Author Topic: Statorless Generator, no field magnets (Read 17666 times)

Cadman · « **on:** February 10, 2014, 07:18:24 PM »

I had an interesting idea IMO, and one I intend to test. It just sort of popped into my head when I wasn't even thinking about such things.

You have seen the videos showing how the magnetic field in a round bar magnet does not rotate when the bar is spun on its axis, haven't you?

I wonder if a copper wire were to be wound in a N-S fashion progressing around a bar magnet and always staying in one pole, say the N pole of the bar, if it would generate a current as the bar magnet was spun. The coil would look sort of like the stator winding in an automotive alternator, but wound right onto the bar. I can see the coil wires being cut by the stationary magnetic field lines as the bar turns.

Wouldn't that be a hoot? A generator that only has an armature?

Would it be affected by lens, and be harder to turn as the rate of spin increased?

How much current could it produce, if any?

Ha ha, if that part works then a whole bunch of those coils on the perimeter of a rotor face would generate power as the rotor turned too.

This can't work, it's too simple.

totoalas · « **Reply #1 on:** February 10, 2014, 11:01:52 PM »

electric experiments by robert33 yt shows rotor / winding powered by ac on each side of the bearings or rotor itself
with dc supply a magnet is placed near the rotor like one used in vacuum machine

Magluvin · « **Reply #2 on:** February 11, 2014, 01:50:09 AM »

Hey Cad

Ive done some experiments on this. I believe its the same concept.

It is said that the Faraday dynamo, a U magnet and a spinning copper disk, produces current in the disk. But then when substituting the U magnet for a disk magnet, and, rotating the disks, magnet disk and copper disk together, the copper disk still produces current.

But what I have found is, if using separate magnets in place of the solid disk/ring magnet, the flux moves with each magnet, where the solid ring, the flux does not rotate with the ring magnet.

Below is a pic of my version of what should have made current in the coil by just moving the structure as a whole through the air or space. But it doesnt. I tried a few different versions.

Mags

Farmhand · « **Reply #3 on:** February 11, 2014, 03:07:41 AM »

Cadman that certainly is an interesting idea, gotta be worth a try. Certainly can't hurt to give it a whirl. I gotta ask the question, did you think of how you would take the current from such a rotating coil, it would require slip rings.

Although I think the Faraday "dual disc opposing rotation" generator designed by Tesla is the pinnacle of Faraday disc generators. With the currents taken from both shafts, no need to have a contact to much faster velocity peripheral edge. However I don't think he used one to power any of his experiments, which makes me wonder, why not, the only reason I can think of is that the voltage is so low the transformation up to the High tensions we require would incur substantial losses.

As a low voltage high current supply for a DC electro-magnet it could be useful.

Cheers

Neo-X · « **Reply #4 on:** February 11, 2014, 06:52:40 AM »

Quote from: Cadman on February 10, 2014, 07:18:24 PM

I had an interesting idea IMO, and one I intend to test. It just sort of popped into my head when I wasn't even thinking about such things.

You have seen the videos showing how the magnetic field in a round bar magnet does not rotate when the bar is spun on its axis, haven't you?

I wonder if a copper wire were to be wound in a N-S fashion progressing around a bar magnet and always staying in one pole, say the N pole of the bar, if it would generate a current as the bar magnet was spun. The coil would look sort of like the stator winding in an automotive alternator, but wound right onto the bar. I can see the coil wires being cut by the stationary magnetic field lines as the bar turns.

Wouldn't that be a hoot? A generator that only has an armature?

Would it be affected by lens, and be harder to turn as the rate of spin increased?

How much current could it produce, if any?

Ha ha, if that part works then a whole bunch of those coils on the perimeter of a rotor face would generate power as the rotor turned too.

This can't work, it's too simple.

Interesting idea, i will try this if i a have time. If this produce current it will really confirms that the magnetic field is stationary.

Neo-X · « **Reply #5 on:** February 12, 2014, 08:28:29 AM »

Does anyone know an actual experiment similar to this? I really like to know what is the result of the experiment.

hanon · « **Reply #6 on:** February 13, 2014, 03:00:17 AM »

Quote from: Cadman on February 10, 2014, 07:18:24 PM

You have seen the videos showing how the magnetic field in a round bar magnet does not rotate when the bar is spun on its axis, haven't you?

Hi Cadman,

Could you provide the link to that experiment? I can not guess what you are refering to

Thanks

Cadman · « **Reply #7 on:** February 13, 2014, 10:50:08 PM »

Hi Guys,

Totally tied up with my everyday job right now...

@totoalas
Thanks for the tip, roobert33 has some very interesting videos indeed.

@Mags
It makes sense that the disk magnet would produce current. Lots of variations to try on this theme. I think that disturbing the field of a round bar magnet in any way by drilling holes in it, adding a frame or machining smaller end shafts on it will ruin the field effect. Just a theory at this point, we'll see.

@Farmhand
Yes, this is definitely a low volt high amp target, if the idea is viable. Slip rings on the shaft, at least for initial tests. BTW, In my eyes this has little to do with Faraday's disk.

@ Neo-X
As far as I can tell this is an original idea. So you guys get in on the ground floor.

@hanon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWO7O5hvzWE Check out the larger disk towards the end of the vid

@all
Making some progress. The mag wire has arrived (good grief that stuff is expensive!!). I have some N52 neos from my magnetic motor that I intend to use to magnetize a 1" dia. 1018 steel bar for the shaft but still need to improvise or purchase some bearings and slip rings. It will be driven with a Goldmine 12V motor that is on hand.

Hopefully I'll have something this weekend if I'm lucky. I'll still be surprised if this actually works.

Neo-X · « **Reply #8 on:** February 14, 2014, 02:08:56 PM »

Quote from: Cadman on February 13, 2014, 10:50:08 PM

@ Neo-X
As far as I can tell this is an original idea. So you guys get in on the ground floor.

In this fast few days i was thinking on this and i realized this was the same as the faraday disc generator. Assuming that the magnetic field is rotating as the magnet rotate, the external circuit cuts the magnetic field thus generating voltage in the output. In the case where the magnetic field is stationary, the rotating coil attached to the magnet cuts the magnetic field. So either theory will produce current but neither can explain why it doesnt produce back torque.

Cadman · « **Reply #9 on:** February 15, 2014, 10:38:04 PM »

A progress report, for anyone interested.

The first coil is a 5 pole made out of poster board and wound with 400 ft of #24 magnet wire, 9.2 ohm. The winding is N-S along the axis, all in the same direction from one pole to the next, like this VVVVV. Every other layer criss-crosses the previous one so 2 layers look like XXXXX.

Surprisingly the generator concept seems to be valid, but I made a mistake in the build. The steel shaft did not magnetize well and to make a long story short, it was weak and the bloch wall ended up being slightly off center of the coil windings instead of at one end. I think this caused the opposite ends of the coil to mostly cancel each other out, but it did produce 1.4 vac @ 1300 rpm which is encouraging.

My thoughts at this point are to replace the shaft with a non-magnetic one, hollowed out on one end to insert half of a N42 neo into the coil winding. That should fix the bloch wall problem and tells us if this idea is worth pursuing any further. If it is, I may try winding a coil like a dc motor, one complete pole at a time.

That's all for now.

Cheers

Neo-X · « **Reply #10 on:** February 16, 2014, 08:49:28 AM »

Quote from: Cadman on February 15, 2014, 10:38:04 PM

A progress report, for anyone interested.

The first coil is a 5 pole made out of poster board and wound with 400 ft of #24 magnet wire, 9.2 ohm. The winding is N-S along the axis, all in the same direction from one pole to the next, like this VVVVV. Every other layer criss-crosses the previous one so 2 layers look like XXXXX.

Surprisingly the generator concept seems to be valid, but I made a mistake in the build. The steel shaft did not magnetize well and to make a long story short, it was weak and the bloch wall ended up being slightly off center of the coil windings instead of at one end. I think this caused the opposite ends of the coil to mostly cancel each other out, but it did produce 1.4 vac @ 1300 rpm which is encouraging.

My thoughts at this point are to replace the shaft with a non-magnetic one, hollowed out on one end to insert half of a N42 neo into the coil winding. That should fix the bloch wall problem and tells us if this idea is worth pursuing any further. If it is, I may try winding a coil like a dc motor, one complete pole at a time.

That's all for now.

Cheers

I see another great mistake here. You might thinking that the coil will generate a higher voltage than the tube. But if you think carefully you will realized that the tube and the coil will generate the same voltage. I know it was confusing but at first im also think the same. Also you should not criss-crosses the coil as the generated voltage will cancel in each other.

Cadman · « **Reply #11 on:** February 17, 2014, 05:32:34 PM »

Quote from: Neo-X

I see another great mistake here. You might thinking that the coil will generate a higher voltage than the tube.

Tube? I'm confused. What tube are you referring to? All I have is a magnetic shaft with a coil on it.
And point noted about the coil winding. Thanks.

Neo-X · « **Reply #12 on:** February 18, 2014, 01:36:21 AM »

Quote from: Cadman on February 17, 2014, 05:32:34 PM

Tube? I'm confused. What tube are you referring to? All I have is a magnetic shaft with a coil on it.
And point noted about the coil winding. Thanks.

Im comparing the copper tube and your coil will produce the same voltage like the copper dics and spiral pancake coil will also produce the same voltage. You only increases the resistance of the circuit by using a coil so its much better to use a copper disc or a tube than a coil.

Cadman · « **Reply #13 on:** February 18, 2014, 04:54:24 PM »

Is this just theory of yours or are you building a device to test? That would be excellent.

My thinking may be all wrong but if the design succeeds in generating significant electricity then there are further possibilities to explore with coils. The first test was supposed to be a single wave winding, which I screwed up by using 5 poles instead of 6. The next will be a proper wave winding and if that works then there is the possibility of having 3 coils to generate 3 phase, and that can be rectified to dc with a minimum ripple if desired.

Underlying this whole idea is a generator that would not require more power to drive as the load increases from 0, only the power needed to overcome the mechanical losses from rotating the armature and the friction of the brushes.

Neo-X · « **Reply #14 on:** February 19, 2014, 06:12:50 AM »

Quote from: Cadman on February 18, 2014, 04:54:24 PM

Is this just theory of yours or are you building a device to test? That would be excellent.

My thinking may be all wrong but if the design succeeds in generating significant electricity then there are further possibilities to explore with coils. The first test was supposed to be a single wave winding, which I screwed up by using 5 poles instead of 6. The next will be a proper wave winding and if that works then there is the possibility of having 3 coils to generate 3 phase, and that can be rectified to dc with a minimum ripple if desired.

Underlying this whole idea is a generator that would not require more power to drive as the load increases from 0, only the power needed to overcome the mechanical losses from rotating the armature and the friction of the brushes.

It was based on from what i read on other experimenter and from my own opinion.

Like you im also making a high voltage lenzless generator but first im trying to figure out how can i remove the back torque so im experimenting on faraday disc generator hoping to break the secret. From what i understand you like to a make coil on wave a pattern but how it can help to remove the back torque?

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Author Topic: Statorless Generator, no field magnets (Read 17666 times)

Cadman

Statorless Generator, no field magnets

totoalas

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