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Author Topic: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED  (Read 405810 times)

Offline markdansie

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #555 on: March 05, 2014, 02:54:46 PM »
I have been mentioned  in dispatches again !!!!!!!
Just to clear what ever has been said or assumed (most likely the latter) I offer the following.


1. I have visited Wayne, an met withmany members of his team on three occasions.
2. I also arranged introductions to other parties who have visited on several times advising on paths forward and assisting with advice on proof of concept requirements. (highly qualified engineers and scientists)
3. I have always maintained that on my first visit, I was impressed with the efforts, the team spirit and saw some results that were interesting. However it never passed my "two day test of self sustaining"
4. I have suggested as have  many of my friends I introduced, the the need for a POC device.
5. Wayne has many people, some very qualified working with him. I am not qualified to do analysis on:
a. Their calculations and assumptions.
b. Their methods of collecting and interpreting the data
c. Their overall theory
I have however on all three occasion suggested ways of obtaining data, and or suggesting what would be required to convince outside parties.


The engineering and building of prototypes have taken many paths over the years.


I have also been taken to task by many for not "debunking" this technology. Because of business negotiations that effect many of the people including volunteers and investors (which I am not involved in), I have refrained from setting a final time frame for a POC to be running.


On a personal note, this project has brought a lot of passion and interest from many people in Wayne s community and beyond. The real story is not always about the outcome but the journey. I look back at all my dozens of projects that never worked out, sometimes I got it very wrong.


So, I have not seen the data that convinces me, and I do hope to get to see and assist in evaluating a proof of concept one day. However until that day arrives I will continue my public stance as of interest but not supported by any data I have seen to date. Others who work with Wayne, many with engineering qualifications do believe in what they are doing and their calculations. I am a very simple person, and do not get involved in such matters until a working prototype is running run and data has been collected with acceptable methodologies.


This will be my only comment on this matter.


Kind Regards
Mark


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #555 on: March 05, 2014, 02:54:46 PM »

Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #556 on: March 05, 2014, 02:59:12 PM »
If anyone reading this new threat had any doubts about Wayne travesties honesty, take a look at the list of quotes from the old thread, Wayne will accuse me of anything he can to divert attention from his failings and dishonesty, he will also come up with multiple excuses to try and justify his failings and deceit.


Really - don't want me to refute your theory?? But you are allowed to pot shot mine....

TO all:

The ladder of a break thru technology is a hard climb - and change is hard for many people.

Navigating thru the resistance creates many set backs.

I stand behind every statement I have ever made - for the hope, the expectation, and the plan at that time.

But be real - Change happen's and people like these clowns - are forgotten.

..............

Mark Dansie is a very good man, and he has busted his tail, been honest and firm in his trusted role as a real skeptic.

Times and events may change - But my loyalty to those that gave direction, guidance, and connections - will remain solid as a rock.

That may result in different expectations and plans - as proven by powercatt.

Powercatt - you have chronicled the birthing pains of free energy.

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #557 on: March 05, 2014, 03:05:31 PM »
Just trying to get focus back on topic here.  This is a drawing of the same ZED system MarkE and I have been Analyzing, but with only the inner riser.  And the pod is now a simple displacement block to minimize the input water needed to charge the system from State 1 to State 2.

Please note that in State 1, there are zero buoyant Forces on the riser.  However, buoyancy Forces are induced, or "turned on", as the 37 mm water charge is introduced to the inner annulus (what remains of the old pod chamber).

State 3 is shown after the single riser has been allowed to lift until the buoyancy Forces present in State 2 are completely resolved again to zero.  The riser in State 3 is again experiencing zero buoyancy Forces.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #557 on: March 05, 2014, 03:05:31 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #558 on: March 05, 2014, 03:08:33 PM »
Travis is here posting at 1 am, and now he's here posting at 8 am....

Maybe if you spent more time with the crescent wrench and the teflon tape, Wayne ol boy, and less time on insignificant internet websites trying to get help with your homework.... you'd be making more progress toward showing what you claimed you could, and would gladly, show to us two and three years ago.

But something always clogs, springs a leak, trickles away and the thing comes to a stop, more or less rapidly. So you make a design change or order a new part or fire one engineer and hire another one. After all, your _THEORY_ says it must work, so the reason why it doesn't must be in the hardware somewhere. Look at all the data from the data collection models! (Yes, we'd like to, but you've never presented any in a form that is interpretable by non-cult members.) Just like all divinely inspired free energy saviours -- there have been many -- you are so sure that your "theory" predicts a working device that you are willing to lie and cheat, make false promises, "expectations not met" in order to keep your operation going in the hope that someone, some day may actually make something that Runs Itself, with No Input, No Exhaust, just "net" energy output converted to electricity that you can run your home on. 

Yes, I'm here posting too. Problem is, I don't have a world to save, so my time is my own.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #559 on: March 05, 2014, 03:13:44 PM »
Really - don't want me to refute your theory?? But you are allowed to pot shot mine....

TO all:

The ladder of a break thru technology is a hard climb - and change is hard for many people.

Navigating thru the resistance creates many set backs.

I stand behind every statement I have ever made - for the hope, the expectation, and the plan at that time.

But be real - Change happen's and people like these clowns - are forgotten.

..............

Mark Dansie is a very good man, and he has busted his tail, been honest and firm in his trusted role as a real skeptic.

Times and events may change - But my loyalty to those that gave direction, guidance, and connections - will remain solid as a rock.

That may result in different expectations and plans - as proven by powercatt.

Powercatt - you have chronicled the birthing pains of free energy.
In your hands, Travis, the "free energy" is stillborn. Where's the crying, wetting baby? No where but in your dreams.

And you, Travis, are finally coming closer and closer to telling the Truth. You do not have any "5hp net" device that truly runs itself, producing that 5 hp over and above the "zero input" cost of running it. You expected to have one at the time....so it was "true" then what you said, and now you no longer mention it nor will you answer the simple direct "yes or no" question about it that has been asked of you so many times.

You have dreams, plans, expectations. You do NOT have what you clearly claimed to have: a self running machine that makes usable excess energy output. Feel free to PROVE ME WRONG by showing one to someone. But you cannot, you will never be able to, and in some dark part of that brain of yours know that you can't.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #559 on: March 05, 2014, 03:13:44 PM »
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Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #560 on: March 05, 2014, 04:09:43 PM »
Yes, I'm here posting too. Problem is, I don't have a world to save, so my time is my own.

Are you Going help Monderask - or the regular

Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #561 on: March 05, 2014, 04:13:39 PM »
In your hands, Travis, the "free energy" is stillborn. Where's the crying, wetting baby? No where but in your dreams.

And you, Travis, are finally coming closer and closer to telling the Truth. You do not have any "5hp net" device that truly runs itself, producing that 5 hp over and above the "zero input" cost of running it. You expected to have one at the time....so it was "true" then what you said, and now you no longer mention it nor will you answer the simple direct "yes or no" question about it that has been asked of you so many times.

You have dreams, plans, expectations. You do NOT have what you clearly claimed to have: a self running machine that makes usable excess energy output. Feel free to PROVE ME WRONG by showing one to someone. But you cannot, you will never be able to, and in some dark part of that brain of yours know that you can't.

Not your thread - not your machine - and above your pay grade -if you learn the system or help Monderask - great

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #561 on: March 05, 2014, 04:13:39 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #562 on: March 05, 2014, 07:30:05 PM »
Are you Going help Monderask - or the regular

Ignorant buffoon.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #563 on: March 05, 2014, 07:31:31 PM »
Not your thread - not your machine - and above your pay grade -if you learn the system or help Monderask - great

So you think this is YOUR thread, then? And you are right about one thing.... you cannot buy ME.

Why don't you AT LEAST learn to spell M. Ondrasek's name properly, you ignorant buffoon.

You have dreams, plans, expectations. You do NOT have what you clearly claimed to have: a self running machine that makes usable excess energy output. Feel free to PROVE ME WRONG by showing one to someone. But you cannot, you will never be able to, and in some dark part of that brain of yours know that you can't.

And every single post you make that DOES NOT provide real evidence for your claims, the more people reading here will be convinced you  cannot do it. So keep up the major work of making these posts here, Wayne Travis. Your employees are wondering why you spend so much time on internet forums promulgating your false claims instead of WORKING FOR A LIVING.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #563 on: March 05, 2014, 07:31:31 PM »
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Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #564 on: March 05, 2014, 10:49:37 PM »
So you think this is YOUR thread, then? And you are right about one thing.... you cannot buy ME.

Why don't you AT LEAST learn to spell M. Ondrasek's name properly, you ignorant buffoon.

You have dreams, plans, expectations. You do NOT have what you clearly claimed to have: a self running machine that makes usable excess energy output. Feel free to PROVE ME WRONG by showing one to someone. But you cannot, you will never be able to, and in some dark part of that brain of yours know that you can't.

And every single post you make that DOES NOT provide real evidence for your claims, the more people reading here will be convinced you  cannot do it. So keep up the major work of making these posts here, Wayne Travis. Your employees are wondering why you spend so much time on internet forums promulgating your false claims instead of WORKING FOR A LIVING.

I am sorry Tk,

I do not recall agreeing to explain the details of my life to you - nor asking your permission to share our technology.

You are welcome to Learn the system to help Mike, or Webby, or Larry.


Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #565 on: March 05, 2014, 10:51:22 PM »
Really - don't want me to refute your theory?? But you are allowed to pot shot mine....

TO all:

The ladder of a break thru technology is a hard climb - and change is hard for many people.
That may be true, but it is completely inapplicable to your situation, because you have no break through.  You have nothing of value.  And you certainly do not have anything that either alters the conservative nature of gravity or allows you to supply endless and abundant clean energy as you falsely claim.
Quote

Navigating thru the resistance creates many set backs.
Ah yes there it is, the Tinkerbell Theorem:  "We can't deliver on our false claims because people don't believe in our false claims."
Quote

I stand behind every statement I have ever made - for the hope, the expectation, and the plan at that time.
We may yet get to see you attempt to stand up for your lies before a judge.
Quote

But be real - Change happen's and people like these clowns - are forgotten.
Most scams are forgotten.  That's good for new scammers.  It's a little bit harder to burn people who have other similar scams fresh in their minds.
Quote

..............

Mark Dansie is a very good man, and he has busted his tail, been honest and firm in his trusted role as a real skeptic.
Yes, he seems a good person.  Yet, you abuse that by attempting to appropriate his name with false suggestions of endorsement that he has never offered and does not offer now.
Quote

Times and events may change - But my loyalty to those that gave direction, guidance, and connections - will remain solid as a rock.
How nice that you will forgive people as on their own schedules they eventually recognize that you do not have and have never had what you claim.
Quote

That may result in different expectations and plans - as proven by powercatt.
There it is again:  You claiming that others are responsible for your failure to deliver.  Your failure to deliver is the direct result of your claims always having been false.
Quote

Powercatt - you have chronicled the birthing pains of free energy.
If that is true, then there will never be any free energy.  You certainly don't have any.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #565 on: March 05, 2014, 10:51:22 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #566 on: March 05, 2014, 10:56:09 PM »
Just trying to get focus back on topic here.  This is a drawing of the same ZED system MarkE and I have been Analyzing, but with only the inner riser.  And the pod is now a simple displacement block to minimize the input water needed to charge the system from State 1 to State 2.

Please note that in State 1, there are zero buoyant Forces on the riser. 
I agree that State 1 is in equilibrium.
Quote
However, buoyancy Forces are induced, or "turned on", as the 37 mm water charge is introduced to the inner annulus (what remains of the old pod chamber).
I object to this improper claim that buoyancy forces are "turned on".  Force builds from zero linearly and incrementally as water pumped in is forced around the obstacles in its path.  There is no "on" state or contrary "off" state.
Quote

State 3 is shown after the single riser has been allowed to lift until the buoyancy Forces present in State 2 are completely resolved again to zero.  The riser in State 3 is again experiencing zero buoyancy Forces.
Forces don't resolve.  Acceleration stops when net force reaches zero.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #567 on: March 05, 2014, 10:59:58 PM »
Not your thread - not your machine - and above your pay grade -if you learn the system or help Monderask - great
Neither is this your thread.  You are a guest with no more authority here than anyone else.  Yet, you talk as though you carry authority you don't have.  If you really want to claim that after six years of failing to deliver even one proof of concept that you do not understand that contrary to your claims, gravity is always conservative, then you say a lot about what your pay grade should be.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #568 on: March 05, 2014, 11:13:27 PM »
I think I got these correct,, I took them out of MarkE's spreadsheet.
Deriving is not the same as taking.  Kindly do not misrepresent what I have published.
Quote

This is the virtual water displaced.

The first column is the inner surface area of the risers, the bottom surface area of the pod. 

The second column is the head, that is the difference in water column heights.

The last number is cubic mm,, all these numbers are in mm in the spreadsheet.


End of state 2
314.16  x   37              = 11623.92       pod
530.93  x  57.873        = 30726.51189  riser 1   
907.92  x   44.55          = 40447.836     riser 2
1385.44 x   36.218        = 50177.86592  riser 3

30726.51189+11623.92+40447.836+50177.86592 = 132976.13381

132.976cc <= virtual volume of water displaced


End of state 3
132.976 x  30.996   = 3990.077856  pod
530.93  x  37.97      = 20159.4121   riser 1
907.92  x  18.82      = 17087.0544   riser 2
1385.44 x  4.613      = 6391.03472   riser 3

6391.03472+17087.0544+20159.4121+3990.077856 = 47627.579076

47.627cc  <= virtual volume of water still displaced


But more interestingly, this was all made by the addition of  only 3.108cc of real water into the pod chamber.
Are you completely unfamiliar with Archimede's Paradox?  The reason that you refer to it as "virtual" water is that it is the equivalent volume of displaced water. 

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #569 on: March 05, 2014, 11:15:28 PM »
When I talk about force, as in cause and effect, you tell me that force is not energy, so I found myself assuming that you were saying that energy causes motion,, so I asked.

I do not see in your spreadsheet where you are calculating the virtual water that is both created and displaced by the addition of water into the pod chamber.

The pod is the filler for the first riser.
The first riser is the filler for the second riser.
The second riser is the filler for the third riser.
The water levels are all calculated.

 

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