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Author Topic: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED  (Read 414588 times)

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #585 on: March 06, 2014, 02:17:37 AM »
E = k*N*X/N2

MarkE, could you please define the terms you are supplying in this relationship?  Ie. k = what?  etc.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #585 on: March 06, 2014, 02:17:37 AM »

Offline Newton II

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #586 on: March 06, 2014, 02:35:23 AM »
Why don't you go for vapourization?  Water in a container behaves as a single mass since the molecules are held by bonds keeping it in liquid state.  But when it is vapourized, molecules get separated, become lighter than air and move upwards to form clouds at some part of the atmosphere.  When water molecules in clouds  join making them heavier than air (due to lightening or any other reason) they again fall down to earth as rain developing enormous kinetic energy which we make use of indirectly in hydel power plants to generate megawatts of electricity.

Is it not possible to replicate the natural process of rain in laboratory?

While most portion of solar energy is used up in heating up of earth and oceans,  a very small portion only is used in evaporating water from oceans and ground.  But when evaporated water falls down to earth as rain,  it developes enormous kinetic energy.

Is not rainfall a natural case of overunity?


Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #587 on: March 06, 2014, 02:48:11 AM »
BTW, I did say:
ds is distance which is another calculable (or measurable) physical fact and therefore a CONSTANT.
X ds signifies the change in X per per infinitesimal change in S.  ds is not S, and cannot be substituted for or by S.
Quote

And you replied with:
I find it hard to believe that you flunked calculus.  But, if you want to represent that you did, who am I to argue?


Distance is an indisputable fact.  Calculus does not apply.  Distance is simply distance.   It is a measurement that has units of length.  In SI the unit of length is the meter.
ds is calculus notation. integral( F*ds ) only equals F*S for the unique condition that F is a constant, and the evaluation is from zero to S.  Under all conditions where F is a function of S, such as applies here, the integral(F*ds) must be solved.
Quote

Once a distance is calculated or measured it is a CONSTANT that can in no way be in dispute.
Distance can be constant.  That does not mean that force along a path is constant.  Here is a simple compression spring problem:  F = -kX, where k is the spring constant.  Let's make it simple and say that k = 10N/m.  How much energy does it require to compress the spring by 100cm?

a. 0.05J
b. 0.5J
c. 1J
d. 5J
e. none of the above

How much energy does it require to compress the spring by 1m?

a. 0.05J
b. 0.5J
c. 1J
d. 5J
e. none of the above

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #587 on: March 06, 2014, 02:48:11 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #588 on: March 06, 2014, 02:56:08 AM »
So you think this is YOUR thread, then? And you are right about one thing.... you cannot buy ME.

Why don't you AT LEAST learn to spell M. Ondrasek's name properly, you ignorant buffoon.

You have dreams, plans, expectations. You do NOT have what you clearly claimed to have: a self running machine that makes usable excess energy output. Feel free to PROVE ME WRONG by showing one to someone. But you cannot, you will never be able to, and in some dark part of that brain of yours know that you can't.

And every single post you make that DOES NOT provide real evidence for your claims, the more people reading here will be convinced you  cannot do it. So keep up the major work of making these posts here, Wayne Travis. Your employees are wondering why you spend so much time on internet forums promulgating your false claims instead of WORKING FOR A LIVING.

Cmon T. You complain about a misspelled name, that was posted at 1am, as you stated earlier, then put a comma in your first sentence of your post here, which does'nt work there really.  ;) Did'nt work for me as soon as I read it. Does that make you an ignorant buffoon?  Why so much belching of insults? For the audience?  Making your case??  Cheap shot really. ::) I guess thats all that is left. ;)

"You do NOT have what you clearly claimed to have: a self running machine that makes usable excess energy output. Feel free to PROVE ME WRONG by showing one to someone. But you cannot, you will never be able to, and in some dark part of that brain of yours know that you can't."

Well I would say that statement is a claim. Can you prove your claim?  ??? ;) Put it on YT and lets see your proof of 'your' claim. You made numerous vids proving Rosemary wrong, but no due diligence as such here.  And you tell Wayne 'he' should work for a living. You are posting here in greater quantity than Wayne has, yet no proofs of 'your claim', just speculation. Oh the hypocrisy. ::)

Wayne said  "...and above your pay grade"  and you said   "you cannot buy ME" 

It seems to me that Wayne was implying that you are not worth the pay that he would expect to pay someone that he considered capable of doing the work he would expect to pay for. How is that him trying to buy you?  Is that something the readers should understand clearly??? As that is your target audience, right?  "the more people reading here will be convinced you  cannot do it." ::)

See this is the way the comma should have been used...

"As that is your target audience, right?"  not  "So you think this is YOUR thread, then?"  lol  Buffoonery with a bit of hypocrisy?  Any readers here??????  ;D

Mags ::)

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #589 on: March 06, 2014, 02:57:22 AM »
MarkE, could you please define the terms you are supplying in this relationship?  Ie. k = what?  etc.
K is a constant appropriate to the problem.  X is a distance where the evaluated quantity is proportional to the square of X, and N is the number of elements that over which the distance is equally proportioned.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #589 on: March 06, 2014, 02:57:22 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #590 on: March 06, 2014, 03:00:30 AM »
Why don't you go for vapourization?  Water in a container behaves as a single mass since the molecules are held by bonds keeping it in liquid state.  But when it is vapourized, molecules get separated, become lighter than air and move upwards to form clouds at some part of the atmosphere.  When water molecules in clouds  join making them heavier than air (due to lightening or any other reason) they again fall down to earth as rain developing enormous kinetic energy which we make use of indirectly in hydel power plants to generate megawatts of electricity.

Is it not possible to replicate the natural process of rain in laboratory?

While most portion of solar energy is used up in heating up of earth and oceans,  a very small portion only is used in evaporating water from oceans and ground.  But when evaporated water falls down to earth as rain,  it developes enormous kinetic energy.

Is not rainfall a natural case of overunity?
No it is not.  And the heat of vaporization of water is huge compared to the heat required to change its temperature from say room temperature to 100C.  The energy that we are able to reclaim from a hydroelectric dam is but a small percentage of the solar energy expended vaporizing the water that ultimately runs through the generator turbines.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #591 on: March 06, 2014, 03:04:12 AM »
Cmon T. You complain about a misspelled name, that was posted at 1am, as you stated earlier, then put a comma in your first sentence of your post here, which does'nt work there really.  ;) Did'nt work for me as soon as I read it. Does that make you an ignorant buffoon?  Why so much belching of insults? For the audience?  Making your case??  Cheap shot really. ::) I guess thats all that is left. ;)

"You do NOT have what you clearly claimed to have: a self running machine that makes usable excess energy output. Feel free to PROVE ME WRONG by showing one to someone. But you cannot, you will never be able to, and in some dark part of that brain of yours know that you can't."

Well I would say that statement is a claim. Can you prove your claim?  ??? ;) Put it on YT and lets see your proof of 'your' claim. You made numerous vids proving Rosemary wrong, but no due diligence as such here.  And you tell Wayne 'he' should work for a living. You are posting here in greater quantity than Wayne has, yet no proofs of 'your claim', just speculation. Oh the hypocrisy. ::)

Wayne said  "...and above your pay grade"  and you said   "you cannot buy ME" 

It seems to me that Wayne was implying that you are not worth the pay that he would expect to pay someone that he considered capable of doing the work he would expect to pay for. How is that him trying to buy you?  Is that something the readers should understand clearly??? As that is your target audience, right?  "the more people reading here will be convinced you  cannot do it." ::)

See this is the way the comma should have been used...

"As that is your target audience, right?"  not  "So you think this is YOUR thread, then?"  lol  Buffoonery with a bit of hypocrisy?  Any readers here??????  ;D

Mags ::)
The extraordinary claim is by Wayne Travis / HER / Zydro.  Extraordinary claims are false on their face until proven by the claimant.  How many years has it been and Wayne Travis has not offered a shred of evidence that:  He can alter the conservative nature of gravity, generate the endless energy, or any energy that he claims.  Each of those is an extraordinary claim.  Each is false on its face.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #591 on: March 06, 2014, 03:04:12 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #592 on: March 06, 2014, 03:07:00 AM »
Mark:

I can answer your pop quiz but I am not sure any of Wayne's replicators can.  I doubt that Wayne can answer it.  For me that illustrates the moral bankruptcy of Wayne (endorsing them and advising us to 'learn' from them) and the folly of the whole affair.

Also Wayne's "descriptions" of how the thing allegedly works are nothing more than a word salad.  It makes me absolutely cringe.  I challenge anybody reading this to state that they actually understand what Wayne is saying.  It's the well-practiced jumble-ese that is used to seduce little old ladies to part with their retirement money.

Wayne's world is a classic reality distortion zone.

MileHigh

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #593 on: March 06, 2014, 03:10:29 AM »
Mark:

I can answer your pop quiz but I am not sure any of Wayne's replicators can.  I doubt that Wayne can answer it.  For me that illustrates the moral bankruptcy of Wayne (endorsing them and advising us to 'learn' from them) and the folly of the whole affair.

Also Wayne's "descriptions" of how the thing allegedly works are nothing more than a word salad.  It makes me absolutely cringe.  I challenge anybody reading this to state that they actually understand what Wayne is saying.  It's the well-practiced jumble-ese that is used to seduce little old ladies to part with their retirement money.

Wayne's world is a classic reality distortion zone.

MileHigh
In the past day, Wayne Travis has claimed that there is such thing as a "Travis effect".  This overcomes the objection two years ago that the term was just something Tom Miller referred to and no one should hold Wayne Travis to that term.  I have never seen anyone articulate a description of what the supposed "Travis effect" is, and how it behaves differently from the 2000 year old Archimedes' Principle.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #593 on: March 06, 2014, 03:10:29 AM »
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Offline orbut 3000

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #594 on: March 06, 2014, 03:15:46 AM »

I think mrwayne is well on the way to understand why his claims are false.
He seems to be a fairly intelligent guy and with a little help he might be able to wrap his
head around the basic concepts.


Maybe larry or webby could post the link to the wikipedia article about gravitation to help
him to catch up.

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #595 on: March 06, 2014, 03:19:08 AM »
X ds signifies the change in X per per infinitesimal change in S.  ds is not S, and cannot be substituted for or by S.ds is calculus notation. integral( F*ds ) only equals F*S for the unique condition that F is a constant, and the evaluation is from zero to S.  Under all conditions where F is a function of S, such as applies here, the integral(F*ds) must be solved.Distance can be constant.  That does not mean that force along a path is constant.  Here is a simple compression spring problem:  F = -kX, where k is the spring constant.  Let's make it simple and say that k = 10N/m.  How much energy does it require to compress the spring by 100cm?

a. 0.05J
b. 0.5J
c. 1J
d. 5J
e. none of the above

How much energy does it require to compress the spring by 1m?

a. 0.05J
b. 0.5J
c. 1J
d. 5J
e. none of the above

MarkE, please respond to one reply at a time.  Try to not mix my replies into an amalgamation that I should have to decipher.

You have not defined yet what "X" represents.   Or what "S" represents.

And I suggest that we stay focused only on the Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED for the purpose of clarity.  Discussing mechanical springs may be equivalent to the unique construction of a ZED for the purposes of the point you are trying to make, but that implied "analogy" is not focused solely on this device.  And so your introduction of the "springs" are a distraction from the Analysis at hand.


F*ds is the correct way to calculate the Energy that enters or leaves the single ideal ZED system being Analyzed, do you agree?


To be 100% clear, are we now only discussing the Analysis of the single riser (semi) ZED system that I presented earlier today?  Is that the one I should prepare the physical resistance to lift (work accumulator) for in the morning?  Or did you want to try this on the 3-layer one?

BTW, I know that a negative or even condescending "tone" can be implied when reading this post.  But please understand that it is not meant that way and accept my apologies for any offense I may have implied.  I did not mean any offense, and I have great respect for your talent and skills.  I am only trying to correspond in a "tone neutral" way, which to me at least, comes off kind of like an ass.

Sorry if I offended you in any way.  It was not my intention.

M.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #595 on: March 06, 2014, 03:19:08 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #596 on: March 06, 2014, 03:35:36 AM »

And I suggest that we stay focused only on the Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED for the purpose of clarity.  Discussing mechanical springs may be equivalent to the unique construction of a ZED for the purposes of the point you are trying to make, but that implied "analogy" is not focused solely on this device.  And so your introduction of the "springs" are a distraction from the Analysis at hand.



 ;)

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #597 on: March 06, 2014, 03:39:33 AM »
MarkE, please respond to one reply at a time.  Try to not mix my replies into an amalgamation that I should have to decipher.

You have not defined yet what "X" represents.   Or what "S" represents.

And I suggest that we stay focused only on the Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED for the purpose of clarity.  Discussing mechanical springs may be equivalent to the unique construction of a ZED for the purposes of the point you are trying to make, but that implied "analogy" is not focused solely on this device.  And so your introduction of the "springs" are a distraction from the Analysis at hand.


F*ds is the correct way to calculate the Energy that enters or leaves the single ideal ZED system being Analyzed, do you agree?
No, I do not agree.
Quote


To be 100% clear, are we now only discussing the Analysis of the single riser (semi) ZED system that I presented earlier today?  Is that the one I should prepare the physical resistance to lift (work accumulator) for in the morning?  Or did you want to try this on the 3-layer one?
The single layer device is what we are discussing.
Quote

BTW, I know that a negative or even condescending "tone" can be implied when reading this post.  But please understand that it is not meant that way and accept my apologies for any offense I may have implied.  I did not mean any offense, and I have great respect for your talent and skills.  I am only trying to correspond in a "tone neutral" way, which to me at least, comes off kind of like an ass.

Sorry if I offended you in any way.  It was not my intention.

M.
I have responded to each of your questions one by one.  X is a quantity that relates to the quantity we are evaluating as a square function.  It is not specific to a particular problem.  X could for example be voltage on a capacitor, deflection of a spring, or the head of water in some column, where the quantity that we are interested in is energy.  In each case the energy is a linear function of X2

S is a distance.  Do not confuse S for ds  They are not the same.

I keep explaining the math.  I have used analogies where the math is the same.

No, F*ds is the quantity that you must integrate over the path S to obtain the energy expended doing so.  Where F is not a constant, the integral will be more complicated than F*S.

Some simple cheats for you:

integral( K1*ds ) = K1*(SEND - SSTART)
integral( K2*Sds ) = 0.5*K2*(SEND2 - SSTART2)

Filling or emptying a single column of water is described by:

F = pWater * G0 * Area * Height
P = F/Area = pWater * G0 * Height
E = integral( F*ds ) = integral( pWater * G0 * Area * Height dh) = 0.5 * pWater * G0 * Area * (HeightEND2 - HeightStart2)


Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #598 on: March 06, 2014, 04:18:43 AM »
The extraordinary claim is by Wayne Travis / HER / Zydro.  Extraordinary claims are false on their face until proven by the claimant.  How many years has it been and Wayne Travis has not offered a shred of evidence that:  He can alter the conservative nature of gravity, generate the endless energy, or any energy that he claims.  Each of those is an extraordinary claim.  Each is false on its face.

Well, if it is soo extra ordinary and 'predetermined' that the claim is false because of its extraordinary status, then why all the fuss??  There must be better reasons than just trying to get him to admit defeat for the sole purpose of getting him to concede.   ???

Like why not go after the guys that put out the "build a magnet motor to run your home" info for just $49.95 Guarantied Money Back If Not Satisfied.  No real problems with those claims, huh? Nobody getting ripped off there, huh?  Did you see the comma placements there?  lol

I know why none of you go after those guys. Its being 'allowed'. ;) Allowed because it is a ripoff that discourages people from believing in the possibility of free energy or OU by cheating the ones that like the idea of it when they read the ads. Thats why the ads persist.  No big raids, nothing. Its funny how they can keep 'advertizing' without being shut down, isnt it? These ads are EVERYWHERE!!. Not challenging enough for you?? Screw the fools that purchase these false hopes??? I thought that was what your goals were, to rid the world of OU ripoffs.  ??? ;)

Best to attack the little guy in a little thread on some forum, who is just trying to help a few guys understand something they never knew? ??? ? ::)

All considered, it makes me think you guys are trying to shut Wayne down for more sinister reasons. 8) 8) 8) 8)      ;)   

Mags

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #599 on: March 06, 2014, 04:28:35 AM »
Well, if it is soo extra ordinary and 'predetermined' that the claim is false because of its extraordinary status, then why all the fuss??  There must be better reasons than just trying to get him to admit defeat for the sole purpose of getting him to concede.   ???

Like why not go after the guys that put out the "build a magnet motor to run your home" info for just $49.95 Guarantied Money Back If Not Satisfied.  No real problems with those claims, huh? Nobody getting ripped off there, huh?  Did you see the comma placements there?  lol

I know why none of you go after those guys. Its being 'allowed'. ;) Allowed because being it is a ripoff that discourages people from believing in the possibility of free energy or OU by cheating the ones that like the idea of it when they read the ads. Thats why the ads persist.  No big raids, nothing. Its funny how they can keep 'advertizing' without being shut down, isnt it? These ads are EVERYWHERE!!. Not challenging enough for you?? Screw the fools that purchase these false hopes??? I thought that was what your goals were, to rid the world of OU ripoffs.  ??? ;)

Best to attack the little guy in a little thread on some forum, who is just trying to help a few guys understand something they never knew? ??? ? ::)

All considered, it makes me think you guys are trying to shut Wayne down for more sinister reasons. 8) 8) 8) 8)      ;)   

Mags
Wayne Travis is unlikely to come out and admit his lies until there is an advantage for him to do so.  Mondrasek asked for help analyzing a the physics.  I offered to help and have done so.  Wayne came here  spewing his usual lies.  He injected himself with those lies here, and like others I have objected.  If you are unhappy about the people selling those bogus free energy plans, then you are free to try and do something about it.

 

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