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Author Topic: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED  (Read 414318 times)

Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #360 on: March 04, 2014, 02:09:20 AM »
It's incredible watching Wayne ply his craft.  It's very similar to debating with John Rohner.  In both cases they post incomprehensible goop and pretend that they are actually saying something valid.

I really hope this one ends where the good guys win.  It's soooo creepy to see this stuff happening in real time.  There must be a lot of passive observers reading this thread that can distinguish right from wrong.  It's incredible how so many of them remain mute in the presence of such wrong.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing."

- Edmund Burke (1729-97)


Is that your version of a "triumph"???

Sad.





Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #360 on: March 04, 2014, 02:09:20 AM »

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #361 on: March 04, 2014, 02:13:22 AM »
Regarding State one:

Monderask is discussing an Mathematical Analysis of an ideal ZED.

His stated his purpose is to discuss Pv difference between a single and three layer system.

...............

MarkE You jump to the conclusion that you have analyzed a ZED in Operation.

These are two separate subjects - as I clearly and complete shared a complete ZED operation.

...............

It is a mistake to assume that state 1 as Monderask described in his Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED is the same as the state 1 I described - which is sunk ZED - with enough differential pressure to maintain neutral buoyancy of added weight or risers.

While ZED B is a Fully stroke ZED at the end of a determined and limited stroke - with a load balancing differential intact.

....................

MarkE slow down, we are not attacking you, if you make these mistakes on purpose - that is wrong.

Wayne
Wayne Travis, do you now speak for Mondrasek?  If you don't and you aren't a mind reader then you had better let him speak for himself.  As for you, you approved of his stipulations and applauded his work.  Now that your minion Webby has noticed Archimedes' Principle acting on 21.5mm riser height that Mondrasek's stipulation ignored, what have you to say about that stipulation that you approved?

There is no mistaking that whether one starts with Mondrasek's stipulation or any real arrangement that the most efficient ZED that anyone can design is outperformed by a brick.

Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #362 on: March 04, 2014, 02:14:19 AM »
Webby you cannot have it both ways.  Either you accept Mondrasek's: Wayne Travis approved State 1 or you don't.  If you accept it then State 3 falls out as shown.  If you don't accept it then you change the problem.  So pick your poison:  State 1 as stipulated by Mondrasek and approved by Wayne Travis with State 3 as the result, or State 1 as your experience tells you which yields a different and still lossy result.

Repost:

Regarding State one:

Monderask is discussing an Mathematical Analysis of an ideal ZED.

Has stated his purpose is to discuss Pv difference between a single and three layer system.

...............

MarkE You jump to the conclusion that you have analyzed a ZED in Operation.

These are two separate subjects - as I clearly and complete shared a complete ZED operation.

...............

It is a mistake to assume that state 1 as Monderask described in his Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED is the same as the state 1 I described - which is sunk ZED - with enough differential pressure to maintain neutral buoyancy of added weight or risers.

While ZED B is a Fully stroke ZED at the end of a determined and limited stroke - with a load balancing differential intact.

....................

I hope you can see the difference

Wayne

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #362 on: March 04, 2014, 02:14:19 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #363 on: March 04, 2014, 02:19:29 AM »
See how incredibly creepy he is?  He is playing the MIB card and he is playing it to a specific type of audience.

I really and truly hope that you make the national media Wayne for all the right reasons.
Wayne has crawled over a bear trap with his fly undone.  Of course Wayne tells us that he is not seeking new investment.  Of course that would mean that he has no concerns that any prospective investors could be watching as he approved Mondrasek's non-physical stipulation, or as the inevitable result with or without that stipulation is a machine that is just a lossy piece of junk.  Of course he wouldn't be worried that it would dawn on a new prospective investor that all the HER / Zydro charade amounts to is a game of three card monty.  We know that because the self-declared the God fearing, Jesus loving Wayne Travis told us he isn't seeking any new investors.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #364 on: March 04, 2014, 02:24:06 AM »
Wayne Travis, do you now speak for Mondrasek?  If you don't and you aren't a mind reader then you had better let him speak for himself.  As for you, you approved of his stipulations and applauded his work.  Now that your minion Webby has noticed Archimedes' Principle acting on 21.5mm riser height that Mondrasek's stipulation ignored, what have you to say about that stipulation that you approved?

There is no mistaking that whether one starts with Mondrasek's stipulation or any real arrangement that the most efficient ZED that anyone can design is outperformed by a brick.

MarkE

I applaud due diligence, I ignore your comments and assumptions and bogus conclusions.

If you do you math right - I know the conclusion - will you have the honor to admit it - I know you have not finished - because the Math does not lie.

It could turn out that you are smarter than the 40 plus engineers that have traveled this road - that would be fantastic - but then we would have to solve why it works in the physical???

We will see if you do.

I know it will be hard for you - you have dished out so much fodder - it is going to be hard to swallow.

I tried very very hard to warn you. I find no pleasure in your errors.

................

Monderask can speak for himself - and has.

................

I presented the "operational states" so that you could make a true conclusion - nothing to do with Monderasks State 1 or any other.

................

Take care.

Wayne

 

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #364 on: March 04, 2014, 02:24:06 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #365 on: March 04, 2014, 02:26:59 AM »
Repost:

Regarding State one:

Monderask is discussing an Mathematical Analysis of an ideal ZED.
Yep, stick with that:  An ideal ZED as you approved the description that relies on Mondrasek's State 1 stipulation.  Remember you approved that.
Quote

Has stated his purpose is to discuss Pv difference between a single and three layer system.
No Wayne, Mondrasek never stated such a thing, but it is nice that you repeat your lies so that all can see that is intentional.
Quote

...............

MarkE You jump to the conclusion that you have analyzed a ZED in Operation.
No, many including I have shown that the ZED is an overcomplicated weight lifting and dropping machine that is completely useless and incapable of generating the free energy that you falsely claim it does.
Quote

These are two separate subjects - as I clearly and complete shared a complete ZED operation.
Oh really?  Many have asked for that.  Please point to the specific post where you laid out the official analysis of a ZED, including the part where the free energy supposedly comes from.  You can't, because you never issued such a post.  Your claim that you did is just another of your shameless lies.
Quote

...............

It is a mistake to assume that state 1 as Monderask described in his Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED is the same as the state 1 I described - which is sunk ZED - with enough differential pressure to maintain neutral buoyancy of added weight or risers.
It doesn't matter what you call your first state.  You declared your approval of Mondrasek's set-up as an "ideal ZED".  A real, non-ideal machine can never outperform the idealized model.  Since Mondrasek's model you approved is useless, you have admitted that your heap of junk is similarly useless as it is.
Quote

While ZED B is a Fully stroke ZED at the end of a determined and limited stroke - with a load balancing differential intact.

....................

I hope you can see the difference

Wayne
There is lots to see.  Your shameless carnival barker routine is one of them.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #366 on: March 04, 2014, 02:28:13 AM »
Is that your version of a "triumph" ???

Sad.

That's not sad.

This is sad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKctCl_pr7A

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #366 on: March 04, 2014, 02:28:13 AM »
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Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #367 on: March 04, 2014, 02:29:21 AM »
God fearing, Jesus loving Wayne Travis told us he isn't seeking any new investors.

You honor me.

Wayne

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #368 on: March 04, 2014, 02:29:39 AM »
I do not need it both ways, it is only one way.

State 1 is a net zero condition of forces acting on the risers and pod, and so for a full analysis the end of state 3 MUST also be a net zero.

Allow your risers to lift far enough so that the sum of all forces acting on them is zero, then what do you get?
If there is zero net up force in State 1, then at the raised position of 1.4688mm of State 3 there is no net up force either.  If there is up force in State 3 at 1.4688mm lift then there is also up force in State 1 and you must reject Mondrasek's stipulation.  Choose one or the other.  It doesn't matter.  The machine is lossy in either case for the same reasons.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #368 on: March 04, 2014, 02:29:39 AM »
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Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #369 on: March 04, 2014, 02:30:32 AM »
That's not sad.

This is sad:


Show me your contributions to freedom from fossil fuels.

Thanks

Offline MileHigh

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #370 on: March 04, 2014, 02:30:53 AM »
Webby:

I am not following the technical discussion in detail.  However, I have read MarkE's postings for more than a year and I know how to qualify people.  Mark is the real thing.  Likewise, you can sometimes determine that somebody is clueless with respect to electronics in five sentences or less.

It's really too bad that you can't see the forest for the trees.

Wayne:

Quote
Is that your version of a "triumph"

Astute people will know who the evil one is.  And it is sad indeed that in this day and age, with all the access to information and the ability to inform oneself, that this can happen.  You are preying on the human condition and exploiting it for your own personal gain.

MileHigh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #370 on: March 04, 2014, 02:30:53 AM »
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Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #371 on: March 04, 2014, 02:35:40 AM »
Please point to the specific post where you laid out the official analysis of a ZED, including the part where the free energy supposedly comes from. 

Sure, can't believe you keep missing this....

 Conditions   At least three layers Each ZED:
ZED A Sunk remaining head due to riser weight and any added weight - ZED A  will be the receiving ZED,

ZED B is at the end of delivering a load and in the raised position - and was not allowed to Bob up after the load was removed.

.................

State one - Start with sunk - still head remaining - equal to the weight of the risers - and any additional load. (additional load is sometimes used to reduce time by reducing expansion and contraction during cycles)
p.s. Adding weight is counter intuitive - most people assume adding weight induces losses

Lesson to be learned - trying to achieve Ideal usage results in self determined conservative process.

The next state is post free flow - this is where the other ZED A and B have equalized between the stroked ZED and the sunk ZED. No riser movement in either ZED - only fluid and pressure.

Note: Free flow results in equalized pressure - but not equalized volume.

The next State is changing from Free flow too "precharge"

Full precharge is the end of the state between free flow and enough buoyancy to nuetralize the determined load and no riser movement either ZED.

The process to get to the full precharge state - two inputs are utilized :

One - the continued consumption of pressure from the ZED B - and the hydro assist.

The hydro assist adds enough pressure - that when combined with the exhuast from the other ZED - reaches load neutrality (buoyancy). This is full precharge for ZED A.

Note: ZED B will not sink until the stored head has dropped below nuetrality of the risers and any added weight.

The Hydro Assist continues to be combined with the Pressure from ZED B - the input cost is the differance between the sinking ZED pressure and the stroking pressure required.

The next state is the Production Stroke of ZED A. ZED A stroking and ZED B sunk is the first half of a Dual ZED cycle - the process repeats in the other direction - notice I did not say reverses.

.................

To understand Stroke - you must determine both the proper load and the proper stroke.

The proper load is the lift safely available at the determined end of stroke.

Iterations are helpful..... I will give you a rule of thumb - Do not make the stroke longer than 1/11 the height of the ZED.
(another counter intuitive - short stroke is a more efficient process)

Use your baseline calculator already prepared to determine what the load is at that height - and that is a good load - presuming riser weight and any added weight has already been considered.

.........................

Unlike the states Mark described - the precharge and stroke is only released into the other ZED - not bobbed up or consumed as production.

The transfer of the precharge and Stroke is made mechanically more efficient as Webby described and posted two of our methods.

but you do not need to add those improvements to find the outcome.


.......................

Last notes - when the full precharge is reached - any additional volume input into the ZED A results in production - so once precharge is hit - no consumption of the previous pressure occurs - the ZED B hits bottom at the end of the production stroke on ZED A.

In simple observation - the true cost of a stroke half cycle is all of the Hydro assist - which is also the stroking Pv ZED A, minus the sinking ZED B Pv, and then repeat for a full cycle.

The production cycle is both ZEDS having produced once and combined.

A full cycle is a return of ZED A to "Sunk.   

MarkE - if you do understand these States - you should be able to see how we transfer two sets of PV left and right - not consuming that value and truely reducing the total input cost - the remaining input cost is the hydro assist.

Lastly - the Hydro Assist can be a external input - or powered by the Production leaving excess. When you determine the cost of the Hydro Assist versus the production - you will understand why I have been so patient.

The Excess or Net per half cycle is no more than the value between the Pv sinking and the production - Not magical - but free.

And if you can't understand - Larry makes a pretty decent spread sheet. that covers the whole process.

Hope that helps.

Wayne

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #372 on: March 04, 2014, 02:35:45 AM »
MarkE

I applaud due diligence, I ignore your comments and assumptions and bogus conclusions.

If you do you math right - I know the conclusion - will you have the honor to admit it - I know you have not finished - because the Math does not lie.
Math unlike you may not lie.  Your claims of free energy generation, violation of the conservative nature of gravity are complete bald-faced lies, knowingly or recklessly made to investors.  See the Acts 1933, and 1934.
Quote

It could turn out that you are smarter than the 40 plus engineers that have traveled this road - that would be fantastic - but then we would have to solve why it works in the physical???
If by "works in the physical" you mean a machine that delivers the free energy you claim, you have never built such a machine.
Quote

We will see if you do.

I know it will be hard for you - you have dished out so much fodder - it is going to be hard to swallow.

I tried very very hard to warn you. I find no pleasure in your errors.
Tell me again in simple, easy to understand terms just what it is you claim to be warning me about.  Kindly state the specific consequences and by what means they will come about.
Quote

................

Monderask can speak for himself - and has.

................

I presented the "operational states" so that you could make a true conclusion - nothing to do with Monderasks State 1 or any other.

................

Take care.

Wayne

 
In that video Tinsel Koala just posted you look real perty.  I asked Bubba about it and he agrees.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #373 on: March 04, 2014, 02:37:25 AM »
Sure, can't believe you keep missing this....

...Useless wall of text, free of any supporting math or diagrams...
Yes, all you do is wave those oh so perty hands of yours.  Don't wave them too much or Bubba may get overly excited.

Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #374 on: March 04, 2014, 02:38:11 AM »
Webby:

Wayne:

Astute people will know who the evil one is.  And it is sad indeed that in this day and age, with all the access to information and the ability to inform oneself, that this can happen.  You are preying on the human condition and exploiting it for your own personal gain.

MileHigh

How will you repent when you realize you were on the wrong side of truth...

You have wronged me, injusted me, slandered me, and acted the complete fodder spreader.

And many people have taken the time to realize I am telling the truth - and you have not.

Good day

 

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