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Author Topic: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED  (Read 488768 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #795 on: March 08, 2014, 11:24:10 PM »
Anytime we can bring back "MarkE" we can move forward with the Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED, AFAICS.
Some people do need to sleep, eat, clean the spittle off the monitor, stuff like that. 

You asked me earlier what I thought. My response is, let's not worry too much about what we think, right now, let's just try to agree on what the observations are; let's worry about what we see. Once we have an agreement on the observations, then we are in a better position to analyze. This is of course a paraphrase of Weir's Law.  Observations include things like schematics of the SUT, timing diagrams or flow charts of the operation, measurements of quantities and rates, etc. Certain observations, or rather lack of them, may even call into question the very physical reality of the (alleged) system under test. IMHO you are forced, at the present moment, to analyze the composition and size of the pinhead that a troupe of angels have chosen as their dancefloor-- without yet having confirmed the existence of angels, much less whether they prefer disco or ballroom styles.

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #795 on: March 08, 2014, 11:24:10 PM »

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #796 on: March 08, 2014, 11:24:19 PM »
MarkE, would it be okay with you to show how I would evaluate your State 3 shown here?
I want you to show the "math, assumptions, logic, and conclusions" that you have long asked others to check.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #797 on: March 08, 2014, 11:25:06 PM »
It is not dimensioned but this has already been posted.

Please not the Reserve tank on the left, please note the one-way flow valves in the lines, please note that the high pressure fluid coming out of the production ram can only enter the accumulator, or High side of the system, please note that the low pressure return from the flow assist rams can enter either the Reserve tank, or low pressure side, or the production ram only when that production ram is at a low pressure, IE going down.

If the production ram were to move 200cc of fluid per cycle and the flow assist rams were to use 100cc of fluid per cycle then the Reserve tank will need to provide the other 100cc per cycle resulting in the Reserve tanks held volume of fluid being moved into the high pressure accumulator resulting in the accumulators stored volume of fluid under pressure increasing and the Reserve tanks volume under low pressure decreasing.

Edit to add,, the blue tank is the accumulator,, I believe :)
Where is the external work output?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #797 on: March 08, 2014, 11:25:06 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #798 on: March 08, 2014, 11:27:59 PM »
Anytime we can bring back "MarkE" we can move forward with the Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED, AFAICS.
No, we are all waiting on you to show your:  math, assumptions, logic, and conclusions.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #799 on: March 08, 2014, 11:27:59 PM »
http://www.speedcrunch.org/


And you can't fool me... those cats are not engineers. There was not a single equation, no math at all, in the video. Although I did count at least three cats.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #799 on: March 08, 2014, 11:27:59 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #800 on: March 08, 2014, 11:30:35 PM »
Where is the external work output?
That particular model has never even been alleged to produce any usable work overboard. It was, however, represented to Mark Dansie --- if I understand the spaghetti rhetoric of honest Wayne Travis -- as a self running machine that needed no external power to run and keep running. Hence, just working against friction, heating up the environment and frightening the livestock with its clanking and clattering, that is its only external work output.


Offline mondrasek

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #801 on: March 08, 2014, 11:36:01 PM »
Hey hey hey hey!  So you are, as TK and MarkE, fast on the keyboard!  Very nice skill.  I wish I had that.  I'm pathetically slow. 

So how about giving me a chance to catch up?

Or does your speed in shouting me down over my speed to respond mean shit?

M.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #801 on: March 08, 2014, 11:36:01 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #802 on: March 08, 2014, 11:39:48 PM »
Funny....we , er, I mean I was thinking the same thing about you and Webby. You must have two keyboards and type with your feet.

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #803 on: March 08, 2014, 11:49:39 PM »
Webby and I are two discrete individuals.

You and MarkE however...

Naaw, Linux and a kiddie script to change IPs?

But since you obviously post as TK and MarkE, I would have to have guessed that you have possession of more than one physical or virtual PCs.  I think you can have more than one PC, but not enough for what you have presented.  So my hypothesis is that they are virtual.  And have been assigned different IP addresses.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #803 on: March 08, 2014, 11:49:39 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #804 on: March 08, 2014, 11:57:22 PM »
Webby and I are two discrete individuals.

You and MarkE however...

Naaw, Linux and a kiddie script to change IPs?

But since you obviously post as TK and MarkE, I would have to have guessed that you have possession of more than one physical or virtual PCs.  I think you can have more than one PC, but not enough for what you have presented.  So my hypothesis is that they are virtual.  And have been assigned different IP addresses.
I suggest that you leave your loopy fantasies about me being TinselKoala behind and get around to stating your:  math, assumptions, logic, and conclusions, so that we may check them as you asked folks to do in your OP.

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #805 on: March 09, 2014, 12:10:23 AM »
I suggest that you leave your loopy fantasies about me being TinselKoala behind and get around to stating your:  math, assumptions, logic, and conclusions, so that we may check them as you asked folks to do in your OP.

As soon as you don't show up right after I tell TK that I am waiting for you to respond!

But if you would like to get back to the Analysis...

I have presented several options on how to continue.  Do you have a preference or soul you like to have them presented again? 

My own personal preference is that we Analyze the State 3 diagram that I last posted.  I believe that is what you also posted last as a final State 3.

Please let me know if we can continue using your posted State 3 Analysis diagram or not.

M.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #805 on: March 09, 2014, 12:10:23 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #806 on: March 09, 2014, 12:13:47 AM »
As soon as you don't show up right after I tell TK that I am waiting for you to respond!

But if you would like to get back to the Analysis...

I have presented several options on how to continue.  Do you have a preference or soul you like to have them presented again? 

My own personal preference is that we Analyze the State 3 diagram that I last posted.  I believe that is what you also posted last as a final State 3.

Please let me know if we can continue using your posted State 3 Analysis diagram or not.

M.
Where are your:  math, assumptions, logic, and conclusions that you have asked people to check.  The ante has been to you for a long time now.  You claimed to have obtained a result and that you wanted people to check your work for errors.  Yet, you seem extremely reluctant to show your actual work.  Why is that?

Your contention that I am TinselKoala is delusional.


Offline mondrasek

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #807 on: March 09, 2014, 12:20:28 AM »
Where are your:  math, assumptions, logic, and conclusions that you have asked people to check.  The ante has been to you for a long time now.  You claimed to have obtained a result and that you wanted people to check your work for errors.  Yet, you seem extremely reluctant to show your actual work.  Why is that?

Your contention that I am TinselKoala is delusional.

And yet my question to you if it is acceptable to continue the Analysis from the re-posted version of one of your "State 3" diagrams goes unanswered.

"MarkE", I am ready to analyze any of the ZED systems we have been discussing.

Please choose one?

Thanks,

M.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #808 on: March 09, 2014, 12:22:42 AM »
And yet my question to you if it is acceptable to continue the Analysis from the re-posted version of one of your "State 3" diagrams goes unanswered.

"MarkE", I am ready to analyze any of the ZED systems we have been discussing.

Please choose one?

Thanks,

M.
You are being non-responsive.  Either you have: math, assumptions, logic, and conclusions that you want people to check as you stated in your OP or you don't.  In the first case there shouldn't be anything preventing you from publishing such.  In the latter case you do not have any OU conclusion that needs to be explained.  Choose and proceed as you will.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #809 on: March 09, 2014, 12:28:24 AM »
Not so fast.

From level move the system with an external source.

Now start with one riser up and the other down.

The raised ZED has its bag compressed and the water is inside the ZED.

The lowered ZED has its bag full of water and the ZED is in the rest state and has less volume of water inside.

When the system is allowed to change, the raised ZED's water moves into the bag, under pressure, and expands the bag.

The expanding bag pushes on the lever connected via a pivot to the other ZED's bag.

The other ZED's bag is being compressed to move the water from the bag into the ZED.

So the lever is up on the raised ZED side and down on the lowered ZED side.

The tall pole with weights and the tube is connected to that lever and is leaning towards the lowered ZED side.

As the pressure from the raised ZED is expanding the bag it is compressing the other ZED bag AND rotating the tall pole with weights and the tube, the added resistance of the tall pole with the weights and the tube are converting some of the lost pressure, aka the "tyranny" of it all,, into an elevated GPE, this motion continues until there is insufficient pressure in the raised ZED side to continue, at which time the assist rams are applied.  The raised ZED side still has pressure within the ZED and this now assists the assist rams, as well as the tall pole with weights and the tube has now crossed over the vertical point and is also assisting by dropping the GPE to complete the motion of compressing the lowered ZED side bag and raising that ZED up.

During this cycle of change the raised ZED lowers and the lowered ZED raises.
So you put energy in to raise one side of the glorified teeter-totter, then did something with an "assist" device where it is unclear you obtained the energy that provides the needed "assist", and moved the teeter-totter to the other side.  Where was useful work done?

 

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