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### Author Topic: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED  (Read 741079 times)

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #525 on: March 05, 2014, 07:57:26 AM »
I really hate to argue with you T.  I respect your knowledge and intellect more than your cohorts. But..   Can you show me a reference to that statement, other than your own?         Please?? You must have a copy ready for cut and paste.

Mags

When you place a buoyant object in water, gravity causes it to sink. As it sinks it displaces water, that makes the level of the water in the outer container, or ocean, rise up a little bit. Gravity pulls down on this water. There are NO OTHER FORCES than gravity happening in buoyancy!  When you lighten the displacing object, gravity makes more water flow UNDER it and it is this increased water UNDER the object that makes it rise up to a new equilibrium point. The whole process is gravity-driven, gravity controlled, gravity is the only force involved. Buoyancy is simply gravity, shifting water around.
Now you can play around with gas pressures like in the Cartesian diver, to change the effective volume of the displacer, but make no mistake: it is gravity and the weight of the displaced water (not the mass this time, the weight) that float your boat or your Zed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buoyancy

#### mrwayne

• Hero Member
• Posts: 975
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #526 on: March 05, 2014, 07:58:59 AM »
Why of course:  Let's discuss that.  Just post a diagram and your math.  Show your energy gain.  Force gain won't cut it.  We need to see you "turn buoyancy on and off at will", and/or gain energy at will.  Are you finally up to the task?

My rule not yours - not your machine... sorry.

Since you have a tiny bit of understanding - I will jump ahead a bit.

P.s. don't tell me if you agree or not - you don't get it - I got that.

When a ZED is sinking - the heads are lower

When the ZED is rising - the heads are higher

RIght, right.

The lower heads result in a concentration of the forces to the middle of the ZED

The higher heads result in a greater distribution of heads.

The result ----the loaded ZED more effectively utilizes the total surfaces

The Sinking ZED uses less surface area

The benefit:

Less pressure needed per pound on the lift.......

Less load to create pressure on the sink........

And the difference between the two...........wait for it - not equal rocks......or Non conservative

RED and I explained this year ago.....

p.s. to save your MATH - if you leave the same load on up and down - it is a rock - or "brick" as you see it.

Not what we do buddy.

#### MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #527 on: March 05, 2014, 07:59:06 AM »
I really hate to argue with you T.  I respect your knowledge and intellect more than your cohorts. But..   Can you show me a reference to that statement, other than your own?         Please?? You must have a copy ready for cut and paste.

Mags
http://physics.j3science.com/images/d/db/Buoyancy_Summary.pdf

Quote
Buoyancy Summary
Fb = p*V*g
•p is the density of the displaced fluid
•V is the volume of displaced fluid
g is the acceleration of gravity
•That is, Fb is equal to the weight of the displaced fluid.
...

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #528 on: March 05, 2014, 08:02:46 AM »
What I said, gravity is the only force involved.

(People are gonna see that "rho" for density and think it's a "p" for pressure, just watch.)

#### MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #529 on: March 05, 2014, 08:03:01 AM »
My rule not yours - not your machine... sorry.
So you can't demonstrate turning buoyancy on and off after all, can you?
Quote

Since you have a tiny bit of understanding - I will jump ahead a bit.

P.s. don't tell me if you agree or not - you don't get it - I got that.

When a ZED is sinking - the heads are lower

When the ZED is rising - the heads are higher

RIght, right.

The lower heads result in a concentration of the forces to the middle of the ZED

The higher heads result in a greater distribution of heads.

The result ----the loaded ZED more effectively utilizes the total surfaces

The Sinking ZED uses less surface area

The benefit:

Less pressure needed per pound on the lift.......

Less load to create pressure on the sink........

And the difference between the two...........wait for it - not equal rocks......or Non conservative

RED and I explained this year ago.....

p.s. to save your MATH - if you leave the same load on up and down - it is a rock - or "brick" as you see it.

Not what we do buddy.
So where have you turned buoyancy on or off?  Shifting weights around does not alter the principle of buoyancy.  Let's see you describe something that can be verified where buoyancy is active one moment, and is not active the next.

#### minnie

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1244
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #530 on: March 05, 2014, 08:06:17 AM »

Hi,
Wayne the most likely thing you'll ever do with gravity is to talk up a
hot air balloon .
Have you ever answered my yes/no question?
I've no idea what you're supposed to be doing because you're not making
any headway, after all this time you've shown nothing!
John.

#### mrwayne

• Hero Member
• Posts: 975
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #531 on: March 05, 2014, 08:07:47 AM »

Hi,
Wayne the most likely thing you'll ever do with gravity is to talk up a
hot air balloon .
Have you ever answered my yes/no question?
I've no idea what you're supposed to be doing because you're not making
any headway, after all this time you've shown nothing!
John.

I am sorry minnie,

I am confused,

which of the topics I offered did you want to talk about?

Thanks

#### Magluvin

• Hero Member
• Posts: 5884
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #532 on: March 05, 2014, 08:10:25 AM »
How much would you like to bet?

You do understand that buoyancy is the acceleration due to gravity acting on a fluid displacement, don't you?

You act as if there were no water or atmosphere, that gravity and buoyancy coexist still.  Buoyancy can be an effect due to gravity, but it is not gravity itself.  It is just a result of certain conditions  affected by gravity.

Again, you are dodging the question. Show me the quote from Wayne that he states that he can turn 'gravity' on and off.

So far, I won that bet. Pay uP sucka!!!  lol    Classic dodging.  And typical.

Mags

#### mrwayne

• Hero Member
• Posts: 975
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #533 on: March 05, 2014, 08:10:42 AM »
So you can't demonstrate turning buoyancy on and off after all, can you?So where have you turned buoyancy on or off?  Shifting weights around does not alter the principle of buoyancy.  Let's see you describe something that can be verified where buoyancy is active one moment, and is not active the next.

I am sorry Mark,

You must have me confused with TK,

I turn Buoyancy off and on the same way anyone does - just faster - so much faster..

Thanks

#### mrwayne

• Hero Member
• Posts: 975
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #534 on: March 05, 2014, 08:14:52 AM »
What I said, gravity is the only force involved.

(People are gonna see that "rho" for density and think it's a "p" for pressure, just watch.)

Your talking to the Guru of buoyancy TK, Honestly - if you can not see the allocation of differential density in our system - and the ease at which we effect them.

Better stop lecturing me.

#### MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #535 on: March 05, 2014, 08:14:53 AM »
You act as if there were no water or atmosphere, that gravity and buoyancy coexist still.  Buoyancy can be an effect due to gravity, but it is not gravity itself.  It is just a result of certain conditions  affected by gravity.

Again, you are dodging the question. Show me the quote from Wayne that he states that he can turn 'gravity' on and off.

So far, I won that bet. Pay uP sucka!!!  lol    Classic dodging.  And typical.

Mags
Buoyancy is the acceleration due to gravity restricted to the fluid states of matter.   Would you like to spin again?

#### mrwayne

• Hero Member
• Posts: 975
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #536 on: March 05, 2014, 08:16:04 AM »
Buoyancy is the acceleration due to gravity restricted to the fluid states of matter.   Would you like to spin again?

double dodge

#### MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #537 on: March 05, 2014, 08:16:58 AM »
I am sorry Mark,

You must have me confused with TK,

I turn Buoyancy off and on the same way anyone does - just faster - so much faster..

Thanks
Oh so you are feigning ignorance.  I get it.  When you say you can switch buoyancy on and off what you really mean is that you can expend work to eject or take on ballast just like people have known how to do for 2000 years.  I was under the mistaken impression that you were claiming that you could actually do something unique.

#### MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #538 on: March 05, 2014, 08:18:32 AM »

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #539 on: March 05, 2014, 08:19:44 AM »
Your talking to the Guru of buoyancy TK,
I was not addressing you, Travis, and Mags knows my history and knows that if I say I can demonstrate something... I really can do it. You? Not so much.
Quote
Honestly - if you can not see the allocation of differential density in our system - and the ease at which we effect them.
HONESTLY? You have got to be kidding me. Thou hypocrite, I spew you from my mouth like the drink of lukewarm Zed leakage that you are.
Quote
Better stop lecturing me.
Or what, you big bully? Are you going to shoot a spitwad at me? Fail to mention me in your prayers? STOP THREATENING ME.