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Author Topic: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED  (Read 405747 times)

Offline minnie

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #630 on: March 06, 2014, 12:19:51 PM »



     Wayne and Larry went up the hill to fetch a pail of water,
     Wayne fell down and broke his crown and Larry came tumbling after.
     And Red_Sunset and Webby and Magluvin and a few others!


     Congratulations to Mondrasek-a true researcher!
                                           John.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #630 on: March 06, 2014, 12:19:51 PM »

Offline minnie

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #631 on: March 06, 2014, 12:30:19 PM »
 
   Question,
                 how much does it cost to pump a little bit of "virtual water"?
                                                      John.

Offline minnie

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #632 on: March 06, 2014, 12:49:17 PM »



   Answer,
               virtually nothing!
                                      John

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #632 on: March 06, 2014, 12:49:17 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline powercat

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #633 on: March 06, 2014, 01:01:30 PM »
Step right up and get 10 better than "ideal ZED" devices for less than $12.00!  These devices require no precharge, have no set-up losses, occupy a tiny fraction of the volume of the "ideal ZED", can store more than 10 times more accsessible energy than the "ideal ZED", don't leak, work in any orientation, don't lose fluid to evaporation, and don't corrode themselves with water!  What they have is the same force versus distance constant as the "ideal ZED".  Instead of a fully extended envelope of greater than 69.5mm H x 46mm Dia, these babies are less than 15mm long by 3mm diameter.  IOW they fit in less than 1/1000th the volume of the "ideal ZED" while exactly matching the "ideal ZED" transfer function, without any of the complexity or headaches.  That's right:  They have more than 10,000 times the accessible volumetric energy density as the "ideal ZED".  And did someone mention cycle rate?  The self resonant frequency of these springs is in the thousands of cycles per second.  How fast can a ZED cycle?  All that and they cost less than $1.20 each when you buy 10 at a time and save!

http://www.amazon.com/Compression-Spring-Stainless-Compressed-Capacity/dp/tech-data/B005S4HDZ8

Compression Spring, Stainless Steel, Metric, 2.82 mm OD, 0.32 mm Wire Size, 6.1 mm Compressed Length, 14.2 mm Free Length, 3.91 N Load Capacity, 0.48 N/mm Spring Rate (Pack of 10) Price:    $11.73


WoW they sound fantastic, what an amazing product, I really need some of them now, but before I part with my $ can I see one running ? and producing excess energy ?  That's the big question, hope you'r ZED isn't like Wayne's (doesn't actually worked in reality)

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #634 on: March 06, 2014, 01:29:46 PM »

WoW they sound fantastic, what an amazing product, I really need some of them now, but before I part with my $ can I see one running ? and producing excess energy ?  That's the big question, hope you'r ZED isn't like Wayne's (doesn't actually worked in reality)
These are better than even an "ideal ZED" in every way I said they are.  Unfortunately, just like Wayne's machines, these aren't over unity either.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #634 on: March 06, 2014, 01:29:46 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #635 on: March 06, 2014, 02:21:18 PM »
When I was child - I did not read the instructions either....

As I grew older - I recognized the value of experience - I treasured other peoples teaching and wisdom.

And good morning.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #636 on: March 06, 2014, 02:25:29 PM »
When I was child - I did not read the instructions either....

As I grew older - I recognized the value of experience - I treasured other peoples teaching and wisdom.

And good morning.
It appears that your childhood habits are still with you.  A ~$1. spring does all than the "ideal Zed" does and more, in less than 1/1000th the space.  Is your crack team of technologists looking for a defect in the spreadsheet that shows how the "ideal ZED" does nothing more than a much: smaller, cheaper, simpler, and more reliable linear spring?

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #636 on: March 06, 2014, 02:25:29 PM »
Sponsored links:




Offline minnie

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #637 on: March 06, 2014, 02:51:12 PM »



   Well you've learned a bit today mrwayne, a spring only needs a precharge,
    whereas a ZED needs flow/hydro  assist too.
                          John.

Offline minnie

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #638 on: March 06, 2014, 03:33:41 PM »



    "I treasured other peoples' thinking and wisdom"
      I don't really think you do.  Try asking TK, MarkE,
      Milehigh, Powercat, Librenergie and many more,
      see what they think.
          Why doesn't this bloke do any real work you
       may ask. Well I've got a broken back,  I'm semi
       retired and I'm looking after baby today.
           I wouldn't be doing anything by now if I
        hadn't had some metal rods screwed into my
        spine, so I'm eternally  grateful to all those other
        peoples' thinking and wisdom that have made
        surgery like this possible.
                            John

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #638 on: March 06, 2014, 03:33:41 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #639 on: March 06, 2014, 03:46:22 PM »


    "I treasured other peoples' thinking and wisdom"
      I don't really think you do.  Try asking TK, MarkE,
      Milehigh, Powercat, Librenergie and many more,
      see what they think.
          Why doesn't this bloke do any real work you
       may ask. Well I've got a broken back,  I'm semi
       retired and I'm looking after baby today.
           I wouldn't be doing anything by now if I
        hadn't had some metal rods screwed into my
        spine, so I'm eternally  grateful to all those other
        peoples' thinking and wisdom that have made
        surgery like this possible.
                            John
My prayers for your recovery and good health.

Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #640 on: March 06, 2014, 03:56:48 PM »
I am Pretty sure that Larry Shared the hydro assist cost of a dual ZED, and the production...

You might study it a bit more - smile

Just saying... We do not have a steel spring.... or a brick, or a any other false comparison.

Get Back with me after you Study.

Thanks

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #640 on: March 06, 2014, 03:56:48 PM »
3D Solar Panels

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #641 on: March 06, 2014, 04:11:18 PM »
I am Pretty sure that Larry Shared the hydro assist cost of a three layer dual ZED, and the production...

You might study it a bit more - smile

Just saying... We do not have a steel spring.... or a brick, or a any other false comparison.

Get Back with me after you Study.

Thanks
The analysis shows without doubt that the "ideal ZED" exhibits the transfer function of a linear spring.  The "ideal ZED" has a force versus distance rate that is constant at 0.48N/mm over its available 2.492mm travel. 

A spring is available on Amazon that is less than 1/1000th the volume of the "ideal ZED", that has the same spring rate and offers more than three times the travel, and can be purchased for ~$1.  If that spring is used only over the 2.492mm of its travel from the fully relaxed position, it does exactly what the "ideal ZED" does between States 2 and 3.

So where is the falsity in the comparison?  What can the "ideal ZED" do that the linear spring cannot, other than:  leak, evaporate, spill over, consume more than 1000 times the space, require a complex and lossy set-up and precharge?

You and your crack team of technologists have free access to the spreadsheet.  You are free to try and poke any holes in it that you might.  It is far more complete than anything I have seen Larry or anyone else from HER/Zydro publish.

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #642 on: March 06, 2014, 04:23:45 PM »
Good morning, MarkE.  Here is a physical device that could be used to restrain the ZED from rising.  It consists of an "ideal" Massless and Frictionless piston with the same diameter as the riser.  It is fitted into a bore that is also allowed that same "ideal" diameter.  It is below the surface of the bore by a tiny amount less than the ZED is calculated to rise.  The bore is filled with the same quality of water that is used inside the ZED.  This results in a downward Force due to the weight of the water Volume.  That Volume is slightly less than the Volume of the riser lift that is the result of the buoyant Forces in the upward direction once the water charge is introduce in State 2.  So the piston will begin to rise only at the very end of the charge cycle going from State 1 to State 2.  The ZED is now performing real measureable work by lifting the water above the piston as it strokes to State 3.

Offline mondrasek

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #643 on: March 06, 2014, 04:39:27 PM »
TK, regarding your "peanut oil" comment earlier (sorry, but I'm too lazy to go back and find it).  I was wondering if you, or anyone else, had experience with Pentane?  I did a little bit of research on a low and high density fluid and had settled on Pentane and an Aqueous Sodium Polytungstate solution for candidates to use in a production level ZED system.  Only downside to Pentane though (that I can tell) is it is flammable.  Any thoughts?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentane

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_metatungstate

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #644 on: March 06, 2014, 05:06:37 PM »
Good morning, MarkE.  Here is a physical device that could be used to restrain the ZED from rising.  It consists of an "ideal" Massless and Frictionless piston with the same diameter as the riser.  It is fitted into a bore that is also allowed that same "ideal" bore.  It is below the surface of the bore by a tiny amount less than the ZED is calculated to rise.  The bore is filled with the same quality of water that is used inside the ZED.  This results in a downward Force due to the weight of the water Volume.  That Volume is slightly less than the Volume of the riser lift that is the result of the buoyant Forces in the upward direction once the water charge is introduce in State 2.  So the piston will begin to rise only at the very end of the charge cycle going from State 1 to State 2.  The ZED is now performing real measureable work by lifting the water above the piston as it strokes to State 3.
This suffers from the tyranny of the:  N*X/N2 = X/N problem.
The other problem that you have is that it requires head to support the payload weight.  You have to pick a payload that is less than the initial uplift force, because the uplift force declines steadily towards zero with lift.  If you pick a payload weight that is the same as the uplift force then the thing never moves.  If you pick one slightly less as you propose then it moves only slightly.

 

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