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Author Topic: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED  (Read 414723 times)

Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #315 on: March 03, 2014, 02:57:19 PM »
To All;

The Word ideal In our ZED, is merely the MAX calculated static condition with the Risers At the lowest position and the pressure differentials at the highest point.

Going from lowest to highest is a simple exercise with no benefits.

In my previous post, I outlined the process in which to utilize the Calcs to determine stroke and select the load.

And then the states in which to operate a full cycle.

......................

All of this information was shared Two years ago, and then again last year.

And the result was the same as last night - pages and pages of disruption without a brain.

Except Energyliberia.

.......................

Since the inception of the NET Energy producing system - We worked hard to develop the systems, business, contact, and friendships.

I have put up with the nonsense from TK and his bandwagon now for two years for this reason.

Now we are hiring, we have Turn Key funding. We have selected 18 of our start up of 27 members.

We are hiring now, and we have temporary offices while our world class LEED building is being built.

.............................

We have Patent application pending in almost every county - some granted - some being exercised.

If you are interested in Clean and Green energy future - that has the only Alternative ON DEMAND CAPABILITY:

Welcome, our door has been open.

Wayne Travis

ZydroEnergy.com






Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #315 on: March 03, 2014, 02:57:19 PM »

Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #316 on: March 03, 2014, 03:01:00 PM »
So from this description, the most efficient embodiment of the device would be to connect the 'Excess Output' directly to the input of this 'hydro assist system' and use it in the same stroke... would you agree?



If the timing was of production was precisely that of Hydro assist - yes - it is not.

Production occurs after full precharge - and free flow to precharge requires Hydro assist - in the old model (the one in discussion)..

And with the new model - no hydro assist. Better Bird.

Wayne

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #317 on: March 03, 2014, 03:02:53 PM »
So boys and girls exactly as stated for exactly the reasons stated, the "Ideal ZED" loses a great deal of its stored energy going from State 2 to State 3.  Why did the crack team at HER/Zydro think that an iterative solution is required to this simple fluid mechanics problem?  Why did Mondrasek refuse to discuss the exact physics that explains the loss going from State 2 to State 3?  Why does HER/Zydro insist that there is gain to be had in conservative and lossy behaviors?  Why does anyone think that lifting and dropping weights in any form leads to free energy?

MarkE, please look at the ZED in State 3.  There is still a positive water head on the pod and each riser!  Therefore there is still much buoyant Force to be resolved.  Ego, the ZED could NOT come to rest in this condition.  It must stroke further if unrestrained.  This proves that the ASSUMPTION that Energy in is equal to Energy out was wrong.  Unless you have some other way to resolve the remaining buoyant Force without more stroke?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #317 on: March 03, 2014, 03:02:53 PM »
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Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #318 on: March 03, 2014, 03:05:13 PM »

Mark:

That is very funny indeed.  Energy checks in but it doesn't check out.

Excellent terminology and very, very funny.

Well done.

Bill

I realize you did not mean this seriously;

But you are right regarding the Set up pressures - the first time you introduce the differential density fluids - and set them up to the sunk and stroked position - that requires external input.

That input never leaves the system - and is continually recycled.

SO check in never check out - exactly

Wayne
« Last Edit: March 03, 2014, 05:18:20 PM by mrwayne »

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #319 on: March 03, 2014, 03:14:59 PM »
I'd wondered why Wayne stopped at having just two devices connected though. Using his thinking adding more connected together would offer far higher chance of success. Even in its current form, with a bit of pre-charge the IZED, (infinite Zed) might actually work long enough to convince investors it worked. In fact it would be hard to argue that it didn't.
If you have too many Red Herrings, things start to smell pretty fishy. Besides, a three-pronged teeter-totter is clearly just too weird.


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #319 on: March 03, 2014, 03:14:59 PM »
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Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #320 on: March 03, 2014, 03:15:52 PM »
I'd wondered why Wayne stopped at having just two devices connected though. Using his thinking adding more connected together would offer far higher chance of success. Even in its current form, with a bit of pre-charge the IZED, (infinite Zed) might actually work long enough to convince investors it worked. In fact it would be hard to argue that it didn't.

The design of the system was just to mechanically amply force - by request we spent the money to self loop itself - even in its infant stage of development - with no engineering - that was possible.

Once again here is the link to that self contained closed loop system

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-0TITC4Wrc

The arguments will always come from some...

Thank You

The Working system is not what was needed in the end - to gain the funding - it is character, our actual business plan, and the simple math - and blessing from God.

Thanks.


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #321 on: March 03, 2014, 03:17:38 PM »
I realize you did not mean this seriously;

But you are right regarding the Set up pressures - the first time you introduce the differential density fluids - and set them up to the sunk and stroked position - that requires external input.

That input never leaves the system - and is continually recycled.

SO check ion never check out - exactly

Wayne

Then why do your machines ALWAYS STOP after a few minutes or hours unless they are driven from the outside? Still having "leak" problems? That precharge just keeps leaking away, doesn't it.

Show the sausages, Mister Wayne, or admit that you have none.

Minnie asked you a question, politely, several times. Why are you not answering him directly, without misdirection and stalling, waffling about?

I know why, and so does everybody else including Webby and LarryC.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #321 on: March 03, 2014, 03:17:38 PM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #322 on: March 03, 2014, 03:22:31 PM »
The design of the system was just to mechanically amply force - by request we spent the money to self loop itself - even in its infant stage of development - with no engineering - that was possible.

Once again here is the link to that self contained closed loop system

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-0TITC4Wrc

The arguments will always come from some...

Thank You

The Working system is not what was needed in the end - to gain the funding - it is character, our actual business plan, and the simple math - and blessing from God.

Thanks.
Now you are piling lie upon untruth. Mark Dansie DID NOT CERTIFY that system as self running. It has a tummy ache on one side, to boot. And you are practically admitting in this statement that you do not in fact have a self runner any more than my Heron's Fountain is a self-runner.  You can waffle about and dodge the direct question as much as you like, you can invoke God's blessings... but you cannot deny that for some reason, God did not permit you to put up that 50 kW plant that you "expected" to be able to install at TBC years ago.
Thou shalt not take the name of thy God in vain, mister Wayne, and someday you will have to account for your Zeds and your business plan before an Authority with whom you cannot argue.

Offline Marsing

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #323 on: March 03, 2014, 03:27:39 PM »
I realize you did not mean this seriously;

But you are right regarding the Set up pressures - the first time you introduce the differential density fluids - and set them up to the sunk and stroked position - that requires external input.

That input never leaves the system - and is continually recycled.

SO check ion never check out - exactly

Wayne


The bad thing so far there is no energy can be extracted from the system.
every cycle you need to allocate some external energy                  .......... ALWAYS.......       ::) :o

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #323 on: March 03, 2014, 03:27:39 PM »
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Offline mondrasek

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #324 on: March 03, 2014, 03:44:01 PM »
MarkE, I was going to draw your State 3 and dimension the remaining heads on the pod and each riser that need to be resolved.  But I ran into an error with your stated water height in AR2: 49.651mm.  That is obviously not correct.  Could you provide the correct value?  And you should try calculating the buoyant Forces that remain on the pod and each riser that still need to be resolved.  The ZED cannot remain in the position you show in State 3 unless restrained.  It has more Energy that needs to be released due to the still remaining buoyant Forces.

I would have liked to just present my own diagrams again, but I see you calculated the rise based on Volume in = Volume out.  This is another error since there is a third Volume of air that is interacting with the system by the nature of the outer annulus being open to the atmosphere.

I calculated my lift distance based on the ASSUMPTION that Energy in = Energy out, not by simple volumes.  That results in a stroke that should be 1.9094mm.  But the results are similar in that the system could not come to rest at that larger lift distance either.  There is still 31.828 grams of buoyant lift force at that larger lift distance.  So again, the lift would have to be even further to resolve the remaining buoyant Forces.

And FWIF, no iterations need to be performed for this simple analysis.  The iterations would be needed (for me at least) to find the final resting state of the charged ZED.  That state requires that the sum of all the internal buoyant Forces be zero.  That is definitely not the case in your State 3, nor in the one I calculated via an Energy Balance approach.

Offline Marsing

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #325 on: March 03, 2014, 03:52:09 PM »
The design of the system was just to mechanically amply force - by request we spent the money to self loop itself - even in its infant stage of development - with no engineering - that was possible.

Once again here is the link to that self contained closed loop system

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-0TITC4Wrc

The arguments will always come from some...

Thank You

The Working system is not what was needed in the end - to gain the funding - it is character, our actual business plan, and the simple math - and blessing from God.

Thanks.

The Working system is not what was needed in the end - to gain the funding - it is character, our actual business plan, and the simple math - and blessing from God.

what is this mean ?


Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #325 on: March 03, 2014, 03:52:09 PM »
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Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #326 on: March 03, 2014, 05:03:59 PM »

The bad thing so far there is no energy can be extracted from the system.
every cycle you need to allocate some external energy                  .......... ALWAYS.......       ::) :o

DOn't know what you are referring to?

The LOAD - is the energy extracted, with every half cycle?

We use Hydraulic production as the load - because it can be used to both apply Hydro assist and rotational output to a generator (thru a hydraulic motor).

Thanks

Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #327 on: March 03, 2014, 05:16:39 PM »
The Working system is not what was needed in the end - to gain the funding - it is character, our actual business plan, and the simple math - and blessing from God.

what is this mean ?

Good Question..

It means that clear minds do not refute the obvious - they try to understand.

The obvious - is this - if the total input to output is near 100% and then the original input can be recycled to reduce the cost of another cycle - you have a simple method of defeating conservative outputs.

In our original model - we recycled over 57%

It also means:e If a system dos not work simply.............complex Calcs do not and will not make it work either, complex math is good for explaining, and opening minds.

So when it does work simply - experienced minds value the simple.

Lastly - the comment was in reference to our blessing to have found the people who can see the obvious and experienced enough to value the simple.

I hope this helps.

Wayne



Offline Marsing

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #328 on: March 03, 2014, 05:23:47 PM »
DOn't know what you are referring to?

The LOAD - is the energy extracted, with every half cycle?

We use Hydraulic production as the load - because it can be used to both apply Hydro assist and rotational output to a generator (thru a hydraulic motor).

Thanks

Eout - Ein =  extracted energy,  and of course with full cycle

do you have a self running machine ?

Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #329 on: March 03, 2014, 05:28:59 PM »
I'd wondered why Wayne stopped at having just two devices connected though. Using his thinking adding more connected together would offer far higher chance of success. Even in its current form, with a bit of pre-charge the IZED, (infinite Zed) might actually work long enough to convince investors it worked. In fact it would be hard to argue that it didn't.

Two years ago - one of the TK "likes" said something Similar - meant to be an insult:

Why not just continue hooking the ZEDs together to forever..

In reality - the layering system works in much the same effect - but with reduced Capital cost and reduced foot print.

Net is the Product - two Six Layer ZEDs can be optimized to put out the same Net production as four three layer systems, in roughly the same foot print.

............

So it is a business decision - and a structural mechanical (Cost) limitation - to continue to up size each system.

Wayne


 

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