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Mechanical free energy devices => mechanic => Topic started by: dieter on February 05, 2014, 11:01:08 PM
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Hi everybody.
I'd like to discuss the possibilities in turning on and off a permanent magnet in general.
It turned out, the inability to do that is the main problem of many PMMs. So what we need is the "egg of columbus".
Let's list the options we're already aware:
(they all seem to require an external energy to do the "turn off" job, not sure about the close-loop deflection tho.)
-Electric Magnet impulse in opposite polarity.
-Heating up over Curie Temperature
-Mechanicly/dynamicly move away pm or iron.
-Mechanicly/dynamicly "shield" pm field
-close-loop pm with an external, deflecting pm or pm chain.
Any further ideas?
Thanks.
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Do I get this right, a stack of magnets, you mean like:
__/ the slash pm could be set free by __/____ ?
If so then that's about what I meant by close-loop deflection. The stack will lower the attraction of the slash pm, but is the the attraction of the stack the same if the slash is once removed, or will it be higher?
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Here' an other one: cooling the magnet dynamicly will result in a similar imbalance as we need it. By cooling I mean liquid nitrogen cool. So, eg. if the rotor would dip the pm into liquid nitrogen in the right moment, it may be much more pushed away than it was when it was getting closer to the stator pm before. hmmm... Would that heat up the nitrogen, Of course, but would we be back at zero energy gain? Well, by conventional physics, some flying insects are unable to fly, so...
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Also rather interesting is the behaviour of a thin needle to a PM. When it points to the pole (in the field direction) then it has a very low attraction. when you turn it, attraction increases. How about a block of needles.
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I have seen so very many attempts of this kind. Many researchers have limited the scope of their vision by focusing all attempts at producing continuous motive force. So much so, that it seems as if the way forward is purposely blocked to them due to singular vision. Perhaps instead, seek not to block or "turn off" a magnetic field, but roll with it's nature and find merely novel ways of producing field "changes", such as well timed field compressions/decompressions. One may leverage these in such a way as to isolate the magnet or ferrous material that is causing the perturbations, keeping it from getting caught in the fray.
Here is but one simple example:
Take a fairly large ring magnet, axially magnetized, and touch another magnet, also axially magnetized, at a right angle to it's periphery. If one were to move that 'satellite' magnet in a circle, orbiting the larger ring magnet....how much friction is experienced?
There is a 'Cheap Twist' to this simple experiment....
Somewhere.
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Ain't got no axially magnetized ring magnets here, so, what's this twist thing please?
Time compression? Move away? These methods all have the same problem: No matter how fast something is moved, Attraction Force remains the same. Inertia cannot cancel out the field. In fact, turning the field off is the point of interest.
We may consider Victor Schauberg's theorem about the egg in a stream, that by its shape can neutralize the streams force and float on place, being a forceless, static object.
What if this or something similar works not only in water, but also in a magnetfield?
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Ain't got no axially magnetized ring magnets here, so, what's this twist thing please?
Talk is cheap. But then, so are ring magnets.
TS
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Dieter, stored energy actuators have canceled permanent magnet flux for many, many years. Before LASER printers took over the world better quality impact printers used stored energy actuators. A permanent magnet would act as the spring. To release the spring and print a dot, a coil would be energized that canceled the flux from the permanent magnet.
Soldering irons of various different designs have also used the Curie temperature to regulate tip temperature.
The challenge is coming up with a way to turn off and restore the flux in a closed cycle that consumes less energy than can be harvested from the flux change. No one seems to have found a way to do that.
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The challenge is coming up with a way to turn off and restore the flux in a closed cycle that consumes less energy than can be harvested from the flux change.
Momentary PM field impingement via counter field EM pulse is hardly "turning off" the field. Call it "field change" or "field fluctuation", what have you, but it is a misleading generalization to imply that the PM field is being turned off and then restored.
Examine the work of Howard Johnson at depth. How many field fluctuations may one decipher in his examples?
And all at little to no cost....
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Momentary PM field impingement via counter field EM pulse is hardly "turning off" the field. Call it "field change" or "field fluctuation", what have you, but it is a misleading generalization to imply that the PM field is being turned off and then restored.
Examine the work of Howard Johnson at depth. How many field fluctuations may one decipher in his examples?
And all at little to no cost....
Techstuf, yes: In precise terms we are adding fields together. We are manipulating the net flux that passes through a reluctance path we choose. The same is true with multiple windings on a core whether or not they are layered or multi-filar. The superimposed fields still appear as one net result to an observer. The person paying the power bill finds out the difference between a source that "has been turned off" and one where the field has been canceled to some extent with an opposing field.
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Hi everybody.
I'd like to discuss the possibilities in turning on and off a permanent magnet in general.
It turned out, the inability to do that is the main problem of many PMMs. So what we need is the "egg of columbus".
Let's list the options we're already aware:
(they all seem to require an external energy to do the "turn off" job, not sure about the close-loop deflection tho.)
-Electric Magnet impulse in opposite polarity.
-Heating up over Curie Temperature
-Mechanicly/dynamicly move away pm or iron.
-Mechanicly/dynamicly "shield" pm field
-close-loop pm with an external, deflecting pm or pm chain.
Any further ideas?
Thanks.
Any further ideas?
Ruger Super Blackhawk, 6 magnum hollowpoints, dont initiate your experiment near unprotected bystanders, and, not where it could burn your house down.
Hey, Jack, I'm not joking. Dont start something you cant finish.
Let me splain. Suppose your invention really does work and, out there in Open Source, some angel picks it up and manufactures it and sells them like wildfire. And further suppose that a typical rich person manufacturer does not know used beans about Physics and simply perfectly follows your sketches on the back of an envelope. Your information must have some kind of an absolutely fail-safe escape mechanism, perhaps a brute force solution, to perfectly guarantee that your lovely device will never ever be responsible for injury, death, or property loss.
CANGAS 12
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Of course, by "turning off a PM " I meant to neutralize, compensate or whatever is required in order to eg. reduce the attraction for a moment. And of course the goal is to do that in a free way. I don't say OU, because we may use any source of energy that can be tapped for free, eg. athmospheric pressure changes. Sunlight or Wind etc. is out of question or let's say is covered by the simple creation of an opposing e magnetfield listed initially.
I am more interested in micro-macro coupling of spins, also probably manifested in certain geometry, as in Schaubergs works about streams. Another sample for macro coupling of nuclear spins is the vortex of a kitchen sink, that is oriented to the earths axis. So quantum theory and special materials with extraordinary features like eg. high diamagnetism may be interesting. Graphite is highly diamagnetic and may cause the same kitchen sink vortex torque or spin in relation to gravity and magnetfield, where the magnetfield of a pm can be a catalysator, compared to the one of the earth. Well, interesting anyway.
When I tried to transmute graphite powder to steel by shocking it with 30vdc, it became partially highly diamagnetic, so particles would jump away from a PM several Millimeters, not shure if the unshocked powder performs the same way.
BTW Cangas, did you by accident type in the wrong browser tab? Looks more like a Gunnie thing, or what was that bizzare thing about? Looks like, some scientists discuss magnetical properties, when suddently somebody opens the door and yells "Pepper!". Please explain.
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You really need an "explain"?
OU would not work like normal everyday reactions that are often damped before they can become runaway. Or very violent.
Do you really need it to be explained to you how a genuine OU activity will be beyond the purview of conventional Physics to predict and therefore its safe containment cannot really be predicted?
CANGAS 13
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You mean it will run faster and faster and finally explode?
Well thanks for the warning, but this is known. Besides, I,d be glad to overcome the mechanical losses and if required it wouldn't be so hard to slow it down, certainly easier than to prevent a certain mass of plutonium to instantly melt down...
What I am trying to say is: I would like to see contributive postings, like ideas on how to "turn off a permanent magnet for a moment". Thanks for understanding. I would also like to discuss Graphite in this context, is there anybody with experience regarding Graphite, or pyrolytic graphite, and most promising in terms of diamagnetism: diamonds! And also the sink vortex phenomen, that is definitely a magnetical thing, due to earth axis alignement, (that it spins in the other direction on the southern hemisphere).
Anybody?
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I was not going to mention this because I have not yet fully confirmed what was going on but I will try to explain it anyway.
Thinking that maybe a large thin magnet may shield some force of the interaction of two magnets by letting them get close before they exit the large magnet, I found the poles that attract seem to travel through the large magnet and thus the idea did not work.
I then thought that maybe two large magnets opposing each other could solve the problem, but still the attracting side to the large magnets seem to reach into the center of the two and repel the other approaching magnet.
So now the strange part:
In the emulator, I placed a very thin iron sheet between the large repelling magnets hoping to short the smaller two approaching magnets and let them ignore each other until they reached the mid point. Then I found this huge attracting force from that very thin sheet of .001" thick iron.
It seems the thin iron sheet directs the compressed field between the two large magnets with a huge force but the iron sheet itself is too thin to be but attracted with little force.
So at this time, it seems possible that one could direct a very large force by rotating that very thin iron sheet within the compressed field of two large magnets.
I've had this on a back burner for some time now so I thought this a good time to throw it out there.
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The mechanical force is a function of the flux density and the perpendicular cross-section that the flux penetrates. You get low force by:
Having low net flux density normal to the material or
Small area
There are lots of ways to get low flux density: Low absolute field from one source. Low net field from multiple sources (such as by cancellation), large reluctance gap, low permeability material (including due to saturation)
Small area is usually just from the feature sizes. But it can also result from orientation.
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There are lots of ways to get low flux density: Low absolute field from one source. Low net field from multiple sources (such as by cancellation), large reluctance gap, low permeability material (including due to saturation)
Certainly. Yet, history is littered with so many failures down that road, as low flux densities produce no energy, while consuming energy to change their condition. The energy required to change flux path direction while maintaining HIGH flux density has proven to be worthwhile in a number of impressive devices over the years.
Howard Johnson
Qin Gang
Stephen Kundel
To name just a few.
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Since the thin sheet is centered between two circular magnets and is in a constant field, it takes no energy to rotate. When an external magnet is near and the exposure is limited to the very thin edge of the metal.
Though the idea is the attraction through the two large magnets. No attraction where there is no metal and attraction where there is metal. Where the attraction is greater than just the metal itself.
Still, keep in mind this is the simulator and it's only a concept at this point.
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BUZZ!!!
WOW, STRANGE ARTEFACT !!! This could be my lucky day! Tho, yet to be verfied:
I took a paper and on that paper I had some graphite powder, maybe a tablespoon of it. I was shaking the paper gently, so the powder would spread somewhat.
Then I took a magnet pretty strong one from a huge 20 Mb Harddrive (when it comes to magnets from harddrives: the older the bigger the better, anyway).
I moved the magnet under the paper to see the diamagnetism when I made this amazing observation:
When I moved the magnet forward (away from me) and back, some graphite went always away from me!!! That means, when I was getting closer to that certain crumble from the distance, it was attracted, but ad soon as the magnet passed by, it was repelled, when I moved it the other way, its behaviour was reversed !!!!!!!! I even angled the paper, so the crumble had to travel upward, and it did!
Orientation in Space may play a role.
I don't have to explain you, that this would allow for a perpetual Spin! And some Nanotubes made of carbon may have extreme diamagnetism values.
I had to hold the magnet in a certain angle to the paper, maybe 45 degree, otherwise it wouldn't work.
Gotta verify this... So can you!
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BTW. thanks for your replies. Lumen, this reminds me of my experiments with needles, in my amateur llingo called oversaturation.
Hope you don't mind, but ATM I have to study this graphite phenomen.
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Update: Asymmetriy on certain field angles persists, Graphite has then a tendency to travel in a certain direction, regardless of magnet position.
Also, diamagnetic reaction of powder is very jumpy, nonlinear and in a strange way time-delayed. This may have something to do with the phenomen described before. It may even be the cause.
Forces involved are tiny, so probably not such a big deal.
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...Graphite has then a tendency to travel in a certain direction, regardless of magnet position...
hi dieter
interesting observations!
i recently learnt something about graphite, too
i was experimenting with a suspended magnet (making a 'driven' pendulum), and was adjusting the coil position below the magnet using an ordinary graphite pencil...
the magnet turned towards the pencil and was obviously attracted by the graphite in the pencil
i tried a few pencils and they all produced the same behaviour
however, in my case the graphite appears to be magnetic, rather than diamagnetic
good luck with your researches!
best wishes
np
http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.co.uk (http://docsfreelunch.blogspot.co.uk)
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The pencil graphit may contain iron impurities. But, I have to say, I also experienced the same: a bit of graphit powder, on the surface of some water, was attracted to the a magnet clearly! Weird: it was attracted when the pm was closer than a certain distance , like about 1/2 inch, but was slightly repelled when furter away.
I am working with graphite from a stirring rod for precious metal melting pods, from ebay, that I thought was pretty pure graphite, tho I ain't got any % Numbers.
I made s few more experiments. I failed to get that powder on water rotating using the said magnet angle, even with soap to neutralize bonding tension of the water surface to the beaker.
I also tried a pendulum made of a graphite cylinder, diameter about 1/2", height maybe 2/3". It shows interesting features, when exposed to the magnet and finds its equilibrium rest much later that without the magnet, at least it seems so. But no rotation. I may try a surface that has an angular asymmetry in diamagnetic "response", like in a vertical wind wheel, although that doesn't work with ferromagnetism. But Diamagnetism does really have some special features.
I do however have to say, forces are tiny, and the anomaly that made me "BUZZ!!!" before was performed with my hands, which is no good test condition, and when working with powder, the diamagnetism might be interferred by static electricity fx significantly.
So for now, I leave this graphit phenomen as yet to be fully investigated, but very tiny in energy density.