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Author Topic: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED  (Read 432191 times)

Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #615 on: March 06, 2014, 06:34:40 AM »
M., Webby, Mags, Wayne,


MarkE is very good with math, but he was unable to explain the 33.55% excess output of the Zed over the Archimedes, backed up by his math, and tried to squirm out of it with a pathetic unrelated brake example. Do any of you understand why he can't comprehend?


Thanks, Larry

"Do any of you understand why he can't comprehend?"

Oh he does comprehend.  ;)   He is doing his best to discredit the claim by twisting the truth. 8) Thats why.    ;)

Why do you think they are pounding on this so hard?  To try and get the readers to think its a fraud, by any means. Why would they want to do that with such aggression?  8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Suits. ;)     8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)   

Magluvin



Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #615 on: March 06, 2014, 06:34:40 AM »

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #616 on: March 06, 2014, 06:36:07 AM »
Well then, you should have stated that Wayne claims to be able to turn buoyancy on and off, instead of the words "turn gravity on and off. Correct????   But saying that he said that he claims to be able to turn buoyancy on and off, just doesnt sound so bad, does it? ;) You said he claimed to turn 'gravity' on and off, period. And now you twist it to be that you were saying other words instead. 

Here is your words.... "Wayne Travis admits that "gravity is always on".  Yet he claims to be able to switch it on and off"   

Show me the quote that Wayne said it!!!!!!!  ;)

Magluvin
You claimed that I lied.  I did not.  I have shown that I did not.  If you can't comprehend, or simply choose not to comprehend, then you make yourself look ignorant or worse.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #617 on: March 06, 2014, 06:38:53 AM »
"Do any of you understand why he can't comprehend?"

Oh he does comprehend.  ;)   He is doing his best to discredit the claim by twisting the truth. 8) Thats why.    ;)

Why do you think they are pounding on this so hard?  To try and get the readers to think its a fraud, by any means. Why would they want to do that with such aggression?  8) 8) 8) 8) 8)

Suits. ;)     8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)   

Magluvin
Oh pleeease.  Now you are trotting out the old suppression conspiracy?  Really?  How has this alleged conspiracy kept Wayne Travis from delivering on a technology he has long claimed to have?  How has it prevented him from powering his home, his church, his investor's homes and businesses with the claimed invention?  How has it caused him to switch horses multiple times? 

Your play book is rather tattered.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #617 on: March 06, 2014, 06:38:53 AM »
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Offline LarryC

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #618 on: March 06, 2014, 07:16:35 AM »
M., Webby, Mags, Wayne,


MarkE is very good with math, but he was unable to explain the 33.55% excess output of the Zed over the Archimedes, backed up by his math, and tried to squirm out of it with a pathetic unrelated brake example. Do any of you understand why he can't comprehend?


Thanks, Larry


Sorry guys, as I didn't list MarkE's actual post 265# at March 2 at 10:25:41 PM which show his inability to comprehend the 33.55%. Can you explain his ingorance?



Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #619 on: March 06, 2014, 07:21:51 AM »
Oh pleeease.  Now you are trotting out the old suppression conspiracy?  Really?  How has this alleged conspiracy kept Wayne Travis from delivering on a technology he has long claimed to have?  How has it prevented him from powering his home, his church, his investor's homes and businesses with the claimed invention?  How has it caused him to switch horses multiple times? 

Your play book is rather tattered.


Call it what you will. You said it no me. lol. My playbook is just dissecting your posts. And Im finding it a bit tattered as you say. :P ;D

Lets put it this way. With all your 'quality' input here, when will you be done? You entered here uninvited. And thats fine. But its not friendly in the least. And you distort Waynes claims. I have shown that clearly for 9 pages now, and you have not shown 'us' the quote from Wayne that he 'claims' to be able to 'turn on and off GRAVITY'   I Ask for 9 pages now, again and again, and you dodge and weave. And you try to distract the 'readers' here by trying to make me look silly. lol

YOU said it.  Right readers? ;)

YOU dodge the quote requests again and again. And again. Right readers? ;)

You demand quotes from others but deny us of your own.  Right readers?

Now, tell the 'readers' that I am lying.  ::)     Again, you cannot. ;) Because I am telling the truth, unlike you.  ;) The readers know.  ;)   You got nothing on me.  :P ;D And I can stand proud of that. ;)


Show me the quote that Wayne 'claimed' to be able to turn gravity on and off!!!   ::)

You think you can make this just go away. lol Turn that on and off.   ;) You will find that it would be 'extraordinary' if you can accomplish that. Count on it. ;)

I know. You would like me to go away. Well why would you deserve such when you deny these guys of the same of you???  Hmmm?  Am I right readers???  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Magluvin

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #619 on: March 06, 2014, 07:21:51 AM »
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Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #620 on: March 06, 2014, 07:26:58 AM »

Sorry guys, as I didn't list MarkE's actual post 265# at March 2 at 10:25:41 PM which show his inability to comprehend the 33.55%. Can you explain his ingorance?

Hey Larry

Havnt gotten to that post yet. Going back to them as we speak.  Some interesting reading. Taking notes.  ;)   Good stuff. lol

And its not ignorance. He know exactly what he is doing. 8) ;)

Magluvin

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #621 on: March 06, 2014, 07:34:26 AM »

Call it what you will. You said it no me. lol. My playbook is just dissecting your posts. And Im finding it a bit tattered as you say. :P ;D

Lets put it this way. With all your 'quality' input here, when will you be done? You entered here uninvited.
Wrong again.  Mondrasek actively sought help with his analysis.  Help I might add that you have not provided.
Quote
And thats fine. But its not friendly in the least. And you distort Waynes claims.
Nope, I have fairly represented his false claims.
Quote

I have shown that clearly for 9 pages now, and you have not shown 'us' the quote from Wayne that he 'claims' to be able to 'turn on and off GRAVITY'   I Ask for 9 pages now, again and again, and you dodge and weave. And you try to distract the 'readers' here by trying to make me look silly. lol
You are really making yourself look bad here.  But if you suits you to act as you do, then that is your choice.
Quote

YOU said it.  Right readers? ;)

YOU dodge the quote requests again and again. And again. Right readers? ;)
I have reposted my quote.  So once again you are wrong.
Quote

You demand quotes from others but deny us of your own.  Right readers?
Again, I reposted my quote, so you are again wrong.
Quote

Now, tell the 'readers' that I am lying.  ::)     Again, you cannot. ;) Because I am telling the truth, unlike you.  ;) The readers know.  ;)   You got nothing on me.  :P ;D And I can stand proud of that. ;)
Anyone who bothers to read the thread can see that you have been wrong over and over and over again.  It is really quite sad.
Quote


Show me the quote that Wayne 'claimed' to be able to turn gravity on and off!!!   ::)
Asked and answered several times now.  But since you apparently wish to ignore, there is little that will satisfy you.
Quote

You think you can make this just go away. lol Turn that on and off.   ;) You will find that it would be 'extraordinary' if you can accomplish that. Count on it. ;)
If you are declaring your intent to troll, then I suppose if you do it enough you may subject yourself to moderation.
Quote

I know. You would like me to go away. Well why would you deserve such when you deny these guys of the same of you???  Hmmm?  Am I right readers???  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Magluvin
I haven't asked you to go away.  I have advised you that you are behaving very poorly and that reflects badly on you.  It's up to you to decide whether you want to keep behaving as you do or not.  If your posts are representative of the kind of support that the Wayne Travis camp can muster, that's just sad.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #621 on: March 06, 2014, 07:34:26 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #622 on: March 06, 2014, 07:39:51 AM »

Sorry guys, as I didn't list MarkE's actual post 265# at March 2 at 10:25:41 PM which show his inability to comprehend the 33.55%. Can you explain his ingorance(sic)?
LarryC, How about when claiming to refer to a post, why don't you quote it and see if it really says what you claim?  Kindly show me in that post where I demonstrated what you claim?  As far as I can tell you have had difficulty understanding my response.  The pneumatic lifting scheme that you call Archimedes is indeed very inefficient.  So is the scheme you label as ZED.  Wayne and HER/Zydro claim that their scheme is over unity.  Reducing losses is all fine and well, but the scheme you call ZED even by your own analysis is far outperformed efficiency-wise by other far simpler means.  Hence my comment about driving around with your emergency brake applied.

It's funny that almost two years after Kan Shi explained how simpler means outperform the ZED in the hydro differential thread you were very active in, that you still don't seem to understand what either Kan Shi and others explained then or that I have explained recently. 

Quote
Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #265 on: March 02, 2014, 10:25:41 PM »

    Quote

Quote from: LarryC on March 02, 2014, 09:49:46 PM
Quote
    MarkE,


    Added the Integral F*ds for the Archimedes and they also agree with the original spreadsheet results. So we still have a 33.55% efficiency increase for the Zed over the Archimedes that needs to be explained.[size=78%] [/size]


    The majority of people coming to learn about the Zed would not understand your math approach and would think that we were trying to fool them. But they do easily understand concepts like buoyancy, pressure, force, volume, water levels, etc., which can be used in simple easy to understand math formula. A few that come, will like you, insist on Integrating F*ds and now I understand that we need to have that available. So, thank you for the heads up.


    Larry
     

Who cares how much less horrific one scheme is than another?  The HER/Zydro claim is for a gain in energy.  No such gain occurs.  Do you drive your car around with the emergency brake on?  Do you get excited about a huge boost in gas mileage when you release the emergency brake?

Nature doesn't care what any individual may or may not understand.  It's hilarious that you would claim that your convoluted spreadsheet that used dozens of cell formulas in place of a few lines of algebra was constructed to create an easy to follow illustration of your claims.


Offline Magluvin

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #623 on: March 06, 2014, 08:09:10 AM »
Wrong again.  Mondrasek actively sought help with his analysis.  Help I might add that you have not provided.Nope, I have fairly represented his false claims.You are really making yourself look bad here.  But if you suits you to act as you do, then that is your choice.I have reposted my quote.  So once again you are wrong.Again, I reposted my quote, so you are again wrong.Anyone who bothers to read the thread can see that you have been wrong over and over and over again.  It is really quite sad.Asked and answered several times now.  But since you apparently wish to ignore, there is little that will satisfy you.If you are declaring your intent to troll, then I suppose if you do it enough you may subject yourself to moderation.I haven't asked you to go away.  I have advised you that you are behaving very poorly and that reflects badly on you.  It's up to you to decide whether you want to keep behaving as you do or not.  If your posts are representative of the kind of support that the Wayne Travis camp can muster, that's just sad.

 ::) ??? :o ::) :-* and  ::)   Pretty much covers it. ;D   Take not Readers.  Oooo 16,860 reads. Lots of readers in that bunch. ;D ;D ;D

Ok, time for bed. 2am.  And I have a job.  ;)

Magluvin

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #623 on: March 06, 2014, 08:09:10 AM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #624 on: March 06, 2014, 10:00:34 AM »
So, I have corrected my lift distance calculations.  The lift is higher:  2.492mm versus the 1.4688mm I had erroneously calculated before.  The spreadsheet has full auditing of the end forces and volume.  As I have previously explained: the more lift in State 3, the worse the losses are.  The transition from State 2 to State 3 now loses 90.7% of the energy added at State 2.  So, for all intent and purpose, we have a fancy 0.48N/mm spring with a maximum compression of 2.492mm that we can compress by going from State 3 to State 2 and we can release by going from State 2 to State 3.  Woo hoo! 

Get out your pens and pencils boys and girls and try and figure out a way to harvest as high a percentage of the energy expended compressing the "spring" as possible each time it is released.

Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #625 on: March 06, 2014, 11:22:02 AM »
I have advised you that you are behaving very poorly and that reflects badly on you.

..really.. Omgosh

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #625 on: March 06, 2014, 11:22:02 AM »
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Offline mrwayne

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #626 on: March 06, 2014, 11:29:26 AM »
Pencils ready!

Try using this process - and you will see that we do not release the "spring" as you describe.

I will post it again.

 So lets get your states set up, and in order.

...........

Conditions   At least three layers Each ZED:
ZED A Sunk remaining head due to riser weight and any added weight - ZED A  will be the receiving ZED,

ZED B is at the end of delivering a load and in the raised position - and was not allowed to Bob up after the load was removed.

.................

State one - Start with sunk - still head remaining - equal to the weight of the risers - and any additional load. (additional load is sometimes used to reduce time by reducing expansion and contraction during cycles)
p.s. Adding weight is counter intuitive - most people assume adding weight induces losses

Lesson to be learned - trying to achieve Ideal usage results in self determined conservative process.

The next state is post free flow - this is where the other ZED A and B have equalized between the stroked ZED and the sunk ZED. No riser movement in either ZED - only fluid and pressure.

Note: Free flow results in equalized pressure - but not equalized volume.

The next State is changing from Free flow too "precharge"

Full precharge is the end of the state between free flow and enough buoyancy to nuetralize the determined load and no riser movement either ZED.

The process to get to the full precharge state - two inputs are utilized :

One - the continued consumption of pressure from the ZED B - and the hydro assist.

The hydro assist adds enough pressure - that when combined with the exhuast from the other ZED - reaches load neutrality (buoyancy). This is full precharge for ZED A.

Note: ZED B will not sink until the stored head has dropped below nuetrality of the risers and any added weight.

The Hydro Assist continues to be combined with the Pressure from ZED B - the input cost is the differance between the sinking ZED pressure and the stroking pressure required.

The next state is the Production Stroke of ZED A. ZED A stroking and ZED B sunk is the first half of a Dual ZED cycle - the process repeats in the other direction - notice I did not say reverses.

.................

To understand Stroke - you must determine both the proper load and the proper stroke.

The proper load is the lift safely available at the determined end of stroke.

Iterations are helpful..... I will give you a rule of thumb - Do not make the stroke longer than 1/11 the height of the ZED.
(another counter intuitive - short stroke is a more efficient process)

Use your baseline calculator already prepared to determine what the load is at that height - and that is a good load - presuming riser weight and any added weight has already been considered.

.........................

Unlike the states Mark described - the precharge and stroke is only released into the other ZED - not bobbed up or consumed as production.

The transfer of the precharge and Stroke is made mechanically more efficient as Webby described and posted two of our methods.

but you do not need to add those improvements to find the outcome.


.......................

Last notes - when the full precharge is reached - any additional volume input into the ZED A results in production - so once precharge is hit - no consumption of the previous pressure occurs - the ZED B hits bottom at the end of the production stroke on ZED A.

In simple observation - the true cost of a stroke half cycle is all of the Hydro assist - which is also the stroking Pv ZED A, minus the sinking ZED B Pv, and then repeat for a full cycle.

The production cycle is both ZEDS having produced once and combined.

A full cycle is a return of ZED A to "Sunk.   

Lastly - the Hydro Assist can be a external input - or powered by the Production leaving excess. When you determine the cost of the Hydro Assist versus the production - you will understand why I have been so patient.

The Excess or Net per half cycle is no more than the value between the Pv sinking and the production - Not magical - but free.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #627 on: March 06, 2014, 11:31:53 AM »
..really.. Omgosh
Well good morning Wayne.  What do you think about Mondrasek's "ideal ZED" now?  Do you have any new insights into how to make his short travel, linear spring emulating device into an over unity machine?  Can you help out showing where gravity can be modified here to become non-conservative? 

And why is  it that determining the values in this machine is possible as demonstrated without resorting to any iterative calculations?

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #628 on: March 06, 2014, 11:35:04 AM »
Pencils ready!

Try using this process - and you will see that we do not release the "spring" as you describe.

I will post it again.

 So lets get your states set up, and in order.

...........

Useless wall of text.
And why is it useless?  It is useless because nowhere in it does it describe anything that can or will change the behavior of even Mondrasek's idealized device from that of a linear spring to something that can create energy.  If something is passive, it does not create energy.  Adding more instances of passive devices does not introduce anything that produces energy.  But it is nice to see that you are intent on evidencing your scienter.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #629 on: March 06, 2014, 11:59:04 AM »
Step right up and get 10 better than "ideal ZED" devices for less than $12.00!  These devices require no precharge, have no set-up losses, occupy a tiny fraction of the volume of the "ideal ZED", can store more than 10 times more accsessible energy than the "ideal ZED", don't leak, work in any orientation, don't lose fluid to evaporation, and don't corrode themselves with water!  What they have is the same force versus distance constant as the "ideal ZED".  Instead of a fully extended envelope of greater than 69.5mm H x 46mm Dia, these babies are less than 15mm long by 3mm diameter.  IOW they fit in less than 1/1000th the volume of the "ideal ZED" while exactly matching the "ideal ZED" transfer function, without any of the complexity or headaches.  That's right:  They have more than 10,000 times the accessible volumetric energy density as the "ideal ZED".  And did someone mention cycle rate?  The self resonant frequency of these springs is in the thousands of cycles per second.  How fast can a ZED cycle?  All that and they cost less than $1.20 each when you buy 10 at a time and save!

http://www.amazon.com/Compression-Spring-Stainless-Compressed-Capacity/dp/tech-data/B005S4HDZ8

Compression Spring, Stainless Steel, Metric, 2.82 mm OD, 0.32 mm Wire Size, 6.1 mm Compressed Length, 14.2 mm Free Length, 3.91 N Load Capacity, 0.48 N/mm Spring Rate (Pack of 10) Price:    $11.73



 

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