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Author Topic: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED  (Read 403895 times)

Offline Marsing

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #2295 on: April 20, 2014, 08:35:31 AM »
That's the problem with science. It only applies to 'known' and 'observable' phenomena.
So as long as wayne doesn't demonstrate his alleged gravity cheating plumbing scheme, it's checkmate, bro. 
/s
 ::)

Imagine, if they both work together

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #2295 on: April 20, 2014, 08:35:31 AM »

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #2296 on: April 20, 2014, 05:15:09 PM »
But I did find a bunch  of free work that could be done,, and I reported on that as well,, 90% lift and all that left inside is what I reported on,, actually it was better than that but TK decided to have an issue with my numbers,, so I backed down on what I measured, reasonable errors are reasonable,, so a 10% reduction in output to input to cover those errors.
I have never seen any data from you that suggests you obtained unity or better results.  If you think that you did, then like anyone else making an experimental claim you are free to: detail the experiment set-up, measurement methods, null experiments, measurements and any data manipulation performed to reach your conclusions.  Your descriptions need to sufficiently detailed to allow any reasonably competent experimenter to reproduce the observations you claim to have made.
Quote

Now, yet again you are stating things as if they were fact, which they are not they are your opiniion.
I have no idea what "things" you mean.  Evidence is evidence.  As far as I am aware you have not offered any for your extraordinary beliefs.
Quote

You keep calling me names,, by your definition that is the last and weakest form of attack,, that is your definition there Mark.
I keep observing that you resort to logical fallacies, and that you profess support for a fraud.  Those are observations.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #2297 on: April 20, 2014, 08:01:33 PM »
This is true enough,, you are making an observation and providing your opinion on that.  However, your use of logical fallacies needs to be qualified so as not to represent a fact,, but reflect that it is your opinion.
Show what logical fallacy or fallacies you claim that I employ.
Quote

Just because something has not been observed before, are you stating that then there is nothing new that can be observed?
Once again you are making an argument from ignorance. 

You have offered no evidence that supports Wayne Travis' free energy or alteration of the conservative nature of gravity claims.  Neither has anyone else.  We have voluminous evidence that supports the accepted position that gravity is conservative and none that opposes it.  You are certainly free to explore whatever you like.  You will never have an argument until you have evidence.  And that you do not have.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #2297 on: April 20, 2014, 08:01:33 PM »
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Offline minnie

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #2298 on: April 20, 2014, 08:32:23 PM »



   Webby,
              what are your thoughts on where does the "bunch of free work" originate?
                                                           John.

Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #2299 on: April 20, 2014, 09:28:19 PM »
But I did find a bunch  of free work that could be done,, and I reported on that as well,, 90% lift and all that left inside is what I reported on,, actually it was better than that but TK decided to have an issue with my numbers,, so I backed down on what I measured, reasonable errors are reasonable,, so a 10% reduction in output to input to cover those errors.



You found "a bunch of free work"?  Where is it?  Have you demonstrated this free work?  Can you?

When you argue (or at least attempt to) with Mark you are always demanding that he show you that this will not work WHEN in fact, this is an open source free energy website and, as we all should know by now, those making these fantastic claims are the ones that need to prove what they claim is true.  Not the other way around as you so often attempt to try to do.

So, given your above quoted statement, where is the proof of this claim?  Videos?  Math?  Please do not ask poor Mark to prove (again and again) that this is not true....you need to prove that it is as it it YOU that made this claim.

I will be waiting but, I am not hopeful.  Your quoted statement will be on here forever.  You made it.  Now, back it up or admit that there is nothing here at all.  Otherwise, we can all draw our own conclusions about your claim.  Every one that reads this topic in the future can do this also.

So..."A bunch of free work."  Show it, explain it or please quit making claims that you can not back up.

Bill

***ETA*** The word please.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #2299 on: April 20, 2014, 09:28:19 PM »
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Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #2300 on: April 20, 2014, 10:11:29 PM »
I did that in the first thread on this topic.  So this question has been answered by me already,, several times actually.

ummmm...No, you didn't because you can't.  Saying that you did does not make it true.

Oh, and that bumblebee story is, and has been a well known myth in science.  A myth is something that is not true.  Please do a little research and you will see this is correct.  I learned this way back in one of my college physics classes back in the 70's.

So, again I ask, where is all of this free work?  Since you can't answer this question I suppose it means that there is not any free work, which, is something we all knew all along.

Thanks for confirming this for the record.

Bill

Offline minnie

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #2301 on: April 20, 2014, 10:27:36 PM »



  Not a good analogy. Everyone with any sense knew a bumblebee could fly, because they saw it.
  Now, show us a ZED working, or a perpetual fountain or waterfall and folk will start to believe!
  Buoyancy is extremely well understood, it is involved in the very deepest of the oceans to the
  limits of the atmosphere. People doing research in these areas have to work it out in advance
  and it seems to conform to what is known.
      The answer is simple, show working proof.
                                              John.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #2301 on: April 20, 2014, 10:27:36 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #2302 on: April 20, 2014, 10:35:36 PM »
Actually YOU need to show mine since YOU are making that claim about me.  I understand that reading comprehension may not be your strong point,, but "needs to be qualified" about sums it up there Mark.
Go look up argument from ignorance.
Quote

Here again you are making a false claim.
Evidence?  No you never have evidence.
Quote

You have inferred, and also ignored, that if it has not been observed then there is nothing to observe.
What "it"?  Something that is not evidenced does not weigh against that which has evidence. No one has shown any evidence in support of Wayne's claims.
Quote

That sounds like  YOU think YOU know all there is to know already.
You just keep going around in the same circles:  You want to believe something extraordinary so it is up to others to disprove it to your satisfaction.  Keep burying your head.  Keep playing the fool.  See where it gets you.

Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #2303 on: April 20, 2014, 10:38:06 PM »
I did that in the first thread on this topic.  So this question has been answered by me already,, several times actually.
I ahve never seen anywhere that you have shown evidence in support of Wayne's claims.  As to your own experiments, when I asked you for data, you said you lost your notebooks and could not provide it.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #2303 on: April 20, 2014, 10:38:06 PM »
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Offline Pirate88179

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #2304 on: April 20, 2014, 11:02:52 PM »
I ahve never seen anywhere that you have shown evidence in support of Wayne's claims.  As to your own experiments, when I asked you for data, you said you lost your notebooks and could not provide it.

Mark:

Ah, the old "lost notebooks" ploy.  That is almost as good as the "I signed an NDA so I can't show any evidence" ploy.  Stefan should add a line to the TOS for this website that demands that anyone who makes a free energy claim must show proof, and NOT demand that others de-bunk it.  Otherwise, TK's unicorn in his backyard might be eligible for the OU prize.

Bill

Offline minnie

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #2305 on: April 20, 2014, 11:26:17 PM »



   Yes you really do need the heel biters, if there's no one to keep the silly thing on
   the page it'd just disappear, like Travis himself!
        Of course he hasn't got anything that works, you can rest assured that he would
   have told us if he had.
                     John.

Free Energy | searching for free energy and discussing free energy

Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #2305 on: April 20, 2014, 11:26:17 PM »
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Offline MarkE

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #2306 on: April 20, 2014, 11:28:13 PM »
Yes Mark, look it up,, here try this instead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance

It describes your argument very well.
If you want to keep playing yourself as a fool, no one here is going to stop you.
Quote

Go read the first thread,, then I will accept your apology.
If you have evidence of OU or a violation of the conservative nature of gravity, then just point to it.
Quote

As I told you the information was posted in the first thread.
What information would that be Tom?
Quote

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/flight-bumblebee

Try this for a reference,, and see if the lower portion does not ring a bell with what has transpired here,,
Unless you are trying to make free energy with bumble bees, you are off in the bushes.
Quote

In a community people are supposed to work together, to help, but in this one it seems a few have decided that they must be the caretakers of everyone else.  They alone have the ability and knowledge of all things to determine what is and what can not be, and then you get those that jump on the bandwagon just to have fun.
You support the fraudulent claims of a con man with no evidence on your side.  Why should you expect that reasonable people will not challenge such idiocy?
Quote

I found the knowledge that Mark did share to be interesting and useful, his opinions and self righteous attitude not helpful at all,, then there are the heal bitters,, what are they supposed to be doing??
You are making subjective judgements of how oh so unfair it is that in order to take any extraordinary claim seriously, I first require strong evidence.  If that offends a desire of yours to engage in magical thinking, then so be it.
Quote

So,, I have posted information I gathered, I have shared what my thoughts are on that collected data and I have shared what I think that means or shows.
To the best of my knowledge you have not shown any data that suggest any support for Wayne's free energy claims or his gravity altering claims.
Quote

Anyone else here built a 5 layer system?
The more important question is:  Has anyone, including you produced any objective evidence that supports Wayne's claims as you espouse to support them?
Quote

Go ahead and keep saying I did not post anything, go ahead and keep saying that because it has not been observed by mainstream science or some big named scientist that it can not be real,, go ahead and keep your heads in the sand,, if not stuck somewhere else.
Do you understand how science works?  Do you understand the scientific method?  If you do, why are you so angry about it?
Quote

Hey Bill,, Wayne started the first thread with the full understanding that not all information was going to be shared,  that was with Stefan as well
Wayne has made a mockery of himself as have his supporters.  None have come up with a single iota of evidence in favor of his idiotic and completely false free energy from buoyancy claims.  And that includes you Tom.

Offline minnie

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #2307 on: April 21, 2014, 09:58:58 AM »



    Webby,
              do you believe a ZED could work?
    Please just answer yes or no.
    Travis himself was unable to answer a yes or no question.
                           John.

Offline TinselKoala

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #2308 on: April 21, 2014, 03:03:35 PM »
Careful! Honest Wayne Travis has asked the NDA signers not to discuss the True and Holy Zed any more!

You can only discuss the lesser, pseudoZeds that are proven mathematically not to work. They are endorsed by the Zed Priesthood as being correct models, up until all the kinks are worked out of the math. Then when the math is all correct and it's impossible to claim that the models could work, it is revealed from on high that the models aren't really like the True and Holy Zeds at all..... Honest Father Wayne was just joking around with you, since he cannot reveal the actual operation of the True and Holy Zed and can't show any working model. The Law, and the agreements he has made, prevent it!

Many people believe all kinds of utterly crazy things. That doesn't mean it's true.

Offline minnie

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Re: Mathematical Analysis of an Ideal ZED
« Reply #2309 on: April 21, 2014, 04:09:22 PM »



   I assume anyone under NDA wouldn't be using this forum in connection
   with ZEDs.
        I have done some experiments with "virtual water" and results are
   what could be expected from Archimedes.
         My see-saw calculations are very disheartening as well. I've got my
   pencil out again to examine possible transfer pumps.
                    John.

 

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