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### Author Topic: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED  (Read 716811 times)

#### mrwayne

• Hero Member
• Posts: 975
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #255 on: March 02, 2014, 09:33:00 PM »
Let's see you reconcile those two quotations from you, Travis.

Dear Sir,

If you would like an answer to your last 100 posts - look to the answers I gave the first five times you asked them.

I always look for good in people -  your supposed issues - show you have imagination.

I found it a sad day when I had to accept that this Zed invention was not in your field of expertise.

..........................

To summarize all of our time together:

This is not your invention, you do not understand it, and your aversions and accusations only implicate your obvious  purpose.

..........................

Feel free to read and learn - or go to a thread where you have expertise and can add to the conversation.

Wayne

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #256 on: March 02, 2014, 09:38:28 PM »
TK,  MarkE and I are currently working through the analysis of a SINGLE ZED that is composed of THREE LAYERS.

Then it should be trivially easy to show that it is "Clearly overunity by itself". Travis has told us that a single ZED is overunity, and when they are put together they are even more so. I'm not making this up, HE SAID IT.

Travis, you have nothing to worry about from me. All you have to do is to SHOW US THE SAUSAGES. But you cannot, and neither can your paid employee LarryC, whose spreadsheet has been found to be so error-ridden and false that it really makes it hard to believe that he has the engineering expertise that he claims.

Consider how trivially easy it would be to SHUT ME UP AND PROVE ME WRONG, if only you had what you claim to have had years ago.

And you still aren't answering minnie's question, nor are you answering mine, but then... I knew you wouldn't. And you lie baldly and transparently when you claim to have answered the questions I have been asking. What happened to the 50 kW unit you promised to install 3 months after receiving funding? Didn't you get enough? But you have said you are FULLY FUNDED. But I happen to KNOW that there is no 50 kW self running powerplant over at TBC. SO WHY NOT? If you have answered and I missed it, I apologise. Please provide a direct link to your answer. If you have NOT answered it.... then you are exposed once again to have lied to me.

#### LarryC

• Hero Member
• Posts: 911
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #257 on: March 02, 2014, 09:49:46 PM »
MarkE,

Added the Integral F*ds for the Archimedes and they also agree with the original spreadsheet results. So we still have a 33.55% efficiency increase for the Zed over the Archimedes that needs to be explained.[size=78%] [/size]

The majority of people coming to learn about the Zed would not understand your math approach and would think that we were trying to fool them. But they do easily understand concepts like buoyancy, pressure, force, volume, water levels, etc., which can be used in simple easy to understand math formula. A few that come, will like you, insist on Integrating F*ds and now I understand that we need to have that available. So, thank you for the heads up.

Larry

#### MileHigh

• Hero Member
• Posts: 7600
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #258 on: March 02, 2014, 09:55:07 PM »
I think that Wayne drops in once in a while to try to do some damage control.  He desperately wants this this thread to create the illusion that the Zed is real and his company is real for the true hard-core rabid believers.  Hence he himself, Red_Sunset and LarryC always try to imply that everything is real with their cynical manipulative use of the English language.  Where else could Wayne possibly get money?  It's only from the hard-core rabid believers with deep pockets.  Think of the people that built replications of the Mylow "motor."  There was one wealthy person that was paying a machine shop to build his replication.

There is gold in them thar hills and Wayne wants that gold.

I will repeat again, I am so creeped out by his fake quasi North Korean "Leader" persona mixed in with the all of the religious jargon and fake preaching.  Big Wayne is going to give you sausages and soothe your soul.  Eeeeek!!!

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #259 on: March 02, 2014, 10:02:32 PM »
MH: somewhat earlier you (iirc)  linked to a movie called "Split Image" about a person who got caught up in a cult and was rescued by his family and deprogrammer. I enjoyed that one a lot, and I've found another one that's perhaps even more gripping, as it clearly shows the brainwashing techniques used by cults... and it is portraying the early Moonies under a thin disguise.
Ticket to Heaven:

#### mondrasek

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1301
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #260 on: March 02, 2014, 10:06:09 PM »
I think that Wayne drops in once in a while to try to do some damage control.  He desperately wants this this thread to create the illusion that the Zed is real and his company is real for the true hard-core rabid believers.

MH, I disagree.  From what I can tell, Mr. Wayne drops in to encourage us to finish the Mathematical Analysis.  I have done mine.  I was surprised.  I asked for a double check.  And I still wait for that double check to be completed.

You, or anyone else, are welcome to perform a double check.  Now that MarkE has performed and presented his analysis right up to the final step(s), and I have confirmed that his results conform to my own, you could skip those steps and just pick it up from there.

The results I have found, if corroborated by anyone, would definitely require a triple, and even a quadruple check!

#### TinselKoala

• Hero Member
• Posts: 13958
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #261 on: March 02, 2014, 10:09:34 PM »
MH, I disagree.  From what I can tell, Mr. Wayne drops in to encourage us to finish the Mathematical Analysis.  I have done mine.  I was surprised.  I asked for a double check.  And I still wait for that double check to be completed.

You, or anyone else, are welcome to perform a double check.  Now that MarkE has performed and presented his analysis right up to the final step(s), and I have confirmed that his results conform to my own, you could skip those steps and just pick it up from there.

The results I have found, if corroborated by anyone, would definitely require a triple, and even a quadruple check!

So you must be building away in secret then, so that you will be the FIRST actually to show on a real system, more output work than input work, and a real self-runner. Certainly nobody on Travis's payroll can do that much.

And let's not even mention the little incident involving calculations that brought you and me together in the first place, shall we?

#### MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #262 on: March 02, 2014, 10:13:04 PM »
I agree with your analysis through State 2.  Everything adds up exactly as I also found.

I utilized the same analysis method for the output rise as was used for the input of the water charge:  F*ds as expressed for the case of a Volume of a Fluid that is being moved by a change in Pressure that either starts or ends at zero:  Paverage*V.  The riser initially will want to move with a Pressure that can be calculated from the buoyant force sum of the pod and risers.  That Pressure should drop linearly to zero as the ZED reaches equilibrium at the end of the rise.  The physical device that would restrain the initial Pressure and allow it to drop to zero while performing the rise is not important for the analysis I think.  Please let me know if you think otherwise.
It all depends on what one wishes to determine.

1) Since we agree that there is no energy gain going between State1 and State2, we have established that the "ideal Zed" you have set-up can only do something that you find interesting by buoying the risers and pod.

2) The risers and the pod have zero mass, so no energy is gained by their increase in height.

3) Buoyancy force is just acceleration due to gravity operating on fluids.

4) Gravity acts conservatively on any mass independent of state:  solid, liquid, gas, plasma.

5) Now that you are using the integral of F*ds, you know that as soon as we release the risers, that the stored energy will go down.

Do you agree with all of that or not?

#### MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #263 on: March 02, 2014, 10:15:46 PM »
Great Work Mark E and Monderask.

You have worked thru the Math to properly analyzed the "Ideal charge"

That deserves a victory Lap for the Math so Far - well done.

Again - Great work thru the first step.

Note to Mark, "Ideal charge" is great for Monderask's question.

It is incorrect to use that state of a ZED or Marks stated operation as any conclusion, you have one wheel on the Gravity Wagon so far..Smile

p.s. Don't feel bad - almost every engineer jumped to your conclusion - you will get it soon.

Wayne
Engineers "jumped to your conclusion".  You are a hoot.  The seemingly effortless way that you continue to shamelessly keep suggesting that you have something behind your tattered curtain is really awesome.

#### MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #264 on: March 02, 2014, 10:19:29 PM »
To All,

The drawing all lend confusion to our process.

Non show a static load - we used Hydraulic resistance as the load - above the risers.

This resulted in a state where the charge to lift a load is balanced - once buoyancy to load neutral  is reached - any additional input resulted in overcoming the resistance and resulted in stroke and output.

Also important to understand - at the end of the desired stroke - a mechanical stop is used to keep the precharge and stroke input from being released.

In effect - the load was removed during stroke, and then the precharge and stroke input recaptured.

As Webby described - we invented several methods to improve the value of that re use of the precharge and stroke input.

- The Video Mark Dansie took - we recaptured 57% of the input. (was our first  three layer ZED system)

This resulted in a simple input reduction to the over all process.

The comparisons to a Hydraulic cyclnder - which Larry has shown - is for one simple realization.

When we configure the ZED to upstroke loaded - with the same or better value than a simple hydraulic cylnder - and then re-use any portion of that input - the result is a input reduction.

Just as Fletcher described.

Our design requires three layers to be equal to or better than a Hydraulic cylinder.

The seal less jack comparison - with resuse is simple and clear - it continues to surprise me - that the men who slander me - won't see that.

............

Larry and Mark have agreed that a single layer and pod system is in the 60%'s area, I agree.

Watch what happens when you add two and then three - you can stop at three if you like - but you do not have to. smile

............

It took three minutes to realize the value of the ability to recycle input in a ZED system......... no magic, no fuss, no agenda.

Just good hard work.

Wayne
Wayne Travis you do not speak for me.  Larry's spreadsheet remains broken.  The analysis above shows that there is no gain to be had with the serpentine piston.  As soon as we release the device, we lose energy that we paid.  There is no sign of over unity.  There are only losses.

#### MarkE

• Hero Member
• Posts: 6830
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #265 on: March 02, 2014, 10:25:41 PM »
MarkE,

Added the Integral F*ds for the Archimedes and they also agree with the original spreadsheet results. So we still have a 33.55% efficiency increase for the Zed over the Archimedes that needs to be explained.[size=78%] [/size]

The majority of people coming to learn about the Zed would not understand your math approach and would think that we were trying to fool them. But they do easily understand concepts like buoyancy, pressure, force, volume, water levels, etc., which can be used in simple easy to understand math formula. A few that come, will like you, insist on Integrating F*ds and now I understand that we need to have that available. So, thank you for the heads up.

Larry

Who cares how much less horrific one scheme is than another?  The HER/Zydro claim is for a gain in energy.  No such gain occurs.  Do you drive your car around with the emergency brake on?  Do you get excited about a huge boost in gas mileage when you release the emergency brake?

Nature doesn't care what any individual may or may not understand.  It's hilarious that you would claim that your convoluted spreadsheet that used dozens of cell formulas in place of a few lines of algebra was constructed to create an easy to follow illustration of your claims.

#### LarryC

• Hero Member
• Posts: 911
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #266 on: March 02, 2014, 10:32:08 PM »
Wayne Travis you do not speak for me.  Larry's spreadsheet remains broken.  The analysis above shows that there is no gain to be had with the serpentine piston.  As soon as we release the device, we lose energy that we paid.  There is no sign of over unity.  There are only losses.

MarkE,

Where is it broken now? You've proved that our Engineering calculations that you been saying were wrong, are correct, as they match your Integral F*ds calculations.

#### mondrasek

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1301
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #267 on: March 02, 2014, 10:43:13 PM »
It all depends on what one wishes to determine.

1) Since we agree that there is no energy gain going between State1 and State2, we have established that the "ideal Zed" you have set-up can only do something that you find interesting by buoying the risers and pod.

2) The risers and the pod have zero mass, so no energy is gained by their increase in height.

3) Buoyancy force is just acceleration due to gravity operating on fluids.

4) Gravity acts conservatively on any mass independent of state:  solid, liquid, gas, plasma.

5) Now that you are using the integral of F*ds, you know that as soon as we release the risers, that the stored energy will go down.

Do you agree with all of that or not?

MarkE, I agree with all of it except for your statement #5.  And that is because I have done the math and did not find those expected results for this unique construction (ZED).  I would fully have expected your statement to hold true due to my training and experience (and knowledge of history).  But I could not find the classical expected result to present itself.  And so I did, and still do, ask for a double check of the analysis of this 3-layer ZED model.

#### mrwayne

• Hero Member
• Posts: 975
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #268 on: March 02, 2014, 10:56:04 PM »
I think that Wayne drops in once in a while to try to do some damage control.  He desperately wants this this thread to create the illusion that the Zed is real and his company is real for the true hard-core rabid believers.  Hence he himself, Red_Sunset and LarryC always try to imply that everything is real with their cynical manipulative use of the English language.  Where else could Wayne possibly get money?  It's only from the hard-core rabid believers with deep pockets.  Think of the people that built replications of the Mylow "motor."  There was one wealthy person that was paying a machine shop to build his replication.

There is gold in them thar hills and Wayne wants that gold.

I will repeat again, I am so creeped out by his fake quasi North Korean "Leader" persona mixed in with the all of the religious jargon and fake preaching.  Big Wayne is going to give you sausages and soothe your soul.  Eeeeek!!!

Lets score:

People who independently built ZED's and then analyzed to understand the system - are trying to share with the ones that would rather not.

And you have what to offer?

..........................................OK

Got it.

Wayne

#### mondrasek

• Hero Member
• Posts: 1301
##### Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #269 on: March 02, 2014, 10:57:51 PM »
So you must be building away in secret then, so that you will be the FIRST actually to show on a real system, more output work than input work, and a real self-runner. Certainly nobody on Travis's payroll can do that much.

TK, I see no reason why you keep making things like this up, and stating them in the form of a fact that you will repeat as true unless some "proof" is given that they are false.

And let's not even mention the little incident involving calculations that brought you and me together in the first place, shall we?

TK, you can bring up the "mondrasek wheel" (please Google it if you want to see it everybody) anytime you please.  But it appears you are trying to "shame" me for a mistake from my past, rather than discuss the Mathematical Analysis.  And you have tried that before.  And the last time you did so I think I was open and transparent about what happened during that occasion as well.  So why the thinly veiled threat again?  I openly admit I made a mistake then and that you were instrumental in helping me realize that fact.  I have thanked you multiple times for helping me to find the error in what first brought me to OU.com and "Energy research" in the first place.  So, what of it?