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Author Topic: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED  (Read 681582 times)

mondrasek

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1301
Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #810 on: March 09, 2014, 12:51:31 AM »
Dude, I'm signing off for the night.

I have asked you which one of the presented ZED models would you like me to Analyze to compare our results.

AFAIK, you have not answered me.  But I do not discount the possibility that we are "talking past each other"

I hope you have restful evening!

M.

mrwayne

• Hero Member
• Posts: 975
Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #811 on: March 09, 2014, 12:56:59 AM »
Not so fast.

From level move the system with an external source.

The raised ZED has its bag compressed and the water is inside the ZED.

The lowered ZED has its bag full of water and the ZED is in the rest state and has less volume of water inside.

When the system is allowed to change, the raised ZED's water moves into the bag, under pressure, and expands the bag.

The expanding bag pushes on the lever connected via a pivot to the other ZED's bag.

The other ZED's bag is being compressed to move the water from the bag into the ZED.

So the lever is up on the raised ZED side and down on the lowered ZED side.

The tall pole with weights and the tube is connected to that lever and is leaning towards the lowered ZED side.

As the pressure from the raised ZED is expanding the bag it is compressing the other ZED bag AND rotating the tall pole with weights and the tube, the added resistance of the tall pole with the weights and the tube are converting some of the lost pressure, aka the "tyranny" of it all,, into an elevated GPE, this motion continues until there is insufficient pressure in the raised ZED side to continue, at which time the assist rams are applied.  The raised ZED side still has pressure within the ZED and this now assists the assist rams, as well as the tall pole with weights and the tube has now crossed over the vertical point and is also assisting by dropping the GPE to complete the motion of compressing the lowered ZED side bag and raising that ZED up.

During this cycle of change the raised ZED lowers and the lowered ZED raises.

Webby, I completely followed that.

p.s The bag system always equalizes in the center of travel.

MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #812 on: March 09, 2014, 01:04:05 AM »
Dude, I'm signing off for the night.

I have asked you which one of the presented ZED models would you like me to Analyze to compare our results.

AFAIK, you have not answered me.  But I do not discount the possibility that we are "talking past each other"

I hope you have restful evening!

M.
Either you have the:  math, assumptions, logic, and conclusions that you want checked as stated in your OP or you don't.  If you've been blowing smoke for three weeks, then it's been fun.  If you actually have something that took you to an OU conclusion and you want work checked then it's up to you to show your work that you said that you want others to check.  It does not get simpler than that.

MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #813 on: March 09, 2014, 01:05:46 AM »
Webby, I completely followed that.

p.s The bag system always equalizes in the center of travel.
So where does the external work come out?  How much external work goes in?  How are the external work in and out values measured?

mrwayne

• Hero Member
• Posts: 975
Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #814 on: March 09, 2014, 01:18:17 AM »
Hello Mondrasek,

A "builder" just stopped by shook my hand and gave me a running Sterno motor!

He drove 80 miles!!!

I love it.

.......................

I will be surprised if Mark ever goes any further with you - he is smart and can surely see the obvious conclusion.

The dodging and diversions and demands, intentional omissions, premature assumptions, degrading comparatives, making self supporting claims, assumed ruler of the universe, and     are much like TK - but I am not yet convinced.

"removed text for poor taste"
« Last Edit: March 09, 2014, 04:42:03 AM by mrwayne »

MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #815 on: March 09, 2014, 01:54:06 AM »
Hello Mondrasek,

A "builder" just stopped by shook my hand and gave me a running Sterno motor!

He drove 80 miles!!!

I love it.

.......................

I will be surprised if Mark ever goes any further with you - he is smart and can surely see the obvious conclusion.
The obvious conclusion is that the system is lossy as has been shown.  It is Mondrasek who has failed to show that he obtains an OU result by any valid analysis.
Quote

The dodging and diversions and demands, intentional omissions, premature assumptions, degrading comparatives, making self supporting claims, assumed ruler of the universe, and     are much like TK - but I am not yet convinced.
Yes, it is sad how Mondrasek has asked people to help him figure out his work for three weeks, while he steadfastly dips and dodges every request to see the work that he says he wants checked.  The obvious conclusion is that Mondrasek has been blowing smoke the entire time.
Quote

Quick question:

How many of these user names are "TK

John
AL
alokin alset
Orbo 3000
minnie
TK
alset alokin
Bill

?
If it is not an anagram of Nikola Tesla then it is probably not TinselKoala.
Quote

For John's name and address. Private message me.

Sorry if I missed some -  do not read the other threads.
If you have his actual name and address then you can also determine his science qualifications.

mrwayne

• Hero Member
• Posts: 975
Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #816 on: March 09, 2014, 03:18:24 AM »
The obvious conclusion is that the system is lossy as has been shown.  It is Mondrasek who has failed to show that he obtains an OU result by any valid analysis.Yes, it is sad how Mondrasek has asked people to help him figure out his work for three weeks, while he steadfastly dips and dodges every request to see the work that he says he wants checked.  The obvious conclusion is that Mondrasek has been blowing smoke the entire time.If it is not an anagram of Nikola Tesla then it is probably not TinselKoala.If you have his actual name and address then you can also determine his science qualifications.

I know that Mondrasek is an excellent engineer, and  has went to great length to analyze the system (independently) and has his conclusions.

Its up to you - I suggest you let him lead his thread - I know you 'think' you know the answer - he does.

On TK

You are right, he checked out with plenty of qualifications. What he is using them for now - at least on this thread -  I do not know.

I am glad he is helpful to some - but being a total urd isser - does not help anyone.

MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #817 on: March 09, 2014, 03:36:45 AM »
I know that Mondrasek is an excellent engineer, and  has went to great length to analyze the system (independently) and has his conclusions.
Whatever his conclusions may or may not be he has failed to show how he reaches them, despite opening this thread with a request that others review them.  It is very queer that three weeks in he avoids showing the work he said he wants checked.
Quote

Its up to you - I suggest you let him lead his thread - I know you 'think' you know the answer - he does.
Not only do I know it, I have posted it:  The scheme is fundamentally lossy.  Adding more risers just makes it worse.
Quote

I do understand you steadfast faith.
It's called physics.
Quote

On TK

You are right, he checked out with plenty of qualifications. What he is using them for now - at least on this thread -  I do not know.
He seems to have performed a number of neat demonstrations that refute your claims.
Quote

I am glad he is helpful to some - but being a total urd isser - does not help anyone.
Then you stop doing that and do something useful.  Selling false claims is not an honorable endeavor.

mrwayne

• Hero Member
• Posts: 975
Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #818 on: March 09, 2014, 03:52:45 AM »
MarkE

You have shown your version - diversion , not the one Mike was showing.

I do not waste my time with your letter to the readers - they are on to you.

Wayne

MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #819 on: March 09, 2014, 05:03:52 AM »
MarkE

You have shown your version - diversion , not the one Mike was showing.
Mondrasek has had three weeks to show his analysis.  We all still wait.  Perhaps we will never see it just as we will never see a working free energy generator that you claim to have from you.
Quote

I do not waste my time with your letter to the readers - they are on to you.
Oh perish the thought:  People actually know that I follow the physics and not silly misdirection like the "Travis effect".
Quote

You'll have to ask Mondrasek to come up with some evidence.  Sadly, it is not something that either you or he offer.
Quote

Wayne
Are events in motion?  Maybe yes, and maybe no.

MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #820 on: March 09, 2014, 05:07:05 AM »
Sorry MarkE I thought that restating that when the risers goes up that they also move the production ram up and that places the fluid in the ram under pressure and moves it into the pressurized external accumulator,, was not needed.

I was referencing TK's post on what he thought the relationships were.

Any excess input to the external accumulator could be used to run an external motor to extract useful work.

If the low pressure return to the Reserve tank is not sufficient to meet the volume requirements of the production ram going down then extra fluid is drawn in from the Reserve tank.  When this becomes a sufficient drop in the tank level the system stops working while the pressure and fluid is used by the external motor and fills the Reserve tank back up.

The assist rams get there fluid volume at pressure from the external accumulator and return the low pressure fluid into either the Reserve tank or the production ram.
Anything that cycles internally is part of the system.  Show energy that is delivered from within the system to outside the system in a way that can do useful work outside the system.  If one takes energy out of the accumulator then that creates a deficit that the system must replace.  So, if you like: account some amount of energy removed from the accumulator cycle by cycle and where you are going to replenish that energy from.

mrwayne

• Hero Member
• Posts: 975
Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #821 on: March 09, 2014, 06:17:18 AM »
Mondrasek has had three weeks to show his analysis.  We all still wait.  Perhaps we will never see it just as we will never see a working free energy generator that you claim to have from you.Oh perish the thought:  People actually know that I follow the physics and not silly misdirection like the "Travis effect".You'll have to ask Mondrasek to come up with some evidence.  Sadly, it is not something that either you or he offer.Are events in motion?  Maybe yes, and maybe no.

Maybe you are right, I give up.

MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #822 on: March 09, 2014, 06:59:39 AM »
Maybe you are right, I give up.
If you do it will give you more online time to go buy some linear compression springs to make a new super ZED, or cinder blocks to make an ultimate ZED.

orbut 3000

• Full Member
• Posts: 247
Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #823 on: March 09, 2014, 07:40:04 AM »

Maybe I'm only a little sockpuppet (according to wayne) but my button-eyes seem to have spotted a knitting pattern here.

On one side we have MarkE's open and transparent effort of a mathematical analysis of an ideal 'ZED'.
On the other side we have a paranoid, insult slinging, evasive OU claimant who refuses to answer simple
questions and fails to substantiate his unusual claims.

I think I'm still on the fence.
I hope Mr. Wayne Travis can turn this around and is able prove MarkE wrong.

MileHigh

• Hero Member
• Posts: 7600
Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #824 on: March 09, 2014, 09:56:34 AM »
It's so funny because there is pattern to the thread.  Evey now and then Wayne pops in for a "Twilight Zone" moment where he tries to reset the theme back to "It's real, you just don't get it but we do."

Quote
I know that Mondrasek is an excellent engineer, and  has went to great length to analyze the system (independently) and has his conclusions.

Its up to you - I suggest you let him lead his thread - I know you 'think' you know the answer - he does.

Meanwhile the sausage factory remains shut down.

MileHigh