touch the permanent magnet, it merely needs to be in the magnetic field!
This is very unlikely because it has never been observed that the piezoelectric element can affect magnetic field directly...or the other way round.
If you had made this statement solely on the basis of the claim in the Davidson patent, then it would not be a good scientific argument, even if it was not a case of miscomprehension.

In that claim you quoted, the phrase "in the magnetic field of the permanent magnet" refers to the "output coil" - not to the acoustic transducer ( a piezo element ).

Offline wings

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #58 on: February 19, 2014, 11:21:13 AM »
oops  :P

my be this compensate my double post :

Naudin regarding soliton generation with caduceus wound coil[/size]

Some thinkings and hypothesis about the observed phenomenon :[/size]
Today, after some tests with the SP-Gen, my main hypothesis is that the train of Soliton pulses is produced by an avalanche effect of the domains walls in the ferrite core. The strong back EMF pulse initiates the motion of the Bloch walls which surround the magnetic domains. Then the avalanche waves of the Bloch walls go back and forth along the ferrite rod as a Soliton wave which moves back and forth in a long and rectangular tank filled with water. The avalanche effect of the domains walls is able to produce an induction with a very weak magnetic field, this is the well known Barkhausen effect6[/font][/size] discovered in 1919 by Heinrich George Barkhausen7[/font][/size]. The most interesting fact to study here in this experiment, is that the Barkhausen jumps seem to move themselves autonomously in the ferrite rod after that the back EMF pulse which as initiated the process has vanished.
Today, it's still an hypothesis and more tests and deep investigations need to be conducted to confirm this fact...[/font][/size]
from:[/size]
http://jnaudin.free.fr/spgen/

Offline verpies

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Re: Acoustic magnetic generator.
« Reply #59 on: February 19, 2014, 11:38:12 AM »
.

 

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