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Author Topic: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED  (Read 515189 times)

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #885 on: March 11, 2014, 12:55:53 AM »
Or, some one of these claimants can simply show the three layer system that is clearly overunity by itself, or the 5HP net self running system that has no input but makes 5HP usable external output power, or even the table-top self-running water pump that surely must exist. After all, the spreadsheets all produce so much excess energy that it's a wonder they don't explode. Certainly, if I had a mechanical system that made, say, 20 percent more energy out than it took to run it.... I know I could make a self running system out of it, even though I'm not worth my salt.  And I'll bet a _real engineer_ wouldn't take three or four years to do it, either.

After all, I've already shown a system that would run itself easily if it only had a couple of percent "extra" energy coming in from somewhere (the SNOT testbed). Give me ten or twenty percent OU and I'll gladly show you how to make a self-runner. Personally, I think that any "engineer" that can't take a 160 percent OU device and make it run itself, or another identical device.... isn't worth his salt. Of course in order to prove these contentions of mine, I'm going to need someone to show me a _real_ system that makes those numbers. A spreadsheet just won't cut it, since it is apparent that the models being used by the spreadsheeters are wrong. The math can be correct all day long, that doesn't make the model correct, and since the spreadsheets don't do what the actual devices do... well, I'm sure you can "do the math" (tm LMM).

Don't forget:
It doesn't matter how smart you are, how beautiful your theory is, or how many decimal places your spreadsheet calculates. If it doesn't agree with experiment... it's wrong. (Paraphrasing R. Feynman)

And we have seen no experimental support for the claims of Honest Wayne Travis, and in fact the experimental data we _have_ seen falsifies his claims.


Of course the entire issue is moot now, since Honest Wayne Travis has admitted that he cannot show "the sausages", meaning that he cannot demonstrate the truthfulness of his claims. He can't show a simple three layer system that is clearly overunity by itself. He can't show a 5HP net self-runner. He certainly can't show a 20 or 50 kW powerplant, nor can he show or tell how he would build one in three months after securing funding. He certainly can't show a flat-packable rotary TAZ that you can buy at Ikea and put in your basement to run your home. He certainly can't discuss anything that is material to any litigation ! In fact, guess what will happen if you follow his patent _application_ exactly and construct what it discloses. That's right... you will not have anything that runs itself. The ZED that can be shown, described, proven... is not the eternal Holy Free Energy ZED!

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #885 on: March 11, 2014, 12:55:53 AM »

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #886 on: March 11, 2014, 01:45:01 AM »
Here is the spreadsheet where I recorded all the values that were generated on the Casio calculator that I used.  The calculations were performed "by hand" so there are no formulas in the spreadsheet except to sum the Energies in each water annulus for each State.  Those are at the bottom and were run as a triple check really.  I'll post the equations used as I get to that point in my explanation of the methods I used, why, and the results that you can see ahead of time if you want to look at the attached data.
It is extremely odd that you choose to use a hand calculator and then manually transcribed resulting values into Excel, explicitly entering much of the data as text.  I am afraid that I must insist that you show the equations that you relied upon, because the numbers don't seem to correspond to the sparse verbage in the spreadsheet.  For example, you list a value for "Riser 1 Air Vol" of 6.479534848cc.  One might think from that label that you are trying to calculate the "air" volume that is under Riser 1.  When I look at the drawing, I see that can be readily computed as the sum of three volumes:  The volumes on either side of the innermost ring wall plus the volume under the "attic" that is above the height of the ring wall and the pod.  That would be:

pi/4*RingWall1_height*(222-202)mm3 +
pi/4*(RingWall1_height - 32.5)*(262-242)mm3 +
pi/4*1*262)mm3
=pi/4*(5124 + 2850 + 676)mm3 = pi/4*8650mm3 = pi/4*8650mm3 = 6793.694113388mm3 = 6.793694113388cc

That does not equal the 6.479534848cc shown in your spreadsheet.  Whatever you are doing, it looks like you are writing down values to ten digits that aren't even accurate to two digits.
Without the equations that you relied upon, there is no audit trail to your work.  There is no way to tell what is incorrect: assumption, model, equation, or transcription.  I don't know how you check your work without writing down the equations that you use to represent your model.  When you show your equations, then I will continue to evaluate what you have done.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #887 on: March 11, 2014, 01:52:47 AM »
Attached is a picture of a spreadsheet and the actual spreadsheet below.


It's shows that doing an Iterative driven Integration, calculating Pressure * Volume for each iteration gives the same results as our use of P average * Volume.


If we were doing an Integration using sensors on a physical system, we couldn't do it that way as each stop and start results in many losses, main ones being momentum and inertial in the Zed. Also, in a physical system, most changes are not linear.


In a small math model like this, it is correct, because it has no losses and the changes are linear. One rule is that you can't use it across multiple SI in one start stop.


I could add the Iterative Integration program to my Analysis of flow spreadsheets, but that would only cause more questions and require more computer time.
Since the ideal case can be described by linear equations, the force versus lift height is readily computed as a constant:  a spring constant.   The force is therefore readily expressed as: F = FSTART + KFORCE*S.  All that is left is to solve the integral which is trivial.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #887 on: March 11, 2014, 01:52:47 AM »
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Offline MileHigh

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #888 on: March 11, 2014, 02:38:37 AM »
Mark, Team Travistastic,

Pay ATTENTION.

This clip has some issues with discontinuities [*rim shot*] but it only adds to the slightly creepy and aethereal feel of it all.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQvFdRGffag



Offline orbut 3000

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #889 on: March 11, 2014, 02:48:49 AM »
Why does mrwayne not simply prove that his claims are true?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #889 on: March 11, 2014, 02:48:49 AM »
Sponsored links:




Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #890 on: March 11, 2014, 03:03:23 AM »
Why does mrwayne not simply prove that his claims are true?
Why indeed?  Suppose that you or I had discovered a way to make energy for free.  The available choices might include:

1) File strong patent application, develop proof of concept, shop licensing or acquisition for billions
2) File strong patent application, develop proof of concept, seed with angel investor money, go public for billions
2) File strong patent application, develop proof of concept, shop VC investment for billions
3) File strong patent application, develop proof of concept, shop Kickstarter or Indiegogo investment for a few million, set up factory

Others might:

File silly patent application that lacks utility and enablement, build multiple props non of which prove the concept, shop mom and pop investors, spend time on obscure message boards waving hands.


Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #891 on: March 11, 2014, 08:15:48 AM »
Why does mrwayne not simply prove that his claims are true?
Why, silly, it's because the evil skeptics and their urd issing sock puppets are so mighty and righteous that they drove him away, again, before he had a chance to show us the scientific papers, the statements from engineers, the actual working prototypes and the ecstatic testimonials from the grateful Church Fathers who are making money selling their surplus electricity back to the grid.

What other possible explanation is there?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #891 on: March 11, 2014, 08:15:48 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #892 on: March 11, 2014, 08:27:06 AM »
Let's have some fun with a simple apparatus that anyone can build for pennies.  All we need is:

An empty 2 liter soda bottle.  An empty 1/2 liter PET water bottle.  A package of soda straws.  Some hot glue.  A hot glue gun.  A knife.  Some tape.  A 1lb or greater weight.

Cut the top off of the 2 liter soda bottle.  Seal off the ends of 18 soda straws with hot glue.  Glue nine of the soda straws to one side of the water bottle and the other nine to the other so that they extend from below the top of the water bottle.  Try to keep them vertically aligned.  Use the knife to pierce a small vent in the bottom of the water bottle in a flat area that can be easily sealed over with tape.  Leave the tape off of the vent.  Make sure that the cap is removed from the water bottle.

Test 1
Insert the water bottle inverted into the upright soda bottle.  Fill the soda bottle to about 2/3s.  Press down on the water bottle until it bottoms and allow the water levels to equalize inside and outside the water bottle.  Let go of the water bottle.  If it does not rise, remove the water bottle and add more sealed soda straws.  Repeat this process until the water bottle rises freely after being bottomed and the water levels equalize.  Record the resting position of the water bottle assembly.

Test 2
Use a weight or your hand to sink the water bottle again.  Note what happens to the water levels initially, and then as time passes.  When the water levels are equal, seal the vent with tape.  Now let go of the bottle and observe what happens.

Test 3
Open the vent and observe what happens.

Consider what your observations during these experiments mean for the various ZEDs.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #893 on: March 11, 2014, 08:29:41 AM »
Here's what mine looks like when the weight has just bottomed it out.  The small vent is open, but the air can only escape so fast as we heat the room by forcing the air through it.  Our gravity fed room heater is working!  Note the straws show that the position of the water bottle is down.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #893 on: March 11, 2014, 08:29:41 AM »
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Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #894 on: March 11, 2014, 08:31:35 AM »
Nicely done!

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #895 on: March 11, 2014, 08:33:23 AM »
Now let's give it time to equalize at the bottom, and then close the vent off with tape.  This should remind of something.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #895 on: March 11, 2014, 08:33:23 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #896 on: March 11, 2014, 08:34:21 AM »
Now let's give it a chance to reach a new equilibrium condition and see what we get.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #897 on: March 11, 2014, 08:39:16 AM »
Nicely done!
Thanks.  I don't do YouTube videos, but I can manage to take a still picture or two.  I wonder if the Wayne's cadre of technical experts can correctly interpret what these experiments mean.  Note that there are no quantitative measurements.  Nor does there need to be in order to understand what they tell us.  Here is a collage to help understanding.

Offline minnie

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #898 on: March 11, 2014, 12:26:25 PM »



  Mark,
         nice to see a bit of empirical evidence, don't know whether it's
    strictly allowable here though. Does show what must happen even,
    though some don't believe.
                                        John.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #899 on: March 11, 2014, 12:38:30 PM »


  Mark,
         nice to see a bit of empirical evidence, don't know whether it's
    strictly allowable here though. Does show what must happen even,
    though some don't believe.
                                        John.
Thanks.  Anyone who doubts the results, or suffers under the misconception that there is anything behind HER/Zydro's curtain can spend a couple of dollars for the materials and a little time to learn the ultimate secrets of the ZED:  1. Gravity is conservative.  2. Buoyancy is just gravity operating on fluids.  3. HER/Zydro's claims to "endless and abundant clean Energy" are absolutely false. 

For added fun glue a plastic rod to the bottom of the 2 liter soda bottle.

 

OneLink